Would you kill for god?

[McCulloch]

If you belive the bible, god has directed people to kill others, both individually (Abraham) and collectively (Joshua).
So, if god asked you to kill someone, would you?
How would you be sure that he really wants you to do it, after all he has asked it before of others?

[Cmass]

Question: Why does God ask anyone to kill for him? He is clearly capable of doing it himself - sometimes with great drama as with a global flood. Is it some kind of bizarre allegiance ritual like when Tony Soprano makes one of his "team" members kill someone to prove they are worthy of joining the group?
The politics of death - whether through conventional or religious politics - are what will eventually kill off our species.

[Greatest I Am]

The story of Abraham has nothing to do with killing of ones offspring. I think that the moral of the story is that there should not be a limit to what we will do for God. Children of that day, especially sons were greatly valued. This is why this story is the epitome of what God wants from us. Total love and obedience.
The first commandment says it all.

A few thoughts.
In reality God would not ask for this.
He has the power to reverse anything man can do.
Many consider life to be a burden so it may be good to send someone to Heaven asap.

In conclusion, if God ask you to do anything then you should obey.

Regards
DL

[Cathar1950]

The story of Abraham has nothing to do with killing of ones offspring. I think that the moral of the story is that there should not be a limit to what we will do for God. Children of that day, especially sons were greatly valued. This is why this story is the epitome of what God wants from us. Total love and obedience.
The first commandment says it all.

A few thoughts.
In reality God would not ask for this.
He has the power to reverse anything man can do.
Many consider life to be a burden so it may be good to send someone to Heaven asap.

In conclusion, if God ask you to do anything then you should obey.

Regards
DL

Most likely Abraham and Sarah were Priests and Priestess. To El and Ashuriah.
If this was true then they would give their first child to the gods.
But it is a number of stories and myths merged after David time.
But you above conclusion is rather weak and troubling.
If in "reality" God would not ask this then why would you obey?
The idea that God can undo anything man can do and that it maybe good to sens someone to heaven is the sign of a deranged theology.

[Cmass]

Yes, this is indeed troubling. Outright scary actually.

I think that the moral of the story is that there should not be a limit to what we will do for God.

No limit? What if he asked you to to do something really, really gruesome such as torturing and then killing a child? Is there really no limit to your behavior? Is there really no action you would not do for God? Think carefully about this. Isn't there anything He would ask where you might, at some point simply say "God, I am not strong enough to do this. It makes me think you are insane. I apologize. Do to me as you wish, but I cannot act in this way."
Further, how would you know for sure it was indeed God directing you to kill? How do you know it wasn't just a paranoid delusion or the devil playing dress up?

Children of that day, especially sons were greatly valued.

What do you suppose changed this? If the writings and perspective of God was correct in Biblical times, then why weren't they right about valuing male children over female? Why do we only change certain aspects of the Bible as we see fit? Male children are clearly valued over female because it was "the way it was back then". Yep, and believing in a personal God and not knowing anything about evolution was also "the way it was back then" - but we don't change those perspectives.

This is why this story is the epitome of what God wants from us. Total love and obedience.

I love you so much I want you to kill for me. This goes back to my Tony Soprano scenario where he asks his new members to kill someone in order to prove their allegiance. Ghetto gangs do the same thing. Perhaps God would do this in order to test your allegiance?

In reality God would not ask for this.

I have been corrected by a Christian on this recently. God does not "ask" people to kill for him, He commands it - and has done so many times before. And apparently, according to this Christian, He "uses" many people to do the killing for him - not just Christians.
According to countless world leaders, he is commanding it right now. :2gun:

[Cathar1950]

In a Matriarchal vs Patriarchal Society the female would be valued.
Sometimes the son would be so valued tha it would be the only appropriate sacrifice. Kings were sometimes sacrificed. There are maany ancient stories and myths where children are sacrificed. Given there are at least three versions of convanants made with Abraham we might be looking at a ccultural development as well as religion.
Cmass does hint at a good point.
How is obeying God even morality?
I remember writing something on thi. I will have to look for it.


