"Slavery" in the Bible

Argue for and against Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1355 times

"Slavery" in the Bible

Post #1

Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1355 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #681

Post by POI »

A Freeman wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 3:46 am Hopefully, these four posts (this one and the three above it) should illustrate how utterly ridiculous it is for someone to come and whine about God's Perfect Royal Law of Liberty, and falsely claim it supports life-long slavery
This statement is false. I provided the verses which explicitly states that the Bible does indeed endorse/condone both lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. You just continue to ignore them.
A Freeman wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 3:46 am P.P.S. Please also see: viewtopic.php?p=1171534#p1171534
...which seems to have been completely ignored, along with everything else shared above about our current system of institutionalized slavery.
I did not ignore this post. I responded in post #666, and you simply moved on elsewhere. You want to water down the term 'slavery.' I do not blame you. This then is your attempt to get yourself off the hook for what you know the Bible specifically endorses.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

A Freeman
Banned
Banned
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:03 am
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #682

Post by A Freeman »

Exodus 21
21:1 Now these [are] the Judgments which thou shalt set before them.
21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
21:3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
21:5 And IF the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath married her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
21:9 And if he hath betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
21:10 If he take him another [wife]; her food, her clothing, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be SURELY put to death.
21:13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver [him] into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place where he shall flee.
21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die.
21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall SURELY be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
21:18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with [his] fist, and he die not, but keepeth [his] bed:
21:19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote [him] be quit: only he shall pay [for] the loss of his time, and shall cause [him] to be thoroughly healed.
21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be SURELY punished.
21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he [is] his money.
21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [from her], and yet no mischief follow: he shall be SURELY punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].
21:23 And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
21:27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox [shall be] quit.
21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.
21:30 If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.
21:31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this Judgment shall it be done unto him.
21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
21:33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;
21:34 The owner of the pit shall make [it] good, [and] give money unto the owner of them; and the dead [beast] shall be his.
21:35 And if one man's ox hurt another's, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead [ox] also they shall divide.
21:36 Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.

The term that some have deceitfully mistranslated as "slave" is the Hebrew word עֶ֣בֶד (‘e-ḇeḏ), which means SERVANT.

In this context, a servant is someone who is privately employed to provide domestic services.

Today, people still have PAID servants and maids, many of which work their entire lives against their will, because they have no other way to support themselves.

In stark contrast, and as previously shared, under God's Law, someone who has made poor decisions that have landed them in debt they cannot repay would work for another for 6 years, at the end of which they would choose -- of their own free-will -- to either stay with their master/teacher and his family because they loved it there, or they were free to leave. If they chose the latter, they were not only free from their debt, but they were also given everything they needed to take care of themselves for the rest of their lives.

Deuteronomy 15:12-15
15:12 [And] if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.
15:13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt NOT let him go away empty:
15:14 Thou shalt furnish him LIBERALLY out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: [of that] wherewith the "I AM" thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.
15:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a slave in the land of Egypt, and the "I AM" thy God redeemed (released) thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day.

It should be self-evident that NONE of the above is referring to Involuntary servitude, aka slavery, nor is it referring to chattel slavery, where someone is forced to labour against their will to benefit another.

Again, the question is this:

How many of you today are working against your will for an "employer", just to be able to put a roof over your head and food on the table? How many are living in abject poverty?

In the "land of the free", there are today tens of millions living in poverty, including children, in a system that is utterly corrupt to its core.

https://www.census.gov/library/publicat ... 0-283.html

And again, by stark contrast, God's Law provides short-term and long-term debt relief, which is the ONLY Way to eliminate poverty, and the crime that poverty causes.

Deuteronomy 15:4 TO THE END THAT THERE BE NO POOR AMONG YOU; for the "I AM" shall greatly bless thee in the land which the "I AM" thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance to possess it:

But for those who mistakenly believe they are free, and/or want to pretend that up is allegedly down, and freedom is allegedly slavery, and good is allegedly evil, etc., they will continue to attack that which they clearly don't understand, to promote the lies and the deceit they prefer to the truth.

