Life in Our Anti-Christian World

[questioner4]

http://www.infidels.org/misc/humor/lioaca.html

I'm certainly glad this has finally been brought out into the open. The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached absurd proportions. Consider:

1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that Christians should not be considered patriots or real American citizens.
2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at local churches.
3. Both major political parties are dominated by anti-Christians. The Republican party, for example, gave us such hardcore atheists as Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the Democrats have given us such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther King and the Rev. Jesse Jackson both noted for their vicious attacks on all forms of Christianity.
4. Let's talk about the media. On Sunday mornings, nearly all major television channels broadcast pro-atheist shows; it is nearly impossible to find religious programming during that time period. Further, Madalyn Murray O'Hair has her own cable TV channel, while Pat Robertson has been unable to obtain one for himself.
5. Most major newspapers run a special weekly section devoted to Atheism. There are no equivalent sections for religious news.
6. Anti-Christian shows such as the American Atheist Forum are broadcast by major national networks. Meanwhile, Billy Graham is only able to get on the air through public access TV, which is watched by few people.
7. On news programs and "reality" TV shows such as Rescue 911, nobody is ever shown giving thanks to God after surviving a disaster.
8. It is almost impossible to find a shopping mall with a Christian Armory book store, while Atheist Book Centers are featured prominently on every corner.
9. While atheist couples who marry rarely have any difficulty finding a place to do so, it is nearly impossible for Christian couples to find a church where they can marry.
10. For that matter, churches themselves are extremely rare, while atheist meeting centers can be found every few blocks.
11. Recently, several atheists have shot and killed Christian priests as they were going to work in their churches. Similarly, atheists are well-known for blockading churches on Sunday mornings.
12. Nearly all of our elected public officials are atheists; they even have to swear on a copy of Darwin's "Origin of Species" in order to take office.
13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy of the Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have even been court cases thrown out because one of the jury members was a Christian who insisted on swearing on a Bible.
14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry, but those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants to work will be politely told to remove the jewelry or lose their job.
15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it nearly impossible to get time off work for religious holidays such as Christmas.
16. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian bias that pervades our society. For example, when somebody sneezes, most people say "Darwin bless you." Similarly, "Voltaire dammit!" is a common cussword.
17. All of our money has the atheistic slogan "We do not trust in God" printed on it.
18. In school, our children are made to recite the pledge, "One nation, anti-God, indivisible...."
19. One cannot rent a hotel room without finding a copy of Nietzsche's The Anti-Christ in the room.
20. Organizations such as the Boy Scouts deny membership to Christians.
21. In the military, it is nearly impossible to obtain Conscientious Objector status for religious reasons, even though those with philosophical reasons can obtain C.O. status relatively easily.
22. Christian churches are forced to pay exorbitant taxes.
23. You can't drive anywhere without seeing a Darwin fish or a "Jesus Was A Fraud" bumper sticker stuck to a car.
24. Georgia recently passed a new law requiring schools to have a "moment of noise" during which children are encouraged to degrade Christianity.
25. College campuses usually have dozens of atheist organizations, but few if any for Christians.
26. There are several well-known atheist campus preachers who lecture on college campuses on the virtues of Atheism. 27. Also common on college campuses are groups of students handing out copies of Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A Christian"; some even force people who don't want these books to take them.
28. Campus newspapers often print editorials extolling the virtues of Atheism.
29. People look at you funny and wonder if there's something wrong upstairs if you admit to being a Christian in public.
30. Many Christians are afraid to admit their Christianity to their parents and friends, for fear their kin will consider them immoral Christian scum and want nothing to do with them.
31. At presidential inauguration ceremonies, Madalyn Murray-O'Hair (that well-known friend of several presidents) gives a short pro-Atheism speech.
32. For decades, high school and college commencement ceremonies have included brief speeches at the beginning and end of the ceremony in which Atheism is praised and Christians deemed irrational. Christians who object to the practice, or who ask for an opening prayer instead, are regarded as cranks at best and subversives at worst.
33. Not only do commencement ceremonies feature pro-atheist speeches, there's usually an entire two-hour ceremony the day before graduation dedicated to upholding the atheist foundation of our educational system.
34. "There are no Christians in foxholes" is a popular slogan in our society.
35. Most hospitals are full of atheist symbols, and many prominently feature statues of Nietszche, Darwin, and so forth.
36. Communities set up atheist brainwashing facilities, and apply social pressure to citizens to report to these facilities every Sunday morning. Furthermore, attendees are expected to contribute money to support these facilities, and to build others through "outreach" programs.
37. Most parents in America indoctrinate their children at an early age to be atheists by forcing them to attend these brainwashing sessions, whether they want to or not.
38. While atheists hold huge rallies in 25,000-seat amphitheaters, Christians are so few in number that they can only dream of holding such rallies.
39. At baseball games, you can often spot people carrying signs that read "Origin Of Species, page 34."
40. Hospital waiting rooms usually come equipped with children's copies of Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History Of Time," complete with order forms so that parents can send off for their own copy.
41. Atheist magazines such as "Atheism Today," "Today's Atheist Woman," "Atheist Homeschooler," "The Atheist Century," "Atheist Ministry," "The Atheist Archeological Review," "Atheist Parenting Today" and "The Atheist Science Monitor" are featured prominently in newsstands across the country.
42. The Fellowship of Atheist Athletes has local chapters on college campuses throughout America.
43. According to recent Gallup polls, approximately 86% of Americans do not believe in God.
44. Politicians often refer to America's "Agnosto-Atheist heritage" when trying to woo voters.
45. Atheists are beginning to subvert the American political process. For example, the American Atheists recently published over thirty million voter's guides for distribution at atheist meeting-houses. These guides gave specific instructions not to vote for those who oppose atheist values.
46. It's easy to buy checks with quotes from Thomas Paine, but almost impossible to buy checks with Bible verses on them.
47. Businesses often refuse to admit that they are Christian-owned and operated, for fear of being boycotted by their atheist customers. Meanwhile, atheist-owned businesses often feature Darwin-fish logos in their ads.
48. There are large networks of atheistic private schools in America, while it's nearly impossible to find a private Catholic school.
49. It's difficult to find people with good Christian names like John or Paul or Christopher.
50. Most gravestones in America are engraved with pentagrams; those few graves which are engraved with crosses usually end up being vandalized.
51. Atheists have often invented "deathbed deconversion" stories about famous Christians, claiming they became atheists just before they died.
52. Around the time of Darwin's birthday, Christians have to put up with songs about Darwin, which are played in shopping malls, restaurants, and even public restrooms.
53. We number our calendar years according to the number of years that have passed since Darwin's birthday. (Hence the term "A.D" "After Darwin.")
54. Christian gatherings and funerals are often disrupted by atheists shouting slurs and holding signs that read, "Nature hates Christians."
55. Books which promote Christianity are often removed from library shelves in response to atheist pressure groups.
56. A popular bumper sticker reads, "No Jesus, Know Peace. Know Jesus, No Peace."
57. Insurance companies refer to natural disasters as "Acts of Darwin."
58. Forms for job applications, government aid and so forth often ask what type of atheist you are, with checkboxes for "Atheist," "Agnostic," "Humanist" and so forth. If you are a Christian, the only thing you can do is check the "other" box if one is provided.
59. Sports teams often read from the Humanist Manifesto prior to the game, in the hopes that doing so will increase their chances of winning.
60. Atheists constantly threaten television and movies producers with boycotts whenever they portray Christianity in a positive light.
61. Atheists often hold bonfires at atheist meeting centers, where Christian literature can be thrown into the fire.
62. Gambling is freely legalized for secular purposes, yet churches have to have their bingo halls in Las Vegas, Atlantic City or on Indian reservations.
63. Baseball games and the like have "The Star-Spangled Banner" sung by hard-rock groups bellowing out lyrics such as, "Foolish god-crazed slaves (whip crack), At the altar of Rock and Roll you'll kneel!" and the singers will encourage any Christians in the stands to get eaten by lions held ready on the playing field.
64. New military officers are expected to say "God does not exist" at the end of their commissioning oath.
65. It easy to support atheistic charities like, "Atheist Children's Fund," "Agnostics Against AIDS," etc., but virtually impossible to support important causes through Christian organizations.
66. Well-known atheists like Michael Martin and Quentin Smith have set up ministries to witness to Christians, but it is virtually impossible to find Christians who specialize in debating atheists.
67. Congress starts each session with selected excerpts from Michael Martin's Atheism: A Philosophical Justification. Each house of Congress also has its own "Atheist Chaplain." No Christian prayers are ever made in Congress and no Christian chaplains are available.
68. The word "Christian" is recognized as a term which represents the worst of human attributes: cynicism, pessimism, selfishness, and moral turpitude. The word "atheist," on the other hand, is used to signify all that is virtuous, as in, "That's mighty atheist of you!"
69. On sitcoms and movies of the week, the parents make references to how their lack of faith in God helps them get through life's troubles. Meanwhile, Christians are portrayed as pathetic folks who end up converting to Atheism.
70. Many American cities are named after noted atheist figures; for example, there is Corpus Darwini, Texas, and San Voltaire, California.
71. Historically, most private colleges and universities in the US were founded by atheists; while some have become religious over the years, many of them retain close ties with atheist organizations, and some of them still use hiring practices that exclude Christians from their faculty and staff. (And this discrimination against Christians is permitted and protected by law!)
72. Atheists who convert to Christianity are often told by their parents "It's just a rebellious phase. Once you move through this stage of life you'll realize that you never really believed in God." Similarly, people who are raised as Christians are condescended to, and told that if they would give Atheism a chance, it would fill the empty hole that Christianity must be leaving in their lives.
73. When celebrities or musicians accept awards during one of the many awards programs, they often end their list of "thank-you's" with a humble acknowledgment to Darwin for their "evolution-given talents."
74. During the 1996 election campaign, Pat Buchanan declared that creationism should not be taught in public schools. "We need a president who will commit himself to restoring Secular Humanist values and driving out the false god of the Christians," he said.
75. Atheists regularly go door-to-door on Sunday mornings asking people not to go to church with them.
76. Atheist cults are masters at luring lonely, young, disenfranchised people into their rational cults to brainwash them with reason so that they will give their lives and all worldly possessions to the atheist leaders.
77. Jehovah's witnesses, mormons, and other Christian groups are banned (by atheist-initiated zoning laws) from passing out literature from door to door.
78. People who don't decorate their homes with images of the Sun during the Winter Solstice season, are assumed to be irrational Christians in need of rational therapy and conversion.
79. Even atheist businesses hate the Winter Solstice season because people are encouraged to be rational and reasonable, thus encouraging our population to avoid senseless spending and debt and needless possession of material goods.
80. In general, Christians are considered to be less-than-honest. If you are a Christian, you must have no reason or rational judgment; therefore, you cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
