If not the Consensus of Experts, Who ought we Trust?

[boatsnguitars]

If there is a consensus among experts on an issue, should we - presumably non-experts - provisionally accept their view?
If not, how do you come to a provisional belief about something that you don't know anything about it?

For example, should a person who hasn't heard of Jesus accept that the consensus of experts that Jesus most probably was a real person?
Should we accept the vast majority of Climate Scientists on Climate Change? (Or should we reject Environmentalism because it's all about the money, unlike - I guess - the oil industry....)
Should we accept the consensus of doctors on Covid, or listen to our Aunt who read in her tea leaves and claims the vaccine is so the Gub'm'n't can track us?
If you were to take an airplane, would you want someone who has passed a series of tests proctored by experts, or someone who claims to know how to fly on Faith?

The Bonus Question is: How do you know if someone is an expert on God or the Supernatural? What can we test them on? If they can quote their Holy Text?

[brunumb]

In the UK we have just had to close many of our schools, just at the beginning of the new year curriculum, because specialised surveyors have decided that the concrete used in building construction at such premises is dangerous and risks sudden collapse. This is a major calamity because thousands of pupils must continue their studies in separate premises until the situation is resolved.

Maybe these specialised surveyors are not the experts people think they are.

Well I expect that they are efficient, because it was those people who have discovered this problem, but here is an excellent example of why it's not a good idea to trust in claims if the only information that can be given about the claimant is that s/he is 'expert'....... a totally sham introduction, whomsoever is being introduced.

How do we know that these specialised surveyors have got it right?

[oldbadger]

How do we know that these specialised surveyors have got it right?

Perfect question! I see that you're getting things more clearly.
I don't! These specialised surveyors may be as inexact as the buffoons who used RAAC concrete in buildings all those years ago.

You're getting there!

All those mistakes that get made every hour, day, year and decade........by people who were trusted to make the correct decisions at the time.

Now you try and sell me some idea or other because 'experts' have told you! ........ That's as dodgy as some theist trying to tell me that some god or other told them something.

[brunumb]

All those mistakes that get made every hour, day, year and decade........by people who were trusted to make the correct decisions at the time.

Now you try and sell me some idea or other because 'experts' have told you! ........ That's as dodgy as some theist trying to tell me that some god or other told them something.

We make decisions based on the knowledge and information available at the time. They are not necessarily mistakes. We rely on people with expertise in the relevant areas. What other choice is there? People on platforms like TikTok are making stupid claims all the time, and others are accepting those claims as valid based on nothing more than popularity and gut feeling. Give me experts, those with years of experience and qualifications, any day.

[oldbadger]

We make decisions based on the knowledge and information available at the time. They are not necessarily mistakes. We rely on people with expertise in the relevant areas. What other choice is there?

You should not grasp to your beliefs because an 'expert' made claims. That's like some kind of religion or cult.
I've told you that a single person out of a whole class of specialists can be right, and so if you try to sell or buy an idea because 'they all agree' then that's a poor guide.

Tell us who these people are, what they do, what they found ..... much better.

People on platforms like TikTok are making stupid claims all the time, and others are accepting those claims as valid based on nothing more than popularity and gut feeling. Give me experts, those with years of experience and qualifications, any day.

Sweeping claims like that about TikTok are meaningless. 'People' can make stupid claims on any platform.
It looks like you deserve to follow 'experts'........ but don't make fun of people who believe in religions....... they've been around for ages, not years.

[brunumb]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #74]

You know what, I really have no idea what point you are making.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to oldbadger in post #74]

You know what, I really have no idea what point you are making.

I think this is where I'm at, too. I like OB, but in this case I can't understand his reasoning.

He seems to dislike the word "expert" despite recognizing that some people know more than others. To support this, he seems to believe that some people who claim they are experts aren't actually experts, but they are "experts" (as in, not experts).

I wonder if he dislikes the word 'expertise', too?

Not to belabour this, but if a school collapsed, it may have been the contractor not using the right concrete, or not letting it cure properly, etc.

His position seems to be, "The "experts" messed up, therefore, experts don't exist. We know this because the people who studied the issue are really good at their job and can determine the facts due to their expertise in the subject matter. But they aren't experts because I don't call them experts, but if you call them an expert, they are suddenly not experts and they are now "experts".."

That's about all I can divine from this..

[Clownboat]

Samson had the LORD on his side. The Philistines worshiped manmade idols. Who had the greatest power?

I would assume the powers were equal. Why would anyone assume that one god concept is greater than another?

YOU ASSUME.

YOU FAILED to debate again and why are we using all caps?
It seems that you would prefer that I pretend know that which I don't. When it comes to the gods, we can either admit that we lack knowledge if they exist or not, or ASSUME that they do exist.
So I ask again... Why would anyone assume that one god concept is greater than another?

[LittleNipper]

Samson had the LORD on his side. The Philistines worshiped manmade idols. Who had the greatest power?

I would assume the powers were equal. Why would anyone assume that one god concept is greater than another?

YOU ASSUME.

YOU FAILED to debate again and why are we using all caps?
It seems that you would prefer that I pretend know that which I don't. When it comes to the gods, we can either admit that we lack knowledge if they exist or not, or ASSUME that they do exist.
So I ask again... Why would anyone assume that one god concept is greater than another?

Why should I debate the obvious? If the idols of the Philistines were equal with that of Samson, they would NOT have been killed by Samson. It certainly wasn't a draw!

[boatsnguitars]

Samson had the LORD on his side. The Philistines worshiped manmade idols. Who had the greatest power?

I would assume the powers were equal. Why would anyone assume that one god concept is greater than another?

YOU ASSUME.

YOU FAILED to debate again and why are we using all caps?
It seems that you would prefer that I pretend know that which I don't. When it comes to the gods, we can either admit that we lack knowledge if they exist or not, or ASSUME that they do exist.
So I ask again... Why would anyone assume that one god concept is greater than another?

Why should I debate the obvious? If the idols of the Philistines were equal with that of Samson, they would NOT have been killed by Samson. It certainly wasn't a draw!

Maybe he cheated?

[Clownboat]

Why should I debate the obvious? If the idols of the Philistines were equal with that of Samson, they would NOT have been killed by Samson. It certainly wasn't a draw!

Idols hold power now? Can you show that you speak the truth because this is not something I am aware of? Where did the Philistine idols get their power from and what was this power able to do?

Is that how you determine which god concept is greater than another, by the power of their idols? This is all pretty weird...