"Slavery" in the Bible

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"Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by POI »

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7. :ok:

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #641

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:13 am
POI wrote: Mon Mar 24, 2025 3:18 am ...I'm speaking about a very specific type of slavery. The kind the Bible specifically okays, which is humans owning other humans as property for life. Humans in which can also be beaten with impunity. ....
Also governments, the owners of the tax slaves, can beat their people with impunity, they can even kill people with impunity. For example Ashli Babbitt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ashli_Babbitt
You are offering a complete red herring argument here. I offered an explanation, in which you completely skipped. Here it is again:

And even if these terms were the same, which they are not, 1213's argument still completely falls apart. Citizens can express disagreement with current law(s). Amendments to these laws can later take place, Heck, the powers-that-be can even change the current laws by executive order. Etc etc etc....

The Christian, on the other hand, has absolutely no such liberties. Not only must they express complete agreement with all given commands/allowances - as given, but these laws/allowances can never be changed. Hence, the excuses abound from the believers.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #642

Post by Difflugia »

1213 wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:11 amYes, I don't see any meaningful difference in it, if person must work for someone else. Obviously they are not exactly the same,
Obviously.
1213 wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:11 ambecause slave didn't have to buy his food and rent like modern slaves must do.
Or choose what to eat or where to live or what kind of work to do or for whom to do it, like modern slaves must do.
1213 wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:11 amgets little money...
Your indictment of modern capitalism is insightful, but off topic in a thread nominally about biblical notions of slavery.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #643

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 6:14 am ...Citizens can express disagreement with current law(s). Amendments to these laws can later take place, Heck, the powers-that-be can even change the current laws by executive order. Etc etc etc....
Maybe in some ways, but never they will get freed from the tax oppression on their own. And also the "real" slaves, they also could have disagreed, and if people obeyed the Bible, they would have had better chance to get free.
POI wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 6:14 am The Christian, on the other hand, has absolutely no such liberties. Not only must they express complete agreement with all given commands/allowances - as given, but these laws/allowances can never be changed. Hence, the excuses abound from the believers.
For Christians there are basically two commandments. Why would anyone want to change them and also be a Christian?

Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
Matt. 22:37-40
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet,"{TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"} and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #644

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 6:06 am ... The Bible condones humans owning other humans as chattel slaves for life, rather than to condemn this practice. ...
If one obeys the whole Bible, it is possible to own a slave only if the slave accepts it. By the conditions given in the Bible, I can accept it. However, I think it would be good to notice also this:

You were redeemed with a price; do not become slaves of men.
1 Cor. 7:23
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #645

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Tue Mar 25, 2025 3:13 am Commands and commandment are in my opinion about the same. If someone commands something, it can be called a commandment.
Are you glad chattel slavery is now abolished in most areas, or not? Or, do you instead wish chattel slavery was still allowed? Because the 'command' is that it should be allowed.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #646

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:13 am Maybe in some ways
Exactly. The Bible, on the other hand, has no wiggle room. This is why you have to use 'apologetics' or mental gymnastics to rationalize the kinds of chattel slavery in which the Bible condones.
1213 wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:13 am but never they will get freed from the tax oppression on their own. And also the "real" slaves, they also could have disagreed, and if people obeyed the Bible, they would have had better chance to get free.
The Bible condones both 1) lifetime chattel slavery, and 2) slave breeding. Deal with it. :) See above....
1213 wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:13 am For Christians there are basically two commandments. Why would anyone want to change them and also be a Christian?

Jesus said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
Matt. 22:37-40
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet,"{TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"} and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3
Loving your god and loving each other was already expressed in the Torah, alongside of also condoning lifetime chattel slavery and slave breeding. :shock: And as I've mentioned repeatedly, the rules are not equal or the same for all.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #647

Post by POI »

1213 wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:14 am If one obeys the whole Bible, it is possible to own a slave only if the slave accepts it.
False. Some slaves have no say. Only the slave master does. Just like us taxpayers have no say, only the 'government' does. :)

Leviticus 25:44-46 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #648

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 12:00 pm
1213 wrote: Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:14 am If one obeys the whole Bible, it is possible to own a slave only if the slave accepts it.
False. Some slaves have no say. Only the slave master does. Just like us taxpayers have no say, only the 'government' does. :)

Leviticus 25:44-46 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
I don't think that is in contradiction with my saying. People were allowed to have slaves for life, but not without any conditions.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

Post #649

Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:52 am ...And as I've mentioned repeatedly, the rules are not equal or the same for all.
Sorry, you are not the authority in this case. If Bible doesn't say law is not equal to all, the law is equal to all.
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Re: "Slavery" in the Bible

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Post by 1213 »

POI wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 11:43 am Are you glad chattel slavery is now abolished in most areas, or not? Or, do you instead wish chattel slavery was still allowed? Because the 'command' is that it should be allowed.
I think mandatory taxation makes people slaves and therefore slavery is not abolished. I think it would not be a problem if it is allowed, if people obey also every other rule in the Bible. The problem comes when people ignore all the rules that prevents them oppressing others.
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