81. Prisoners have become wise to the fact that they may receive early paroles if they claim to have found Atheism and been saved by Darwin. Such a conversion to rationality is thought to be a favorable sign of the rejection of a life of crime.
82. Humanist hate group members shave their heads and run around painting red H's on the doors of churches to intimidate Christians.
83. The Humanist Left and the Immoral Majority influence voting patterns in the Humanist Manifesto Belt states.
84. The government declared an official holiday in November to give thanks to fellow humans for the hard work and labor of our agricultural workers who provide the plentiful food resources we have in the U.S.
85. Atheist leaders of many sects bring in millions of dollars each week from TV and telephone solicitation and weekly meeting collections, enough to support at least one atheist meeting hall in nearly every community in the country, while Christian groups barely have enough money to support a half-dozen national groups.
86. Most people assume everyone else is an atheist and are unbelievers as they are. It makes for uncomfortable social situations for Christians and other religious types.
87. When one looks up "religion" or "Christianity" in books of collected quotations, 99% of the quotes chosen for publication are negative while atheist or agnostic topics are filled with positive quotations.
88. Bookstores have entire sections filled with atheist literature while "spiritual" and "religious" books are almost impossible to find, except through specialized distributors.
89. Despite the overwhelming number of atheists in the general population and in powerful legislative positions, when they don't get their own way, atheists whine that this is an anti-atheistic country.
90. Atheists constantly cite, out of context, books of philosophy by noted atheists to prove that Christians live irrational lives.
91. Atheists do everything possible to get laws passed that will prevent irrational Christians from making their own choices in matters of sex, procreation, life-styles, family units, etc.
92. Until recently, atheists had passed laws (known as Green Laws) that require all businesses to stay open on Sundays, preventing Christians who wished to practice their religious beliefs to work, just like everyone else.
93. Sci-fi movies almost always make rational scientific types into "good guys" while emotional, irrational people become the "heavies."
94. Movies that featured myths of silly miracles (like the parting of the Red Sea or the Resurrection of Jesus or other Biblical tales) never made any money. Most big movie studios rejected all proposals to make such ridiculous stories into films. However, "The Humanist Manifesto," 1956, was one of Cecil B. DeMille's blockbusters.
95. In small towns and communities all over the U.S., atheist horns awake Christians at midnight on Saturdays preventing them from getting a good night's sleep before their Sabbath. Fortunately for much of the population, few church bells wake atheists who want to sleep in on Sundays.
96. At every banquet, no matter the occasion, an atheist propagandist gets up and thanks Madalyn Murray O'Hair for her wisdom and insight in educating us rational beings so that we can provide the food that we are about to eat. The presence of nonatheists is not even acknowledged. No consideration is given to those who might find such a practice offensive.
97. Schools across the country force students to sing songs such as "Jesus Is Not the Son of God" during the Winter Solstice season. They rationalize this infringement on minority rights of religious freedom by claiming the songs are part of our collective culture.
98. During the Solstice season, Atheist Army members in uniforms block entrances to stores ringing annoying bells and requesting donations to save nonatheists from their pathetic irrational lives.
99. Atheist Army (and other Freethought) soup kitchens force homeless Christians to listen to atheist propaganda before serving them a meal.
100. Hundreds of self-help groups replace codependence with the 12 Steps of A.B.A. (Atheist Brainwashing Anonymous), convincing people they don't have the power to help themselves but must rely on the power of Darwin to overcome addiction.
101. U.S. atheist organizations send missionaries to underdeveloped countries to convince people to renounce long-held local religious beliefs and become atheists.
102. On Solstice Eve, there is nothing to watch on TV except atheist rituals from Stonehenge.
103. During the Solstice Season, nearly every network airs reruns (ad nauseam) of "It's A Rational Life," "Reason on 34th Street," "A Solstice Story," "The Stupidest Story Ever Told," and other atheist favorites. Christian programming cannot be found.
104. Christian employees have to use personal days or sick leave to stay at home to celebrate their holidays while everyone gets the day off for Winter Solstice and the birthdays of Charles Darwin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair. All major atheist celebrations have been declared National Holidays with all government offices remaining closed on those days.
105. All Rational People's Day, the 1st of November, is a holiday at atheist private schools. It's a day to celebrate Voltaire, Edison, Russell, Asimov, O'Hair, and other atheist leaders and philosophers for their rational and logical thoughts.
106. Ronald Reagan denounced the Vatican as the "Heavenly Empire" because of its official status as a theocracy.
107. When someone is pathetic enough to admit to being a Christian, friends respond by saying things like, "No you're not. You just think you are."
108. Images of Lazarus Long, a fictional character in Robert Heinlein books, are frequently pretended to be seen by atheists in paint stains, in the spots of cows, in tree bark, etc., causing large groups of people to make pilgrimages to those locations to confirm their lack of belief in the supernatural. These stories are given national news coverage to promote the status quo.
109. Christians are unfairly scrutinized for wearing t-shirts that say things such as "God's Gym" or "Resurrection Day," whereas atheists can proudly and without any protest wear their "Reasons Beer is Better than Jesus" or Darwin fish t-shirts.
110. Christians are constantly questioned as to where their morals come from. People always wonder why they have a reason to live, if god is the only thing they live for. Atheists, on the other hand, are praised for their high moral standards, and it is acknowledged that they don't need a reason to live just "being" is enough.
111. Professors are encouraged to tell the class that they are atheists during the first class period of the semester, since this conveys to the students that they sincerely care about their progress in the class, and about the student as a person. Christian professors would get ostracized for doing this; students would complain and the professor would be told to keep his beliefs to himself.
112. Atheists often try to scare Christians into disbelief by yelling that after they die they will be sent to the earth's fiery core and tormented by Nietzsche for eternity.
113. Each year, the U.S. Post Office is nearly brought to its knees as both devout and "cultural" atheists celebrate Lucretius' birth by sending each other antireligious cards and illuminated copies of De Rerum Natura.
114. Atheists from Salt Lake City collect lists of dead people, so that they can be baptized posthumously as atheists.
115. Atheists take sick people to doctors so that they can be 'cured,' instead of sitting them in front of TV healing shows. Many of these so-called 'doctors' have no ministerial qualifications!.
116. Atheists have a superstitious dread of the number 13, because Darwin once invited 12 of his friends to supper. In fact, atheists have such a strong superstition about certain numbers that road signs and house numbers and company logos have to be changed to avoid upsetting them.
117. NBC has shows that promote reason and skepticism in the face of Biblical prophecy or lone pseudoscientists while shows that promote irrational beliefs are on PBS and never reach as many people.
118. Noted atheists own "The Family Channel" and show programming that they find appropriate for other atheists.
119. The shows "Ignored by an Angel" and "Ultimately Illusory Highway to Heaven" are getting more and more viewers every week.
120. Each year, the President lights the National Solstice Tree.
121. There is an entire genre of music known as "Contemporary Atheist Music." The notion of "Christian music" is unheard of.
122. Most radio markets have at least one atheist radio station. There are no Christian radio stations anywhere.
123. Judges justify abortion based on evolutionary theory and Nietzche, instead of the Bible.
124. Judges often give long speeches on atheistic morality and use them as a basis for strange or lenient sentences.
125. All prisons have a resident atheist philosopher, and inmates are encouraged to participate in weekly philosophical discussions on Bible Contradictions. This is often reported to parole board, who consider it a good indication of contriteness on the prisoner's part.
126. Atheists tend to call homosexuals, lesbians, and bisexuals criminals against nature while Christians accept them the way God made them. Moreover, while a few "liberal" atheist organizations do not make heterosexuality a requirement for membership, most atheist organizations strictly condemn such behavior and have used their massive political influence to criminalize same-sex marriages.
127. School children who profess their Christianity are routinely held up to ridicule and harassment by the students and teachers who make up the atheist majority in both public and private schools.
128. Relatively inoffensive movies, which might otherwise be rated G or PG, are likely to be rated PG-13 or R if they contain excessive religious content.
129. According to comedian George Carlin, the "seven holy words" that cannot be broadcast on television are "God," "Jesus," "Christ," "bless," "heaven," "salvation," and "soul."
130. Congress has recently passed legislation requiring television manufacturers to install a so-called "H-chip," which enables viewers to automatically censor out any program containing excessive holiness.
131. Another bill recently signed by President Clinton includes the notorious "Communications Indecency Act," which will severely restrict the free speech rights of persons wishing to use Christian or other religious language or images on Usenet, Web pages, or even local bulletin boards.
132. A political candidate who declares himself a Christian will have far less chance of winning an election than one who flaunts his Atheism.
133. Former president Franklin Roosevelt always reminded his speech writers to put "some of that anti-God stuff"in his speeches."
134. Because many forms of Christianity oppose homosexuality, the Atheist Left has installed rules allowing members of the armed services to lose their jobs simply because they have admitted to being heterosexuals. And, of course, heterosexual marriages are completely prohibited.
135. Every year in November, the President issues a proclamation for a national day of Thanksgiving, calling on Americans to spend the day thanking their parents for creating them and for all that they have done for them. No mention is ever made of the role of God in creating people, helping them achieve happiness, or keeping the country secure. (The proclamation is usually issued a few weeks before the ceremonial planting of the White House Solstice Tree.)
136. Similarly, after a major disaster the President usually calls for an official day of action; never is prayer suggested.
137. The President usually ends every speech with the words, "Let's all help America, since there is no God to do things for us."
138. Whenever an atheist commits a crime, invariably people will argue that this is not a sign that teaching Atheism might not guarantee a better society, because anyone who would act that way "isn't a true atheist."
139. Bill Bennett compiles a long list of questionable statistics about increasing social ills in American society, and alleges that the increase is due to the "disastrous social experiment" that has abandoned our Agnosto-Atheistic heritage in favor of Christianity. Likewise, when he publishes a thick, pompous volume of other people's work entitled "The Book of Reason," the media (notably Time magazine) swoons in rapture and the book becomes a best seller (but rarely read by the children it's bought for, as they are not so easily indoctrinated as their atheist parents hope).
140. Hordes of angry scientists picketed the movie "Young Einstein," claiming that it depicted Einstein completely wrong, but no one cared enough to demonstrate against "The Last Temptation of Jesus Christ." "Young Einstein" is still so controversial that it is difficult to find in the large video chains.
141. "I don't need a copilot" is a popular bumper sticker.
142. Encyclopedia entries on Christianity are usually written by atheists.
143. Every time a football team wins a game, the coach thanks his players for playing such a spectacular game. Every time a football team loses a game, the coach says, "Well, we would have won, but Jesus wouldn't let us."
144. Bookstores usually carry twenty or thirty versions of the Humanist Manifesto: The Children's HM, The Study HM, The Daily Advice HM, The Murray O'Hair Version HM, The Murray O'Hair Revised Version HM, The Complete HM, The Large Print HM, The Young Couple's Guide HM, The Living HM, The Family Reference HM, etc... The Christian bible only has one version, and it's hard to find.
145. The Atheist Left labels itself "pro-responsibility" and "people of reason," implying that Christians are "anti-responsibility" and "people without reason."
146. "Godfull Christian" is a popular, if redundant, insult.