Me on ethics:


: objective moral values

Reason
Justice
Experience
Universal
Mercy
Beneficence
Sympathy

I like these. I got them years ago in an ethics book by William K. Frankena that was used in a philosophy of ethics class. The other thing I like was that it is the means that justifies the end. I don’t think this is limited to theists. Atheists too are capable of all these factors with out resorting to “God told me so” or “the bible told me so”.
We evolved and are related to the universe and we are social creatures. We need to be cared for or we die. Ethical behavior and ideas are part of our sympathetic nature and we learn from or parents and culture as well as our experiences. We also have millions of years evolving as social creatures starting with being mammals. A snake’s ethics would be much different. I think that if there is a God then God would have the same moral restrictions. God would be ethical because it is good not because God does it. If there is an objective morality then God is also bound to it for it to be universal.
It seems to me that even God has criteria that would be objective. (in some biblical ideas) His morality would not be his every whim but have to do with things, as they are related Or Relative morality. He sees what is right but does not make it so. This all leads me to believe that ethics an morality can be reasoned and understood by atheist. I do see a danger with a God centered ethics that could lead to doing evil and thinking it is good because God says so thru some authority or writing. A God centered ethics would be every bit as dangerous as any other inadequate moralty. I don’t think Christians have or can have an objective moral value. In fact obedience can hardly be called moral.
I am not into any divine command theory.

" Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” Genesis 18:25

“The Lord reigns.... He shall judge the peoples righteously.” Psalm 96:10

I remember it was Whitehead that the purpose of reason was to promote the art of living.

[Cmass]

Cmass does hint at a good point.
How is obeying God even morality?

Cathar, I would add:
I assume all Christians believe God to be the perfection of morality. What I wonder is, given so many often conflicting stories of just what morality consists of, how do they know what to do? If males were valued over females back then, why not value males over females now? If it was OK back then to kill other people when you heard the voice of God tell you to do so, why do we lock up such people now? I would bet the intervention of modern secularists have saved many, many lives.

[Cathar1950]

Cmass does hint at a good point.
How is obeying God even morality?

Cathar, I would add:
I assume all Christians believe God to be the perfection of morality. What I wonder is, given so many often conflicting stories of just what morality consists of, how do they know what to do? If males were valued over females back then, why not value males over females now? If it was OK back then to kill other people when you heard the voice of God tell you to do so, why do we lock up such people now? I would bet the intervention of modern secularists have saved many, many lives.

Even as I admire some of the social ethics of the prophets, they were also a class or group. Prophet against prophet. Some for the Temple some for the court and God is sending lying spirts to half of them.
If the prophets of YHWH or El had not got the jump on the others we might be singing praises to Baal and his son Marduk. Samuel was in some traditions is a priest in others a prophet. Saul is laying naked prophecising with the other prophets. Now some may argue Christian morality is better. Yet their writings send most of the world to hell while at least the Jews look forward to God's rule over the living. In the fiction of Acts two people die because they lied to Peter or somebody. This is the message, God might strike you down like he did the twin towers because of homosexuals and liberals or cause storms because the 10 commandments are not hanging in some court house.

[Greatest I Am]

Yes, this is indeed troubling. Outright scary actually.

I think that the moral of the story is that there should not be a limit to what we will do for God.

No limit? What if he asked you to to do something really, really gruesome such as torturing and then killing a child? Is there really no limit to your behavior? Is there really no action you would not do for God? Think carefully about this. Isn't there anything He would ask where you might, at some point simply say "God, I am not strong enough to do this. It makes me think you are insane. I apologize. Do to me as you wish, but I cannot act in this way."

GIA wrote
Anyone not willing to do the bidding of God is the insane one.

Further, how would you know for sure it was indeed God directing you to kill? How do you know it wasn't just a paranoid delusion or the devil playing dress up?

GIA wrote
Hello. The question said God not a delusion.


Children of that day, especially sons were greatly valued.

What do you suppose changed this? If the writings and perspective of God was correct in Biblical times, then why weren't they right about valuing male children over female?