Isaiah 30:8-13
30:8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a Book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
30:9 That this [is] a rebellious people, lying children, children [that] will not hear The Law of the "I AM":
30:10 Which say to the Seers, See not; and to the Prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits (lies):
30:11 Get you out of The Way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this Word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to YOU as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

User avatar
Difflugia
Prodigy
Posts: 3780
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 4084 times
Been thanked: 2430 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #683

Post by Difflugia »

A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 amThe term that some have deceitfully mistranslated as "slave" is the Hebrew word עֶ֣בֶד (‘e-ḇeḏ), which means SERVANT.
Slave and servant were, indeed, at one time the same. What's deceitful is that some claim that biblical servants were paid. Not all slaves were servants, but all servants were slaves.
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 amIn this context, a servant is someone who is privately employed to provide domestic services.
You need to support this claim.
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

A Freeman
Banned
Banned
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:03 am
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #684

Post by A Freeman »

From: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/slave

slave (slāv)
n.
1. One who is owned as the property of someone else, especially in involuntary servitude.

-------

From: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/servant

ser·vant (sûr′vənt)
n.
1. One who is privately employed to perform domestic services.

-------

From: https://thisvsthat.io/servant-vs-slave
Servant vs. Slave
What's the Difference?

Servant and slave are two terms often used to describe individuals who perform labor or service for others. However, there are distinct differences between the two. A servant typically works for wages or a salary and has the freedom to choose their occupation and employer*. They have certain rights and can negotiate the terms of their employment. On the other hand, a slave is someone who is owned by another person and is considered their property. Slavery involves the complete loss of personal freedom and autonomy, with slaves being forced to work without pay and subjected to harsh treatment. While both servants and slaves may perform similar tasks, the fundamental distinction lies in the level of control and ownership exerted over them.

*Deuteronomy 15:12-15
15:12 [And] if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.
15:13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt not let him go away empty:
15:14 Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: [of that] wherewith the "I AM" thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.
15:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a slave in the land of Egypt, and the "I AM" thy God redeemed (released) thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day.

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1355 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #685

Post by POI »

Please take careful note of the title for this topic. Please notice the context. Please note I placed the term 'slavery' in quotes. Why? Because language is not always back and white. You, of all people, should be well aware that context matters. So please, stop with the red herring and strawman arguments, and instead address THIS topic.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery? yes or no?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves? Yes or no?

Since you have avoided answering these direct debate questions, basically demonstrates a complete omission -- in acknowledging that the Bible is a-okay with both lifetime chattel slavery, as the definition has been provided in the OP. And the Bible is also a-okay with slave masters breeding new slaves.

Now to address the desired and designed distraction(s).... :)
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 am Exodus 21
21:1 Now these [are] the Judgments which thou shalt set before them.
21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
21:3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
21:5 And IF the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
21:8 If she please not her master, who hath married her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
21:9 And if he hath betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
21:10 If he take him another [wife]; her food, her clothing, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.
21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be SURELY put to death.
21:13 And if a man lie not in wait, but God deliver [him] into his hand; then I will appoint thee a place where he shall flee.
21:14 But if a man come presumptuously upon his neighbour, to slay him with guile; thou shalt take him from Mine altar, that he may die.
21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall SURELY be put to death.
21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
21:18 And if men strive together, and one smite another with a stone, or with [his] fist, and he die not, but keepeth [his] bed:
21:19 If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote [him] be quit: only he shall pay [for] the loss of his time, and shall cause [him] to be thoroughly healed.
21:20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be SURELY punished.
21:21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he [is] his money.
21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [from her], and yet no mischief follow: he shall be SURELY punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine].
21:23 And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
21:24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
21:25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
21:26 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake.
21:27 And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
21:28 If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox [shall be] quit.
21:29 But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.
21:30 If there be laid on him a sum of money, then he shall give for the ransom of his life whatsoever is laid upon him.
21:31 Whether he have gored a son, or have gored a daughter, according to this Judgment shall it be done unto him.
21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver, and the ox shall be stoned.
21:33 And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;
21:34 The owner of the pit shall make [it] good, [and] give money unto the owner of them; and the dead [beast] shall be his.
21:35 And if one man's ox hurt another's, that he die; then they shall sell the live ox, and divide the money of it; and the dead [ox] also they shall divide.
21:36 Or if it be known that the ox hath used to push in time past, and his owner hath not kept him in; he shall surely pay ox for ox; and the dead shall be his own.