147. The phrase "Darwin devolve" was considered so indecent that for a long time it was not allowed to be broadcast on television or radio, even though both words originated from "The Origin of the Species."
148. Many Christians routinely use "Darwin devolve" as an expression of anger or disappointment even though they don't believe in Darwin. They have only picked up the phrase from their culture. Still, some fundamentalist atheists use this behavior as so-called "evidence" that all people are born believing in Darwin naturally.
149. "Christian" is often misspelled as "Christain."
150. One often sees bumper stickers like, "Thomas Paine said it, I believe it, that settles it," but seldom sees Christian bumper stickers.
151. Numerous books and talk shows deal with the Near Death Experience and the phenomena are remarkably similar. The person enters a long dark tunnel, its pitch black and nobody is there!!
152. Judges often rule in favor of the atheist at a custody hearing, because Reason and Freethought are considered virtues, where belief in God makes you an unfit parent.
153. Atheist Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, in a speech given at an atheist nonprayer breakfast, declared that Christians are irrational for believing in miracles and the resurrection of Jesus. Scalia also complained that atheists are wrongly deemed "simple-minded" by the "worldly-wise."
154. Famous atheist Madalyn Murray-O'Hair was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal, America's highest civilian award, for her decades-long devotion to Atheism and the separation of church and state. The Speaker of the House, the Senate majority leader, and the Vice President were on hand at the ceremony, which occurred on the National Day of Nonprayer. The Congressional resolution noted Murray-O'Hair's "outstanding and lasting contributions to morality, racial equality, family, philanthropy, and Atheism." In her acceptance speech, Murray-O'Hair called on all Americans to cleanse themselves of irrational religion and commit their lives to Atheism. The Christian evangelist Billy Graham, of course, has never won this award and never will.
155. Every summer, millions of children attend vacation bible-contradiction school.
156. The sale of religious items is banned on Sunday, which is considered a day of rational thought. Beer and wine can be purchased at anytime.
157. The southern states are often referred to as the atheist belt.
158. Atheistic vandals frequently spray-paint such slogans as "Darwin Saves" and "Try O'Hair" on road signs and highway overpasses. No Christian would EVER think of painting "Try Jesus" on a bridge abutment, however.
159. A Christian debater who cites divine mysteries to support his point is booed off the stage. Meanwhile, any atheist who contradicts with logical reason is applauded, and well known atheists like Buchanan give speeches praising their "disbelief in god."
160. Pat Buchanan said, in one speech, "our culture is superior because we have no religion."
161. Anyone who opposes any plan to impose Atheism on citizens is bombarded by hate mail and death threats, some of which are carried out.
162. There are several incidents of groups of atheist teens beating on lone heterosexuals, and the police do nothing. They are known as "straight-bashings."
163. The Atheist Coalition and Immoral Minority currently have a tight grip on the balls of the democratic party.
164. When children are born, the parents are considered evil if they do not splash its face in Kool Aid to verify its Atheism.
165. Atheist organizations are given tax-free status that allows them to invest billions in nonatheist interests, such as real estate, entertainment, utilities--and all these items come under the same tax-free status.
166. For some odd reason, nobody teaches the uplifting, positive and affirming concept of "Original Sin" to our children in order to help them develop self-assured and guilt free.
167. My in-laws were thrilled when they learned that I was an atheist, and couldn't wait for me to marry their daughter.
168. For years. people in places like Ireland and the Middle East have been killing each other over the difference between Atheism and Humanism.
169. There are so few Christian websites while there are nearly 5000 atheist websites.
170. A prominent atheist leader got his appendix removed and it received worldwide attention. The founder of American Christians (known as the most hated woman in America) is missing for over a year and the media hardly talks about it.
171. It is much easier to adopt a child if the prospective parents assert they are not Christians.
172. People look at one oddly when one says ones' lack of belief in Jesus as a son of god is True, while everyone else's lack of belief in Jesus as a son of God is False.
173. Stealth evolutionists infiltrate churches to subvert sermons with evolutionary theory; there have never stealth creationists who have taken over public school boards and inflicted creationism upon its students.
174. From Samhain to almost a week past Solstice we are inundated by atheist hymns in the stores.
175. In every high school, Christian children are told not to where there pro-Christian t-shirts.
176. Anything that a Christian says cannot be trusted.
177. Libraries across the country have books banned for their Christian influences.
178. No U.S. president has ever been a Christian. In fact, every U.S. president other than Kennedy was a card-carrying atheist. (Kennedy was a Secular Humanist instead, and didn't believe in carrying cards.)
179. On game shows with trivia categories, whenever the category is "religion" the questions are almost always about religions other than Christianity. Icons used to display the "religion" category to the viewers at home never have pictures of crosses in them.
180. If a charitable foundation is challenged in court, it is much easier to defend its charitable purpose if the foundation was established for nonreligious purposes. Quoting a few passages from Atheism: The Case Against God in its Mission Statement will usually do the trick.
181. Christians who are interested in striking down the I.R.S. as unconstitutional have a very difficult time finding like-minded Christians. Atheistic organizations devoted to "Sovereignty" or "Patriotism," however, are all over the place.
182. Governors have vetoed bills concerning natural disasters which did NOT refer to them as "acts of God," suggesting that God is responsible for the occurrence of natural disasters.
183. When the interjection "By Jove!" is spoken, hordes of angry nonChristians howl about dissolute believers using Jove's name in vain. Similarly, "Go to Tartarus!" is a common vulgarity.
184. "Jesus--the Legendary Resurrections" is a popular T V show starring Kevin Sorbo, an ardent atheist.
185. Seven states in the US (Massachusetts, Colorado, Louisiana, Maryland, Michigan, Oklahoma, and Rhode Island) have blasphemy laws which make culpable those who revile secular humanists and/or Darwin.
186. Many jurisdictions are passing or dusting off laws which force Christians to fornicate. Christians who choose to abstain until marriage are not only jailed but excoriated as contributing to the degradation of America's Humano-Atheist heritage.
187. When NBC shows programs about the paranormal, one hears an average of three sentences from pro-paranormal experts even though NBC's reporters may have interviewed these experts for hours. Comments from skeptics dominate the telecast.
188. On paranormal television shows, Christians and parapsychologists are almost always portrayed as closed-minded and ornery. Their ace material is almost always left out of the broadcast.
189. Many residents have statues of Pallas Athene, Zeus, Charles Darwin, Bertrand Russel, Albert Einstein, Erwin Schrdinger, James Randi, Carl Sagan, Voltaire, Democritus, Thomas Paine, and Issac Asimov in their yards. If a Christian dares to put a statue of the Virgin Mary or St. Joseph in their yard, offended and irate neighbors immediately demand its removal.
190. A common bumper sticker is "Real men hate Jesus."
191. NBC often runs programs debunking the resurrection of Jesus, Therapeutic Touch, the power of prayer, the shroud of Turin, psychic police, alien abductions, ancient prophesy, and Delphic doomsday predictions.
192. Last Solstice season, a throng of nonbelievers and curious folk flocked to the Seminole Finance Corporation building in Tampa Bay, Florida, to witness apparitions which bore a striking resemblance to homo habilus, an evolutionary link between apes and humans. The media payed no attention to similar Christian apparitions.
193. The national anthem of Great Britain is "Save the Queen from God."
194. Greek creationists, who believe the ancient story of the creation of man by Prometheus, have demanded that the teaching of Genesis be stopped in Christian fundamentalist schools.
195. During the eighteenth century, superstitious humanist leaders derided Benjamin Franklin's explanation of lightning and invention of the lightning rod as heretical.
196. The top selling book in all of history is the Humanist Manifesto. Atheist apologists use this fallacious reasoning (the fact the HM is the top selling book) as proof of the nonexistence of gods to immoral Christians.
197. Atheist fundamentalists fervently object to Halloween for its promotion of belief in devils, witches, magic, and other claptrap.
198. Jimmy Carter recently published a best-selling book titled Religion: Destroying the Truth. Similarly, Robert Bork has written a best-selling book called America: Slouching Toward the New Jerusalem, explaining the pernicious influence of Christians and moral conservatives on America.
199. Nancy Reagan is famous for her promotion of "Religion: Just Say No." Similarly, her husband Ronald frequently contributes articles debunking astrology to the Skeptical Inquirer.
200. American history books always portray indigenous peoples, blacks, atheists, agnostics, and freethinkers in a positive light. Christians--if they are ever mentioned at all--are portrayed as ignorant, irrational, ineffectual, naive, and savage. Christian children often go home crying because of these distorted historical accounts.
201. Dictionary definitions for "Christian" and "atheist" are as follows:
* Christian: 1) a person who denies the nonexistence of God 2) un-Darwin, immoral, wicked
* atheist: 1) a person who, as a follower of Darwin, has a loving regard for others 2) a decent, respectable person
202. Evangelistic atheists frequently go house to house, extolling the virtues of Reason whether the resident wants to hear it or not.
203. Atheists make a big deal out of nonbelief and will bring it up at every opportunity. Christians don't even talk about religion. If they did, they'd be ridiculed and harassed.
204. Atheists expect everyone to believe exactly as they do and show no tolerance, even to agnostics or humanists. Christians take a "live and let live" attitude and, as long as no one tries to force the issue, don't care what others believe.
205. During inauguration ceremonies the President-elect is expected to finish his oath by spitting on the "holy cross" as a sign of his rejection of irrational Christianity. If the President-elect refused to do this it would inevitably generate a great deal of distrust among the public.
206. In many courthouses across the country inverted crosses and other antireligious symbols figure prominently in judges' chambers and even in the court room itself. No one seems to consider that Christians might find this offensive.
207. American newspapers have recently made much of how Cuban dictator Fidel Castro is supposed to be rejecting his traditional conservative Christian values, and about the upcoming visit to Cuba of Francis Crick, the prominent biologist and outspoken atheist.
208. Scientists and thinkers such as Giordano Bruno who were executed by the church for their defense of reason are often held up as examples of courage and virtue, and are featured prominently in books and films. The martyrs of the early Christian church are rarely mentioned, if at all.
209. Atheists are glorified when they go to war to defend their rationality. Pacifist Christians (who invariably follow the advice to "turn the other cheek") are regarded as cowards.
210. Most public figures are WASPs. (Wise Atheistic Secular People)
211. Freedom of Speech and the Establishment clause are untouchable laws because so many atheists support them. The right to bear arms is constantly in danger of being lost, as most atheists are anti-gun.
212. Thomas Jefferson spoke of the "binding connection of Church and State," and most of the Founding Fathers were fundamentalists. However, modern atheists have suppressed their religious standings to advance their own causes.
213. Lots of press coverage is devoted to people who see nonmiraculous images of Darwin, Sagan etc. formed in clouds or stains.
214. Atheists are strongly discouraged from marrying theists. Preferably, the theist should convert to the atheist's particular brand of Atheism.
215. Politicians try to win votes by declaring how strongly they disbelieve in God.
216. Children's toys depicting evolution are widely available, but Christians find it very difficult to purchase Noah's Ark toys.
217. Atheists have recently encouraged the boycotting of companies such as Disney for apparently pro-Christian imagery in films and cartoons, and their supposed encouragement of heterosexuality.
218. A recent rally in Washington D.C. drew nearly a million atheist men, who promised to live their lives according to the 'Origin of Species." During the rally, the men held signs with quotes from Nietzche and Ayn Rand, and often fell to their knees to offer reasoned arguments on evolutionary theories. News coverage of the event was almost entirely positive, despite the protests of a few groups who felt that the mens' "survival of the fittest" attitude may end up victimizing women.