GIA wrote
Perhaps they were for there day.
If we are going to continue asking our sons to die for oil, we may want to return to that practice.

Why do we only change certain aspects of the Bible as we see fit?

GIA wrote
The Bible and our understanding of it has never stopped evolving.

Male children are clearly valued over female because it was "the way it was back then". Yep, and believing in a personal God and not knowing anything about evolution was also "the way it was back then" - but we don't change those perspectives.

This is why this story is the epitome of what God wants from us. Total love and obedience.

I love you so much I want you to kill for me. This goes back to my Tony Soprano scenario where he asks his new members to kill someone in order to prove their allegiance. Ghetto gangs do the same thing. Perhaps God would do this in order to test your allegiance?

GIA wrote
God is not called Tony.

In reality God would not ask for this.

I have been corrected by a Christian on this recently. God does not "ask" people to kill for him, He commands it - and has done so many times before. And apparently, according to this Christian, He "uses" many people to do the killing for him - not just Christians.
According to countless world leaders, he is commanding it right now. :2gun:[/quote0]

GIA wrote
They do not speak for God and I doubt that God has instructed anyone to kill lately. It looks like we do it on our own. Even today we ask our sons to die for oil in Iran.

GIA wrote
Do not speak for God. Listen instead.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

Yes, this is indeed troubling. Outright scary actually.

I think that the moral of the story is that there should not be a limit to what we will do for God.

No limit? What if he asked you to to do something really, really gruesome such as torturing and then killing a child? Is there really no limit to your behavior? Is there really no action you would not do for God? Think carefully about this. Isn't there anything He would ask where you might, at some point simply say "God, I am not strong enough to do this. It makes me think you are insane. I apologize. Do to me as you wish, but I cannot act in this way."

GIA wrote
Anyone not willing to do the bidding of God is the insane one.

Further, how would you know for sure it was indeed God directing you to kill? How do you know it wasn't just a paranoid delusion or the devil playing dress up?

GIA wrote
Hello. The question said God not a delusion.


Children of that day, especially sons were greatly valued.

What do you suppose changed this? If the writings and perspective of God was correct in Biblical times, then why weren't they right about valuing male children over female?

GIA wrote
Perhaps they were for there day.
If we are going to continue asking our sons to die for oil, we may want to return to that practice.

Why do we only change certain aspects of the Bible as we see fit?

GIA wrote
The Bible and our understanding of it has never stopped evolving.

Male children are clearly valued over female because it was "the way it was back then". Yep, and believing in a personal God and not knowing anything about evolution was also "the way it was back then" - but we don't change those perspectives.

This is why this story is the epitome of what God wants from us. Total love and obedience.

I love you so much I want you to kill for me. This goes back to my Tony Soprano scenario where he asks his new members to kill someone in order to prove their allegiance. Ghetto gangs do the same thing. Perhaps God would do this in order to test your allegiance?

GIA wrote
God is not called Tony.

In reality God would not ask for this.

I have been corrected by a Christian on this recently. God does not "ask" people to kill for him, He commands it - and has done so many times before. And apparently, according to this Christian, He "uses" many people to do the killing for him - not just Christians.
According to countless world leaders, he is commanding it right now. :2gun:[/quote0]

GIA wrote
They do not speak for God and I doubt that God has instructed anyone to kill lately. It looks like we do it on our own. Even today we ask our sons to die for oil in Iran.

GIA wrote
Do not speak for God. Listen instead.

Regards
DL

[Greatest I Am]

Cmass does hint at a good point.
How is obeying God even morality?

Cathar, I would add:
I assume all Christians believe God to be the perfection of morality. What I wonder is, given so many often conflicting stories of just what morality consists of, how do they know what to do? If males were valued over females back then, why not value males over females now? If it was OK back then to kill other people when you heard the voice of God tell you to do so, why do we lock up such people now? I would bet the intervention of modern secularists have saved many, many lives.

GIA wrote
Some in the developing world are still killing female babies.
murder might be a better word here.

If God is not to set moral value, then who will?

Regards
DL