I've listened to this debate several times over the years, it was broadcast by the BBC on radio a great many years ago.
Its a debate on the existence of God between two very respected intellectuals, Bertrand Russel and Frederick Copleston. Each of these men wrote a comprehensive history of philosophy and were well versed in philosophy, logic, history and so on, they were well matched.
What is striking is that neither party ever gets personal, they focus entirely on their opponents arguments, no petty insinuating, snide remarks or disparaging words.
Fr. Frederick C. Copleston vs Bertrand Russell
If you prefer to skip the introductions and go right to the debate use this link.
Fr. Frederick C. Copleston vs Bertrand Russell - No Intro
So the question - why do so many debates in the Science and Religion area often end up getting personal and stray away from the pure hard logic of the topic itself?
Can we debate respectfully?
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Re: Can we debate respectfully?
Post #71[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #1]
The O.P. title asks: "Can we debate respectfully?" Given that there are numerous long-time posters here who have never or rarely received any Moderator Comments/Warnings, the clear answer is yes, it is possible. Some of these posters identify as theists. Some as non-theists. Some don't identify as either. What is the common denominator? They are folks who treat other posters civilly and with respect. That's the key to debating respectfully.
Tcg
The O.P. title asks: "Can we debate respectfully?" Given that there are numerous long-time posters here who have never or rarely received any Moderator Comments/Warnings, the clear answer is yes, it is possible. Some of these posters identify as theists. Some as non-theists. Some don't identify as either. What is the common denominator? They are folks who treat other posters civilly and with respect. That's the key to debating respectfully.
Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Not believing isn't the same as believing not.
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I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.
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Re: Can we debate respectfully?
Post #72Well said.
Yes we can debate respectfully and constructively, if we so chose to, regardless of what position we hold, be that atheist, theist or other.
Yes we can debate respectfully and constructively, if we so chose to, regardless of what position we hold, be that atheist, theist or other.
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Re: Can we debate respectfully?
Post #73Woops, the claim I have been dealing with is still not rational.We_Are_VENOM wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:12 pm Woops, you failed to comprehend that the tangent I went off on was part of my case that the persecution allegations are rational.
JFK's fears were not irrational. Unlike the claim that the moderator balance here is unfairly balanced.
Sound a bit like a persecution complex. We all ruffle the feathers of others, likely on a daily basis. Some humans feel more persecuted for it then others.I acknowledge that when you ruffle the wrong feathers, you end up like JFK, MLK, Jesus Christ, Abraham Lincoln, Malcolm X.
per·se·cu·tion com·plex
noun
an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.
If it will help to foster good debate, then yes.Would you like this list to go on and on and on with people who weren't like by someone and was dealt with accordingly?
Obviously, I never claimed that it was. Nice straw man though.In other words, your experience ain't the next man's experience.
If anyone still believes that the moderator balance is not equal here, they have an irrational belief.
JFK's belief addressed here was not irrational and therefore is a terrible example and does nothing to do away with the idea that a persecution complex could be going on here.
I myself attended a church that claimed if we were not being persecuted in our lives for our Christian beliefs, then we were not being good Christians. They encouraged us to have a persecution complex. Thankfully, I have been set free from said belief and acknowledge that some others may still suffer from such an idea.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.
I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
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I blame man for codifying those rules into a book which allowed superstitious people to perpetuate a barbaric practice. Rules that must be followed or face an invisible beings wrath. - KenRU
It is sad that in an age of freedom some people are enslaved by the nomads of old. - Marco
If you are unable to demonstrate that what you believe is true and you absolve yourself of the burden of proof, then what is the purpose of your arguments? - brunumb
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Re: Can we debate respectfully?
Post #74[Replying to Clownboat in post #73]
[Is this Evidence re the dynamic of Persecution Complex?]
Would you say that someone suffering from this complex would behave irrationally and eventually attract punishment on themselves for breaking rules [not treating others respectfully/being civil], which in turn would strengthen the complex in the individuals mind, as the punishment is then interpreted by the individual to being evidence that the persecution is in fact, real?I myself attended a church that claimed if we were not being persecuted in our lives for our Christian beliefs, then we were not being good Christians. They encouraged us to have a persecution complex. Thankfully, I have been set free from said belief and acknowledge that some others may still suffer from such an idea.
[Is this Evidence re the dynamic of Persecution Complex?]
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