[AlAyeti]

McCulloch,

You're coming around. I like the spunky smart-aleck appraoch. And you even are recognizing some truths.

palmera wrote:
If the world embraced fundamentalist Christianity, what would happen to the "Free exchange of ideas" you speak so often about? The world would be filled with automatons, not thinking at all.
Don't you know. If there was a really free exchange of ideas and the Christian message was allowed to be preached freely, billions of people would convert. That is how powerfully strong the message is. It is just so self-evident that the anti-christians have to resort to censorship and underhanded means to suppress the message and prevent True Christianity from sweeping the world.

Would that Cotemporary Christian Music be blasting out of Arabic radios other than Jihad propaganda.

If there were freedom of speech worldwide then billions would be the word for Christian growth.

palmera wrote:
Further, what reality are you living in? We are humans, not machines to be programed. Fundamentalist Christianity could prevent pre-marital sex? Some of the areas with the highest percentage of teen pregnancy are also areas of high fundamental Christian population concentration: West Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia. Regardless of how much one believes in or embraces some ideology or ism, she/he will falter. Your worldwide cleansing through fundamental christianity is not only impossible, but is also a dangerous ideal.

Yes, the devil, Satan, that supernatural personification of evil is hard at work attacking the righteous.

Just remember that Satan is not omnipotent. He can only spend so much time in Canada and then he's off to Massachusetts to do a quick check in. Then, onto the Bible belt.

I wonder would would happen to all of those figures on abortion would look, if Massachusetts and Seattle kept records. It seems there are only the remorseful in the Bible-believing areas.

[Jose]

Here is a follow-up to yesterday's post. It provides evidence that there are, indeed, Christian fundamentalists who interpret simple acts of others as anti-Christian attacks.

The situation is this: Recently, our state had a military funeral for a young man killed in Iraq. The service was disrupted by rowdy protesters. In the interest of the families of servicemen and women killed in the line of duty, one of our state congressmen, a conservative Republican, submitted a bill to the state legislature that would make it a crime to disrupt military funerals. The quote below, from our local paper, summarizes some of the response to this action. The group in question is a fundamentalist church:

A flier the group faxed to the newspaper Wednesday viciously attacks Steele. "Anatomy of a Lawless, God-Hating Demagogue, State Sen. Brent Steele," the flier states, above a picture of the senator. It calls his church a "sodomite whorehouse" and announces it will picket there. It calls him "this cockroach who hates the light."

Wow. And he's a conservative Republican in a conservative state.

This is somewhat similar to the debacle in Kansas over the teaching of evolution. The first time the state school board removed evolution from the state standards, scientists started making Kansas jokes. When the new school board was elected, and put evolution back in (which has since been reversed by yet another election), the non-fundamentalist school board members started receiving death threats, and were called "babykillers." There is no relationship whatsoever between teaching sound science and killing babies. Yet, there were some Christians who imagined that there is, and attacked the school board because they imagined that the school board was anti-Christian, and was attacking them.

You'd think this kind of thing could be resolved by sitting down and discussing things. Unfortunately, that's not acceptable to those who believe in "Absolutes" and believe that their personal "Absolutes" are the only ones that are right. Because they "answer to a higher power," mere laws and mere logic don't count. It's this viewpoint that sees any action that contradicts their Absolutes as an anti-Christian attack.

[AlAyeti]

Palmera,

Quote:
Victims, innocent non-agreeing victims, of the non-Christians abound! What ever happened to the free exchange of ideas? "Fundamentalist" Christianty would perfectly cure both AIDS and treating your enemie with bombs, as neither is a fundamental truth of Fundamentalist Christianity.

Islam, Buddhism, Daoism, Judaism, Jainism, Confucism- each of these could also "perfectly cure" that which ails our society through peaceful interpretation. Besides, we're not living in a vacuum. Even if all the people in the world (God forbid) whose to believe the same religion, there would still be strife due to social, economic political and environmental pressures. Is it that you want everyone to be the exact same?

Like I said, if there were a free exchange of ideas. You are right though, even with the Messiah with them, some people do not want to follow God. Now, that Islam comparison since we have the luxury of seeing what "it" does in societies would you like to rethink your list? I'm thinking that Budha and Confucious fit OK with Jesus, and of course Jesus practiced Judaism for the most part.

Quote:
Imagine if the world embraced the real "fundamental" teachings of Jesus.
There would be a lot less suffering at the hands of people that refuse now to believe in the "Fundamentalist" perspective. Certainly there would be no sex before marriage but also the elimination of disease and fatherless children. Both plagues on the world today.

If the world embraced fundamentalist Christianity, what would happen to the "Free exchange of ideas" you speak so often about?

You obviously know little of Christian denominations. Even the New Testament shows a lack of bobblehead believers.

The world would be filled with automatons, not thinking at all. Further, what reality are you living in? We are humans, not machines to be programed.

Then why do so many "humans" look to Bonobos as role models? Of course we are not automatons, I read the Bible as it written and believe it.

Fundamentalist Christianity could prevent pre-marital sex?

That's what I hear. I'm thinking it would be pretty hard for a couple of people (different sex people) to "WWJD" there way to a motel to hook up.

Some of the areas with the highest percentage of teen pregnancy are also areas of high fundamental Christian population concentration: West Texas, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia.

Really, abortion is no more than a bowel movement to most Liberal areas. Not much record-keeping and of course no remorse. In Bible-believing areas there is far more caring about the issue.

Regardless of how much one believes in or embraces some ideology or ism, she/he will falter. Your worldwide cleansing through fundamental christianity is not only impossible, but is also a dangerous ideal.

I think Jesus would disagree with that assertion. And, I think "worldwide cleansing" may be a bit of an inapprpriate way of phrasing this issue.

Quote:
On the subject of sex with a member of ones own sex, Fundamentalist Christians believe in the fundamental truth of scienc to accurately detail the sexual functions of humans accurately presented in the Anatomy, Physiology and Biology. All three sciences having immutable fundamental truths as well. Far be it from a "Fundamentalist Christians" to ignore facts and override observable truth for personal opinion.

I think you may be defining "fundamentalist" in a non-traditional sense here

.

You may be the first person to figure that out.

The last thing fundamentalists do is turn to science to support their belief- if they did they would be found inherently lacking in faith.

Have you read thre beginning of the Gospel of John? Science is nothing that I fear and no fundamentalist that I know of either.

Further, there are no immutable, eternal or inherent "truths," moral or otherwise in the field of science.

Please do not put this to the test. I would not want to see what you would look like if you denied the "law" of gravity off a ten story building. The absolute fact is that you would not survive the denial of scientific immutable fact. Unless of course you had a parachute. But, that wouldn't change gravity, just your look upon touching the ground.