The term that some have deceitfully mistranslated as "slave" is the Hebrew word עֶ֣בֶד (‘e-ḇeḏ), which means SERVANT.

In this context, a servant is someone who is privately employed to provide domestic services.
In this context, some servants/slaves. or whatever term you wish to use, can never go free. Which means they cannot quit, retire, or other. I also doubt they can take vacation(s) and go on sick leave, or maternity leave, etc.... Pretty shady 'employment'. Remember, you are the one bringing up context. When you read Exodus 21, in context, you will see what I am referring to... See the parts above in red.
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 am Today, people still have PAID servants and maids, many of which work their entire lives against their will, because they have no other way to support themselves.
Again, context. Please re-read the Exodus verses I highlighted above in red. Daughters, some women, and all offspring are instructed that they cannot leave. Circumstance is irrelevant. They have no choice.
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 am In stark contrast, and as previously shared, under God's Law, someone who has made poor decisions that have landed them in debt they cannot repay would work for another for 6 years, at the end of which they would choose -- of their own free-will -- to either stay with their master/teacher and his family because they loved it there, or they were free to leave. If they chose the latter, they were not only free from their debt, but they were also given everything they needed to take care of themselves for the rest of their lives.

Deuteronomy 15:12-15
15:12 [And] if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman, be sold unto thee, and serve thee six years; then in the seventh year thou shalt let him go free from thee.
15:13 And when thou sendest him out free from thee, thou shalt NOT let him go away empty:
15:14 Thou shalt furnish him LIBERALLY out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: [of that] wherewith the "I AM" thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.
15:15 And thou shalt remember that thou wast a slave in the land of Egypt, and the "I AM" thy God redeemed (released) thee: therefore I command thee this thing to day.

It should be self-evident that NONE of the above is referring to Involuntary servitude, aka slavery, nor is it referring to chattel slavery, where someone is forced to labour against their will to benefit another.
Right. It's all context. Like I stated prior, the instruction is vast. However, if you read Leviticus 25:44-46, the context differs greatly. Such (servants/slaves/other) are instead deemed the master's property for life, and the master may keep them for life. Nowhere here is the "servant/slave" being offered a choice as to whether or not they would ever want to leave.
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 am How many of you today are working against your will for an "employer", just to be able to put a roof over your head and food on the table? How many are living in abject poverty?
Apples and oranges. Even IF everything said here were true, the employee can seek new employment and change their employer.  If not, then they are held against their will. And in the context of the Bible, some are not allowed to leave. Which means they are to stay against their will. Example... If a new factory was to open up, who is hiring, which offers better wages and more benefits, if they are not allowed to leave their current employer, ever, to seek employment elsewhere, then they are held against their will, in a completely different way than what you are referring to. Again, it's all about context. And it is clear you are being intellectually dishonest. Readers can see this...

I'll stop here, as I'm growing tired of the red herring and strawman argumentation.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

A Freeman
Banned
Banned
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:03 am
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #686

Post by A Freeman »

You clearly don't know the difference between a servant and a slave, even after you've been provided the definitions of what those terms really mean.

How can you pretend to be in a position to teach others anything about slavery when you don't even know what it is or how it differs from being a servant?

Matthew 20:25-28
20:25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
20:26 But it shall NOT be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your SERVANT;
20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your SERVANT:
20:28 Even as the Son of Man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

How can you pretend to be in a position to teach others anything about a Law you clearly know nothing about?

Deuteronomy 24:14-15
24:14 Thou shalt NOT oppress an hired servant [that is] poor and needy, [whether he be] of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that [are] in thy land within thy gates:
24:15 At his day thou shalt give [him] his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he [is] poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the "I AM", and it be sin unto thee.

The only one here hypocritically throwing red herrings and strawman arguments out is YOU.

Deuteronomy 32:36 For the "I AM" shall judge His people (Isaiah chapter 3:12 to 4:6; & ch. 42), and repent Himself for His servants, when He seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the "I AM", choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the "I AM".