Your assertion of this comes, it seems, from your fundamentalist perspective and doesn't hold true among those in the scientific community, especially in ever evolving fields dealing with natural forms and functions.

When will see the day a person eats a hotdog through their ear canal? "Ever evolving fields?" If you have a full length mirror, you can do some empirical research about scientific facts yourself.

There is no science textbook which makes moral claims or judgements about the nature of sex or sexuality. At the root of science is observation, not judgement.

That is why I use anatomy, physiology and biology to prove the Christian position about scientific sexuality.

Science is not the search for absolutes, but the search for the right questions based on experiential knowledge.

This is a completely knew concept to scientists that think gravity is a done deal.

You're trying to force your own beliefs in absolutes and absolute morality on a foundation of knowledge for which absolutes are purposefully avoided in the recognition that they are

"Me" purposely avoid knowledge? I present scientifically founded facts about the digestive tract from mouth to far below in perfect scientific facts.

When the ear becomes part of the digetsive tract (I guess maybe it could evolve) then science can agree with other uses for the digestive tract. Otherwise the body and all if its parts and functions are pretty much wrapped up scientifically. Maybe not in mental illnesses but that is another debate topic.

[Jose]

I counted four out of forty five.

Now, if any of these "Christian" orgs, mention that (you know who) are practicsing unnatural sex acts, and that "their religion," is being insulted by (you know what) on College campuses, what would happen to "their" freedom of assembly? Or what if these "Christian" orgs, did the same thing about (you know who) but used Anatomy, Physiology and Biology, to claim the same intellectual insult?

They would picketed and run out of town on a rail. I believe what is happening for now, is that Christians "are tolerated," but only if their seen and not heard. I'll endeavor to call the local college Christian orgs and ask this question. If I am wrong, I'll post it.

These Christian orgs would be given the same treatment as anyone else: what they talk about in their meetings is up to them. However, should they post slanderous or obscene material on university websites, then this would be challenged. Should they post such material on private websites, the university would ignore it.

There really is a very strong fundamentalist movement at this time, as is evidenced by the wild outcry when good ol' Bush chose Harriet Miers for the supreme court.

The only "wild" outcry was from the educated elitists, that feel our gods need to come from Yale and Harvard. I watched all three big News Channels.

While it is true that there was considerable outcry from all over about her qualifications, the Christian Right claimed that she was not sufficiently right-wing. If there had not been rank discord within the Repubs, they would have pushed her on through.

You may want to check out how open-minded are "Freethinkers-atheists-progressives-humanists-liberals-theists-deists-socialists-Democrats . . . etc., etc., etc.. Now there is lock step ideology. Everytime I look at the little doggie figurine on some car dashboards I think of these people's view on abortion, same-sex marriage, socialism, drug use, incredibly high taxes etc.,etc..

I kinda like high taxes for people who make vast amounts of money. As it is, many of them pay less than I do, because they can afford all the loopholes. But if you look around, with your eyes open, you'll find that there is tremendous diversity of opinion among these multiple groups that you've mentioned.

But, the behavior of society is more like Sodom and Gomorrah. A couple thousand years before Jesus (AD).

Only if you believe there ever were such places.

The simple rules no longer do the job. The world is more complex than it ever used to be. Everything has so many variables, and so many unknowns, that it is absolutely necessary to evaluate all possibilities, and all points of view, before deciding on action. Relativism? You bet! That's what works.

It certainly is failing the children that literally fill our criminal justice system, jails and mental institutions. Please, please make a few calls. There are absolutes that work. But they are being redefined because Relativism is now more religion than pragmatic outlook.

What is failing the children who are ending up in jails is the refusal of the majority to support schools. There are, indeed, absolutes. If you absolutely refuse to give kids a decent education, you are absolutely guaranteed that they will be unable to support themselves when they grow up. The weird thing is that the R's strategy for this is to punish the teachers whom they fail to provide with adequate facilities. [Oh, I forgot. Sorry. That's their strategy to get rid of public education, and with it the teachers' unions, which vote Democratic.]

They are efforts to retain the accurate teaching of science, which is labeled "indoctrination in godless materialism." They are efforts to retain the accurate teaching of health, as students become old enough that they have to face the increasingly treacherous waters of puberty and sexual maturity, which is labeled "pederasty and training in licentious hedonism."

Anyone not watching who is minding the store (or Church) is not a good parent. Pedophiles are always found around children and are usually in the place of leadership.

Then shouldn't we watch out for pedophiles, rather than label everyone who tries to work with children by that name? You have raised a legitimate worry here, but you destroy your credibility by applying it to everyone.

The healthy teaching of science is to not teach it as a means to destroy God. And sexuality in the education setting comes from the "sciences" of Anatomy, Physiology and Biology. Bonobos should not be role models for children to follow in the footsteps of a generation that literally killed themselves through "unnatural" and "hedonistic licentiousness." If we are to teach children in SCHOOLS, then let's teach them truth and facts!

And the truth and facts are that science has nothing to do with god, and never has been a means to destroy god. There is no such thing. If Fundamentalist Christians prefer to ignore faith of the majority of Christians, that's up to them. They are flat-out wrong when they claim that anything about science attempts to destroy god. All that science does, and all that it can do, is present facts and truth, and our current best interpretation of those facts.

Do they actually teach about the sexual practices of Bonobos in middle and high school? I haven't heard that they do, and I've talked to a lot of science teachers. Even if they did, who would be silly enough to think that this would be a "role model"?

They are efforts to retain equal treatment under the law, not only for white Christian males, but also for women, and for people of all races and economic backgrounds.

These are the days when being white is seen as a hate crime in and of itself and being a white male is seen as a monster of intolerance. Yet, it was white men that created this system by which everyone is arguing about this or that. Certainly a great acomplishment that needs to be recogognized and not denigrated. How many people are illegal aliens on other continents.

There is some truth to what you say, that some people consider white males to be monsters of intolerance, by definition. There still remains the fact of lower pay for women, the fact that the highest-paying jobs are mostly held by white men, and that people who are not white men are automatically assumed to be less capable. It is not necessarily white men who are forcing this onto us, but an overall cultural tradition with decades of history behind it. That's why it is so important to make people aware of the kneejerk, unexamined reasons that we behave the way we do.

They are efforts to have people treated as people, even when their neurobiology is more commonly associated with external sex characteristics of the opposite sex.

Pedophiles have a neurobiolgy absolutely judged by their external sex characteristsics. And in fact "they" want to be part of this new kind of "relativism." They get into the new world of diversity too? They ARE seeking this "civil right."

We aren't talking about pedophiles. They may be saddled with neurobiological issues that make them behave the way they do, but since their behavior is damaging to other people, it is rightly judged by society and by laws to be wrong. However, when people's behavior in no way influences anyone else, why should we get all hot and bothered about what we imagine they might be doing when we aren't looking?

At no time in history even in the most licentious and hedonistic civilizations has the family NOT been man-woman-and their children. It is not bigotry to view the family by what works BY biological design. It is intolerant to think it can be forced to change by minority protest. That opens the door to the proverbial slippery slope to be a world wide slide.

Actually, in a huge number of older cultures and some current ones, family has been defined as parents, kids, grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. It's what we now call the "extended family." Our particular aberration of the family, insisting that only the "nuclear" family is "right," probably bears a lot of responsibility for the problems you currently rail against. In a tiny nuclear family, if two people don't get along, they end up fighting. In a larger extended family, there is another family member that each of them can go to. There is a greater opportunity for loving family relationships, and more opportunities to defuse anger and mis-communication. As it is, kids have parents, maybe some siblings, and they have The Street. Street culture has taken over where loving (extended) family used to be.

Against this background--and even in the context of current tradition--having some guys down the street who are living together in no way perturbs my own marriage. I really can't see why you care.

For a hundred years Christmas Carolers went door to door. Now that is seen as intolerance. Literally.

There are several possibilities, if this is true. One is that most people can't sing. Listening to dissonance is intolerable. Another possibility is that the US is not as homogeneous as it was long ago. We've pretended that we are a melting pot, and that we welcome immigrants--at least, up until recently.

Some of this is alluded to above, such as teaching science accurately, or living with the person god has chosen as your partner.

Sexual orientation is determined by genitalia according to the God of nature.

See? This is why you talked about pedophilia before. You have no answer to the fact that sexual orientation is determined in the brain, other than to say "is not!" Now why would that be? It must be that the god of nature chooses for it to be. It must be that your god purposely makes people homosexual, purposely making their brain not match their genitals. So what if someone "looks" like a man, if his actual being is that of a woman? Just because it looks weird to you, doesn't mean that it's weird to god. And yet you judge these people of god's as if you knew better than god does.

The silencing of Christians is a fact. The ACLU will be starting up again at the beginning of December. Empiricism is a good place to see a lack of menatl illness. A myth and fairy tale should not be offensive and certainly shouldn't have an all-powerful "Civil Rights" organization after it.

The silencing of anyone should be fact, and should be greatly desired, if they are attempting to force inappropriate things onto others. If it's the KKK forcing death or maiming onto someone who merely happens to have darker skin, then the ACLU should defend that person against the intolerance of the KKK. If someone is attacked by Christians, then the ACLU should defend that person against said Christians. If a Christian is attacked by atheists, then the ACLU should defend that Christian against the atheists.

More likely, it follows logically from some Rube-Goldberg domino effect, like "teaching evolution teaches that there was death before the Fall, and therefore teaches that there can be no Salvation, so everyone will abandon the morals that god gave them, and they will become feminists." (Essentially as presented in the fundamentalist pamphlets of the 1920's, which did, indeed, blame feminsim on the teaching of evolution).

Have you been outside in the real world? Now a "married woman" can kill her and her husbands child without his say so. But in Virginia, a man has to get his wife's permission to have a vasectomy. And all of those "fatherless" children in the criminal courts system and mental institutions? Feminism has put those children in a hellish world while other EVEN LESS fortunate children got torn to pieces (if lucky) or thrown into stainless steel bins while still "alive" (the unlucky).

You choose your examples so well. "Feminism" attempts to help those women get out of the trap that they are in. Unfortunately, part of that trap is established by scripture, which tells us not to let women participate in a variety of affairs better left to men. As a result, efforts to better the lot of women are seen as anti-Christian. It might be worthwhile going outside into the real world, and finding out what the lives of many of these women are like, and what the attitudes are of the men with whom they must live.

So, why not verbally attack the Scientologists instead? Well, frankly, because they aren't trying to force us to do their bidding. They have more subtle techniques.

"Subtle techniques" the very words to define "relativism" and what it has done to our planet.

Oh, they're not relativists at all. It's very clear who is on whose side, and the circumstances in which it is perfectly acceptable to lie to people who are not among the chosen. They really are very good at getting people into their group, and then further ensnaring them. Oddly, they don't use threats of an eternity in hell, vs eternal paradise. Maybe that's why there aren't as many of them.

[bernee51]

'Fundamentalists' believe that their worldview is, in fact, the only valid world view

.

That is an accurate description of what the Gospels and New Testament presents.

problem is it is not a 'worldview' at all. It is a narrow socio/ethnocentric view.

That is also an accurate opinion of what is presented as a fact in the New Testament.

The 'we are right and the rest are wrong' type of view.

This is an inorrect assertion, the followers of Christ believe that Jesus was God and that what is quoted of Him is what He viewed as right and wrong.

The fact that youi agreed with the first two assertions demonstrates than, indeed the third is also correct. If you hold with the first two you canot possibly agree that others might be 'right'.

Big difference. Also many "fundamentalists" are meeting their death these days for trying to bring that "news" to other people in the world.

Such a terrible waste of life - don't you agree? They would be better off satyoing at home and raising good christian kids or working to beetr the live of compatriots.

They are being killed by people that believe in an altogether different ethnocentric belief system.

Exactly my point. Ridding ourselves of ethnocentrism, encouragin worldcentrism, pluralism and aperspectivism is the way forward.

The words (alledged fair enough) about peace, love or that there is a real hell? All three concepts "fundamenatally" presented in the Gospels? If a person truly believes in all three, isn't trying to educate others about that message a great comission? A "nice" thing to do? Even if you completely believe they are mistaken, isn't a grand attempt to spread the words of Christ?

Ah but that it were only these three. There is more isn't there...there is only one way to do things, only one way to 'salvation', only one way to meet the literalist, fundamentalist interpretation of the bible. That is not onbnly about 'these three' is it.

Many people do not believe they need to go to College (and they don't really) but that word is "preached" incessantly in lower education and social and religious settings. Good advice should be spread even to those unwilling to hear it, no?

Talk away then leave the choices to them. It is a form of intolerance of 'fundamentalists' to wish to enforce their narrow ethocentric view on the rest of the world.

I take exception to them wanting to include me in their choices.

Like AIDS? That kind of wanting to include in choice behavior and beliefs?

Of course.

Or, terrorism?

This is a crime against humanity. Or 'freedom fighting'. Depends on one's political perspective.

Terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.

Shock and awe, shock and awe.

"Fundamentalist" Christianty would perfectly cure both AIDS and treating your enemie with bombs, as neither is a fundamental truth of Fundamentalist Christianity.

One of the five yamas in Vedana is brahmacharya - it loosly translates as 'restraint', another is ahimsa - non-violence (in thought, word or deed), another is satya - truthfullness. You get the picture I'm sure.

Imagine if the world embraced the real "fundamental" teachings of Jesus.

Imagine if the world embraced the philosophy of Vedanta (which is AFAIK compatible with all religions). We would have a world without label-sayers.

Certainly there would be no sex before marriage but also the elimination of disease and fatherless children. Both plagues on the world today.

Both have been around since 'creation'. Adopting a 'label' will not change that.

[AlAyeti]

Here is a follow-up to yesterday's post. It provides evidence that there are, indeed, Christian fundamentalists who interpret simple acts of others as anti-Christian attacks.

The situation is this: Recently, our state had a military funeral for a young man killed in Iraq. The service was disrupted by rowdy protesters. In the interest of the families of servicemen and women killed in the line of duty, one of our state congressmen, a conservative Republican, submitted a bill to the state legislature that would make it a crime to disrupt military funerals. The quote below, from our local paper, summarizes some of the response to this action.

The group in question is a fundamentalist church:

The Herald Times wrote:
A flier the group faxed to the newspaper Wednesday viciously attacks Steele. "Anatomy of a Lawless, God-Hating Demagogue, State Sen. Brent Steele," the flier states, above a picture of the senator. It calls his church a "sodomite whorehouse" and announces it will picket there. It calls him "this cockroach who hates the light."

Wow. And he's a conservative Republican in a conservative state.

I can't figure who is doing what to who? Anyone picketing a funeral is dispicable. How is the Republicans church a sodomite whorehouse? How is Steele a cockroach who hates the light?

This is somewhat similar to the debacle in Kansas over the teaching of evolution. The first time the state school board removed evolution from the state standards, scientists started making Kansas jokes.

This isn't surprising. These people probably have heroes in Bonobo tribes. What's the point? I am a fundamentalist Christian and my children have an "Evolution Coloring book." How does teaching children fairy tales hurt anything?

When the new school board was elected, and put evolution back in (which has since been reversed by yet another election), the non-fundamentalist school board members started receiving death threats, and were called "babykillers."

Obviously not death threats from "fundamentalist Christians." There is no call for making death threats to anyone about anything in the Gospels. It is what is called and fundamental truth of the Gospel.

There is no relationship whatsoever between teaching sound science and killing babies.

That is a mistke or a wrong assertion. Evolution took God out of the mix. Some kind of sound science is used to excuse away the murder of the child because some misguided and ignorant people believe that the human being growing inside a mother is "just a mass of cells," which of course we know that better sound science has disproven.

Yet, there were some Christians who imagined that there is, and attacked the school board because they imagined that the school board was anti-Christian, and was attacking them.

Most (if not all) evolutionists are anti-Christians. Certainly Darwin was. So connecting the dots is only prudent and sound reasoning.

You'd think this kind of thing could be resolved by sitting down and discussing things. Unfortunately, that's not acceptable to those who believe in "Absolutes" and believe that their personal "Absolutes" are the only ones that are right.

Evolutionists are as closed-minded as it gets. Give me a break. Talk about absolutists. They have a pitbull called the ACLU to prove it.

Because they "answer to a higher power," mere laws and mere logic don't count.

Would that be like from chaos comes order? That kind logic? 0 X 1 = 0.

0 X 0 = 0. Am I a bigot for seeing the facts here?

It's this viewpoint that sees any action that contradicts their Absolutes as an anti-Christian attack.

I believe that Christianty is now illegal on school grounds. That may be waht Christians are reacting to as "anti-Christian. It is. Again, beware the dog that bites. HERE Akklew! Here boy!

[AlAyeti]

AlAyeti wrote:

Quote:
'Fundamentalists' believe that their worldview is, in fact, the only valid world view
.

That is an accurate description of what the Gospels and New Testament presents.

Quote:
problem is it is not a 'worldview' at all. It is a narrow socio/ethnocentric view.
That is also an accurate opinion of what is presented as a fact in the New Testament.

Quote:
The 'we are right and the rest are wrong' type of view.

This is an inorrect assertion, the followers of Christ believe that Jesus was God and that what is quoted of Him is what He viewed as right and wrong.


The fact that youi agreed with the first two assertions demonstrates than, indeed the third is also correct. If you hold with the first two you canot possibly agree that others might be 'right'.

This is the problem with agreeing with anything by an absolutist. You see Bernee, your whole point seems intolerant to anything a Christian presnts unless it agrees with everything you say and want.

AlAyeti wrote:

Big difference. Also many "fundamentalists" are meeting their death these days for trying to bring that "news" to other people in the world.

Such a terrible waste of life - don't you agree? They would be better off satyoing at home and raising good christian kids or working to beetr the live of compatriots.

REAL martyrs die with hands empty and working for the Living God. I praise these people with every thought I have as a Christian. Your pitiless view, though totally expected is a place I find great interest. What is Hinduism doing for the Dalits? Look it up.

AlAyeti wrote:

They are being killed by people that believe in an altogether different ethnocentric belief system.

Exactly my point. Ridding ourselves of ethnocentrism, encouragin worldcentrism, pluralism and aperspectivism is the way forward.

A free exchange of ideas is nothing I fear. I'd like to see a world of billions and billions of new Christians.

AlAyeti wrote:

The words (alledged fair enough) about peace, love or that there is a real hell? All three concepts "fundamenatally" presented in the Gospels? If a person truly believes in all three, isn't trying to educate others about that message a great comission? A "nice" thing to do? Even if you completely believe they are mistaken, isn't a grand attempt to spread the words of Christ?

Ah but that it were only these three. There is more isn't there...there is only one way to do things, only one way to 'salvation', only one way to meet the literalist, fundamentalist interpretation of the bible. That is not onbnly about 'these three' is it.

This is the point I make all over the country, even the most god-denying people know there is a defining point to what is and what isn't "real" Christianty. Not believing what Jesus said would disqualify a person from the "faith." Well said Bernee.

AlAyeti wrote:

Many people do not believe they need to go to College (and they don't really) but that word is "preached" incessantly in lower education and social and religious settings. Good advice should be spread even to those unwilling to hear it, no?

Talk away then leave the choices to them. It is a form of intolerance of 'fundamentalists' to wish to enforce their narrow ethocentric view on the rest of the world.

Really? Atheists in America have literally outlawed Christianty from the schools and public square. Watch what happens in America in about four weeks. Atheism is a totalitarina absolutist dogma. The ACLU is a very large "organization" and can be reached for comment.

AlAyeti wrote:

Quote:
I take exception to them wanting to include me in their choices.

Like AIDS? That kind of wanting to include in choice behavior and beliefs?

Of course.

AlAyeti wrote:

Or, terrorism?

This is a crime against humanity. Or 'freedom fighting'. Depends on one's political perspective.

It depends on how many rounds are in an AK-47. Missionaries carry no guns. Just food and guitars and Bibles.