User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1355 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #687

Post by POI »

A Freeman wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 6:51 am You clearly don't know the difference between a servant and a slave, even after you've been provided the definitions of what those terms really mean.
Allow me to completely steelman your position.

In the Bible, "servant" can refer to a variety of roles, including slaves, hired workers, and those who serve in obedience to a higher authority. AGAIN, this is why I placed the term 'slavery' in 'quotes' within the initial title of this topic. The term 'slavery' is nuanced and needs further context, per situation. The term "servant" also describes those who humbly address God in prayer or are used as instruments of God's purposes. The concept of 'servanthood' emphasizes obedience, action, and a willingness to be used by God, even to the point of self-sacrifice. All your Bible examples can argue for the above.

However, these are not the verses I'm referring to. The Bible also condones specifics and nuances for which you'd rather avoid. A matter of fact, two categories exist in which you continue to completely duck. These specifics were provided in the OP. I further highlighted some of these specific commands in red, via Exodus 21. And now, you simply avoid them and instead move on to another part of the Bible. Yet again, unanswered for about eight times and counting...

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery? Yes, it does. See Leviticus 25:46-48. Agreed?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves? Yes, it does. See Exodus 21:4-6. Agreed?
A Freeman wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 6:51 am How can you pretend to be in a position to teach others anything about slavery when you don't even know what it is or how it differs from being a servant?
See above.
A Freeman wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 6:51 am Matthew 20:25-28
20:25 But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
20:26 But it shall NOT be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your SERVANT;
20:27 And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your SERVANT:
20:28 Even as the Son of Man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

How can you pretend to be in a position to teach others anything about a Law you clearly know nothing about?
See above, as each command is nuanced and requires context, as I already explained in my prior response as well.
A Freeman wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 6:51 am Deuteronomy 24:14-15
24:14 Thou shalt NOT oppress an hired servant [that is] poor and needy, [whether he be] of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that [are] in thy land within thy gates:
24:15 At his day thou shalt give [him] his hire, neither shall the sun go down upon it; for he [is] poor, and setteth his heart upon it: lest he cry against thee unto the "I AM", and it be sin unto thee.

The only one here hypocritically throwing red herrings and strawman arguments out is YOU.
Negative. See above, as each command is nuanced and requires context, as I already explained in my prior response as well. A bred "slave" is not hired. Everything issued here addresses nothing from my OP.
A Freeman wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 6:51 am Deuteronomy 32:36 For the "I AM" shall judge His people (Isaiah chapter 3:12 to 4:6; & ch. 42), and repent Himself for His servants, when He seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the "I AM", choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the "I AM".
Again, irrelevant and addresses nothing from the OP.
Last edited by POI on Wed May 21, 2025 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1355 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #688

Post by POI »

Difflugia wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 12:34 pm
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 amThe term that some have deceitfully mistranslated as "slave" is the Hebrew word עֶ֣בֶד (‘e-ḇeḏ), which means SERVANT.
Slave and servant were, indeed, at one time the same. What's deceitful is that some claim that biblical servants were paid. Not all slaves were servants, but all servants were slaves.
A Freeman wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:11 amIn this context, a servant is someone who is privately employed to provide domestic services.
You need to support this claim.
"A Freeman" is suspiciously avoiding your reply because he knows he cannot support his claim(s). Some "slaves" in the Bible were not paid a wage. A matter of fact, some were even born into slavery and deemed the master's property. While some slaves might have received small amounts of money for extra work, or through being hired out by their master, this was the exception, not the rule.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

A Freeman
Banned
Banned
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2025 8:03 am
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #689

Post by A Freeman »

"God made men. Men made slaves".

- John Derek as Joshua in the epic 1956 Cecil B. DeMille film "The Ten Commandments"

User avatar
POI
Prodigy
Posts: 4948
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:22 pm
Has thanked: 1906 times
Been thanked: 1355 times

Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #690

Post by POI »

A Freeman wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 3:34 am "God made men. Men made slaves".

- John Derek as Joshua in the epic 1956 Cecil B. DeMille film "The Ten Commandments"
Right, and the Bible endorses some lifetime chattel slavery, as well as some slave breeding.
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

Post Reply