Terrorism: the calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimindation or coercion or instilling fear.

Shock and awe, shock and awe.

Like the shock and awe that those civilians behaeded on Al Jezeera faced? That kind of shock and awe? Italso seems you know the accurate definition of Jihad. You do know your religions.

AlAyeti wrote:

"Fundamentalist" Christianty would perfectly cure both AIDS and treating your enemie with bombs, as neither is a fundamental truth of Fundamentalist Christianity.

One of the five yamas in Vedana is brahmacharya - it loosly translates as 'restraint', another is ahimsa - non-violence (in thought, word or deed), another is satya - truthfullness. You get the picture I'm sure.

Kind of odd an atheist presenting a comparison of religions. Please you do have a picture of Hindus gods right? I see you know your Hinduism as well. I stopped counting near a hundred in the "M's."
http://fullmoon_deities.tripod.com/hindu.html

AlAyeti wrote:

Imagine if the world embraced the real "fundamental" teachings of Jesus.

Imagine if the world embraced the philosophy of Vedanta (which is AFAIK compatible with all religions). We would have a world without label-sayers.

Like I said, just give me a fair playing field and I'll do allright.

AlAyeti wrote:
Certainly there would be no sex before marriage but also the elimination of disease and fatherless children. Both plagues on the world today.

Both have been around since 'creation'. Adopting a 'label' will not change that.

A I D S is a label whether you want to look or not. I would advise you to look at some labels. Some are deadly if ignored.

[AlAyeti]

AlAyeti wrote:
I counted four out of forty five.

Now, if any of these "Christian" orgs, mention that (you know who) are practicsing unnatural sex acts, and that "their religion," is being insulted by (you know what) on College campuses, what would happen to "their" freedom of assembly? Or what if these "Christian" orgs, did the same thing about (you know who) but used Anatomy, Physiology and Biology, to claim the same intellectual insult?

They would picketed and run out of town on a rail. I believe what is happening for now, is that Christians "are tolerated," but only if their seen and not heard. I'll endeavor to call the local college Christian orgs and ask this question. If I am wrong, I'll post it.

These Christian orgs would be given the same treatment as anyone else: what they talk about in their meetings is up to them. However, should they post slanderous or obscene material on university websites, then this would be challenged. Should they post such material on private websites, the university would ignore it.

So Christians have to deny science AND the Bible and then it would be OK for them to be around? Why is it that facts and proof cannot be pictured?

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
There really is a very strong fundamentalist movement at this time, as is evidenced by the wild outcry when good ol' Bush chose Harriet Miers for the supreme court.
The only "wild" outcry was from the educated elitists, that feel our gods need to come from Yale and Harvard. I watched all three big News Channels.

While it is true that there was considerable outcry from all over about her qualifications, the Christian Right claimed that she was not sufficiently right-wing. If there had not been rank discord within the Repubs, they would have pushed her on through.

I was deeply offended because the "Right" thought because she didn't go to Harvard or yale she couldn't do the job. I watched the debate very closely. I took notes.

AlAyeti wrote:
You may want to check out how open-minded are "Freethinkers-atheists-progressives-humanists-liberals-theists-deists-socialists-Democrats . . . etc., etc., etc.. Now there is lock step ideology. Everytime I look at the little doggie figurine on some car dashboards I think of these people's view on abortion, same-sex marriage, socialism, drug use, incredibly high taxes etc.,etc..

I kinda like high taxes for people who make vast amounts of money. As it is, many of them pay less than I do, because they can afford all the loopholes. But if you look around, with your eyes open, you'll find that there is tremendous diversity of opinion among these multiple groups that you've mentioned.

I'll take ANOTHER look. Taxing the rich is not the problems in social areas. It is lascivious licentiousness and it is brought on by personal choices. Do away with "what" the Dems want to use the taxes for and there will be little reason for taxing anyone heavily.

AlAyeti wrote:
But, the behavior of society is more like Sodom and Gomorrah. A couple thousand

years before Jesus (AD).

Only if you believe there ever were such places.

I may at one time believed they might have been allegory, but because I spent so much time in Hollywood I know they are indeed as real as bath houses. If I'm dreaming that men are demanding to marry men AND want to raise children PLEASE wake me up! Im actually going back further to Noah's pre-flood days for a comparison of today's world.

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
The simple rules no longer do the job. The world is more complex than it ever used to be. Everything has so many variables, and so many unknowns, that it is absolutely necessary to evaluate all possibilities, and all points of view, before deciding on action. Relativism? You bet! That's what works.

It certainly is failing the children that literally fill our criminal justice system, jails and mental institutions. Please, please make a few calls. There are absolutes that work. But they are being redefined because Relativism is now more religion than pragmatic outlook.

What is failing the children who are ending up in jails is the refusal of the majority to support schools. There are, indeed, absolutes. If you absolutely refuse to give kids a decent education, you are absolutely guaranteed that they will be unable to support themselves when they grow up. The weird thing is that the R's strategy for this is to punish the teachers whom they fail to provide with adequate facilities. [Oh, I forgot. Sorry. That's their strategy to get rid of public education, and with it the teachers' unions, which vote Democratic.]

Jose, you are a fine person but schools cannot raise children. My wife is a school teacher. The kids have NO homes anymore. Just some bastardized horror of what used to be the only place children did their homework. Now, these kids have chaos as a scientific fact and no fathers which is another fact. And the children are suffering and our future is bleak. BUT, same-sex marriage will have the votes it needs to be legalized in just a few short years when these children of licentiousness get to vote "their conscience."

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
They are efforts to retain the accurate teaching of science, which is labeled "indoctrination in godless materialism." They are efforts to retain the accurate teaching of health, as students become old enough that they have to face the increasingly treacherous waters of puberty and sexual maturity, which is labeled "pederasty and training in licentious hedonism."
Anyone not watching who is minding the store (or Church) is not a good parent. Pedophiles are always found around children and are usually in the place of leadership.

Then shouldn't we watch out for pedophiles, rather than label everyone who tries to work with children by that name? You have raised a legitimate worry here, but you destroy your credibility by applying it to everyone.

Anyone that teaches deviant and aberrant sexuality to our youth is not anyone I trust. In the schools we should use the scientific method and stick to facts not perversion. I stand firm on this. I debated a famous gay radio host on this very issue.

AlAyeti wrote:
The healthy teaching of science is to not teach it as a means to destroy God. And sexuality in the education setting comes from the "sciences" of Anatomy, Physiology and Biology. Bonobos should not be role models for children to follow in the footsteps of a generation that literally killed themselves through "unnatural" and "hedonistic licentiousness." If we are to teach children in SCHOOLS, then let's teach them truth and facts!

And the truth and facts are that science has nothing to do with god, and never has been a means to destroy god. There is no such thing. If Fundamentalist Christians prefer to ignore faith of the majority of Christians, that's up to them. They are flat-out wrong when they claim that anything about science attempts to destroy god. All that science does, and all that it can do, is present facts and truth, and our current best interpretation of those facts.

I think science is the best defense to prove that Christians are not bigots about sexual deviant behavior and life in the womb.

Do they actually teach about the sexual practices of Bonobos in middle and high school? I haven't heard that they do, and I've talked to a lot of science teachers. Even if they did, who would be silly enough to think that this would be a "role model"?

I've read that here on these boards. Why shouldn't humans do it? Bonobos do? That is about as ridiculous an argument as it gets. I love to see the Bonobo brought up. It gives my point solid backing.

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
They are efforts to retain equal treatment under the law, not only for white Christian males, but also for women, and for people of all races and economic backgrounds.
These are the days when being white is seen as a hate crime in and of itself and being a white male is seen as a monster of intolerance. Yet, it was white men that created this system by which everyone is arguing about this or that. Certainly a great acomplishment that needs to be recogognized and not denigrated. How many people are illegal aliens on other continents.

There is some truth to what you say, that some people consider white males to be monsters of intolerance, by definition. There still remains the fact of lower pay for women, the fact that the highest-paying jobs are mostly held by white men, and that people who are not white men are automatically assumed to be less capable. It is not necessarily white men who are forcing this onto us, but an overall cultural tradition with decades of history behind it. That's why it is so important to make people aware of the kneejerk, unexamined reasons that we behave the way we do.

I totally agree.

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
They are efforts to have people treated as people, even when their neurobiology is more commonly associated with external sex characteristics of the opposite sex.

Pedophiles have a neurobiolgy absolutely judged by their external sex characteristsics. And in fact "they" want to be part of this new kind of "relativism." They get into the new world of diversity too? They ARE seeking this "civil right."

We aren't talking about pedophiles. They may be saddled with neurobiological issues that make them behave the way they do, but since their behavior is damaging to other people, it is rightly judged by society and by laws to be wrong. However, when people's behavior in no way influences anyone else, why should we get all hot and bothered about what we imagine they might be doing when we aren't looking?

When it comes marching down main street it becomes an issue for everyone to comment on. And in those Gay Pride parades are Man-Boy Love guys a marchin' along. There is nothing that the homosexual comunity can do to remove the history of Pederasty from either the male or female side of it. It is a fact. Sappho, the woman Lesbians follow, seemed to have a thing for her students who were young women. Although oddly, Sappho was married to a man and had a child. Hmm?

///

AlAyeti wrote:
At no time in history even in the most licentious and hedonistic civilizations has the family NOT been man-woman-and their children. It is not bigotry to view the family by what works BY biological design. It is intolerant to think it can be forced to change by minority protest. That opens the door to the proverbial slippery slope to be a world wide slide.

Actually, in a huge number of older cultures and some current ones, family has been defined as parents, kids, grandparents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, etc. It's what we now call the "extended family." Our particular aberration of the family, insisting that only the "nuclear" family is "right," probably bears a lot of responsibility for the problems you currently rail against. In a tiny nuclear family, if two people don't get along, they end up fighting. In a larger extended family, there is another family member that each of them can go to. There is a greater opportunity for loving family relationships, and more opportunities to defuse anger and mis-communication. As it is, kids have parents, maybe some siblings, and they have The Street. Street culture has taken over where loving (extended) family used to be.

And here comes the caveat!

Against this background--and even in the context of current tradition--having some guys down the street who are living together in no way perturbs my own marriage. I really can't see why you care.

Children deserve a mother and a father. It is their developing brains that no one as yet has any idea what will form in them. Not to mention sexuality completely shattered. I think that the prophetic and the psychological are going to see a big problem. It is already wierd enough on MTV.

AlAyeti wrote:
For a hundred years Christmas Carolers went door to door. Now that is seen as intolerance. Literally.

There are several possibilities, if this is true. One is that most people can't sing. Listening to dissonance is intolerable. Another possibility is that the US is not as homogeneous as it was long ago. We've pretended that we are a melting pot, and that we welcome immigrants--at least, up until recently.

Now we are an intolerant society? Also the ire about immigrrants is that they have desire to melt in. Every other culture learned english and now our country has been divided. How does the saying go? A Country didvided . . .

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
Some of this is alluded to above, such as teaching science accurately, or living with the person god has chosen as your partner.
Sexual orientation is determined by genitalia according to the God of nature.

See? This is why you talked about pedophilia before. You have no answer to the fact that sexual orientation is determined in the brain, other than to say "is not!" Now why would that be? It must be that the god of nature chooses for it to be. It must be that your god purposely makes people homosexual, purposely making their brain not match their genitals. So what if someone "looks" like a man, if his actual being is that of a woman? Just because it looks weird to you, doesn't mean that it's weird to god. And yet you judge these people of god's as if you knew better than god does.

Most mental disorders are sought after to be cured. Why not the homosexual disorder. It may no longer be a mental disease but certainly it is a malformed brain, IF, the genitalia and chromosomes match up. That is if we use science and not emotionalism about the homosexual issue.

AlAyeti wrote:
The silencing of Christians is a fact. The ACLU will be starting up again at the beginning of December. Empiricism is a good place to see a lack of menatl illness. A myth and fairy tale should not be offensive and certainly shouldn't have an all-powerful "Civil Rights" organization after it.

The silencing of anyone should be fact, and should be greatly desired, if they are attempting to force inappropriate things onto others. If it's the KKK forcing death or maiming onto someone who merely happens to have darker skin, then the ACLU should defend that person against the intolerance of the KKK. If someone is attacked by Christians, then the ACLU should defend that person against said Christians. If a Christian is attacked by atheists, then the ACLU should defend that Christian against the atheists.

That was more spin than an answer. Christians are not forcing anyone to do anything. They are doing what thye have been doing in this country for a long time. Now, there is a new sherriff in town and he ain't no Christian. Christians are indeed under the gun. Hate crimes legislation is designed to silence the Gospels, and of course the Book of Romans.

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
More likely, it follows logically from some Rube-Goldberg domino effect, like "teaching evolution teaches that there was death before the Fall, and therefore teaches that there can be no Salvation, so everyone will abandon the morals that god gave them, and they will become feminists." (Essentially as presented in the fundamentalist pamphlets of the 1920's, which did, indeed, blame feminsim on the teaching of evolution).

Have you been outside in the real world? Now a "married woman" can kill her and her husbands child without his say so. But in Virginia, a man has to get his wife's permission to have a vasectomy. And all of those "fatherless" children in the criminal courts system and mental institutions? Feminism has put those children in a hellish world while other EVEN LESS fortunate children got torn to pieces (if lucky) or thrown into stainless steel bins while still "alive" (the unlucky).

You choose your examples so well. "Feminism" attempts to help those women get out of the trap that they are in. Unfortunately, part of that trap is established by scripture, which tells us not to let women participate in a variety of affairs better left to men. As a result, efforts to better the lot of women are seen as anti-Christian.

A Christian supporting abortion is sen as anti-Christian. Other than that Christian women are famous for their large gatherings to procliam their happiness in their chosen lives.

It might be worthwhile going outside into the real world, and finding out what the lives of many of these women are like, and what the attitudes are of the men with whom they must live.

I have lived a life in Hollywood as cliche as it gets, and I have a life now as "Christian" as it gets. I've been there, done that, and still have T-Shirts from Queen concerts! You'll need to bark up another empirical tree.

AlAyeti wrote:
Jose wrote:
So, why not verbally attack the Scientologists instead? Well, frankly, because they aren't trying to force us to do their bidding. They have more subtle techniques.
"Subtle techniques" the very words to define "relativism" and what it has done to our planet.

Oh, they're not relativists at all. It's very clear who is on whose side, and the circumstances in which it is perfectly acceptable to lie to people who are not among the chosen. They really are very good at getting people into their group, and then further ensnaring them. Oddly, they don't use threats of an eternity in hell, vs eternal paradise. Maybe that's why there aren't as many of them.

No, professors use threats of failing grades to brain-wash young minds. I didn't develope the concept of bobbleheads. It is something easily seen at most "secular" Colleges and Universities.
_________________

[micatala]

Quote:
There is no relationship whatsoever between teaching sound science and killing babies.

That is a mistke or a wrong assertion. Evolution took God out of the mix. Some kind of sound science is used to excuse away the murder of the child because some misguided and ignorant people believe that the human being growing inside a mother is "just a mass of cells," which of course we know that better sound science has disproven.

The first assertion is correct. Al, your assertion is wrong on many counts.

Evolution did not take God out of the mix. It may not square with your particular version of God, but conservative fundamentalist Christians have no right to define God for everyone else. This statement is bogus, fallacious, subjective, and not based in any sense on fact or sound thinking.

Show me one person who decided to have an abortion BECAUSE of their belief in evolution. I would bet you can't find EVEN ONE, never mind establishing anything but the most fanciful, imaginary, and speculative links between evolution and abortion.

Quote:
Yet, there were some Christians who imagined that there is, and attacked the school board because they imagined that the school board was anti-Christian, and was attacking them.

Most (if not all) evolutionists are anti-Christians. Certainly Darwin was. So connecting the dots is only prudent and sound reasoning.

For a guy who complains constantly about denigration and unfair accusations, you certainly know how to dish it out. If you put in 'all', this is a out and out lie, period, end of story.

There is no sound reasoning in this statement, only unsubstantiated assertions. If an 'evolutionist' is a person who accepts the fact of evolution, than I would ask that you produce a poll or other data showing that most evolutionists are against Christianity. Otherwise retract this.

I will point out that just today, one of the most Christian statesman in U.S. history was on the radio. He said flat out he saw no contradiction between evolution and the Bible. This person is steeped in the Southern Baptist tradition, and has devoted his later life to serving the poor and furthering democracy around the world. Your statement is an insult to this fine man, and other millions of committed CHristians around the world.

Quote:
You'd think this kind of thing could be resolved by sitting down and discussing things. Unfortunately, that's not acceptable to those who believe in "Absolutes" and believe that their personal "Absolutes" are the only ones that are right.

Evolutionists are as closed-minded as it gets. Give me a break. Talk about absolutists. They have a pitbull called the ACLU to prove it.

Another ridiculous statement. I doubt you have any really empirical data to back up the first sentence.

The ACLU defends free speech. It has nothing to do with evolution.

You don't need a 'break.' You need to stop making wild and unsubstantiated assertions that seem only to be a product of your own misperceptions of reality and imagination.

[bernee51]

AlAyeti wrote:

Quote:
'Fundamentalists' believe that their worldview is, in fact, the only valid world view
.

That is an accurate description of what the Gospels and New Testament presents.

Quote:
problem is it is not a 'worldview' at all. It is a narrow socio/ethnocentric view.
That is also an accurate opinion of what is presented as a fact in the New Testament.

Quote:
The 'we are right and the rest are wrong' type of view.

This is an inorrect assertion, the followers of Christ believe that Jesus was God and that what is quoted of Him is what He viewed as right and wrong.


The fact that youi agreed with the first two assertions demonstrates than, indeed the third is also correct. If you hold with the first two you canot possibly agree that others might be 'right'.

This is the problem with agreeing with anything by an absolutist. You see Bernee, your whole point seems intolerant to anything a Christian presnts unless it agrees with everything you say and want.

You are not talking to an absolutist. Turning it around does not work Al. It is those that profess a 'fundamentalist' agenda who are absolutist. I have no problems with fundamentalists being 'fundamental' with their own. They can be as absolute as they like. All I ask is that they not pretend to impose their absolutist way of life on the rest of the community who do not choose that path.

To call me an absolutist because I support a pluralist, aperpectival worldview does not make sense.

AlAyeti wrote:

Big difference. Also many "fundamentalists" are meeting their death these days for trying to bring that "news" to other people in the world.

Such a terrible waste of life - don't you agree? They would be better off satyoing at home and raising good christian kids or working to beetr the live of compatriots.

What is Hinduism doing for the Dalits? Look it up.

I have and this we have already discussed.

AlAyeti wrote:

Exactly my point. Ridding ourselves of ethnocentrism, encouragin worldcentrism, pluralism and aperspectivism is the way forward.

A free exchange of ideas is nothing I fear. I'd like to see a world of billions and billions of new Christians.

I've no doubt you would. Is christianity as you see it ethno/sociocentric? Is it Pluralist? Is it aperspecival? Methinks the answer is no to each of these.

I'd like to see a world free of label-sayers. That is the only way to peace.

Human identity is superior to religious identity.

Kind of odd an atheist presenting a comparison of religions. Please you do have a picture of Hindus gods right? I see you know your Hinduism as well. I stopped counting near a hundred in the "M's."
http://fullmoon_deities.tripod.com/hindu.html

I was not talking about hinduism. I was not comparing religions. I was pointing out the value of following some of the precepts of a philosophy such as Vedanta.

BTW all those 'gods' in Hinduism are not 'gods' in a literal sense. They are manifestations of aspects of the divine. This we have also discussed before.

Like I said, just give me a fair playing field and I'll do allright.

You have a fair playing field - you want special privledges.

A I D S is a label whether you want to look or not. I would advise you to look at some labels. Some are deadly if ignored.

Aids is a disease and an illness. The first is a medical description the second societal. You are labelling - you are only seeing the illness.