A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

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Miles
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A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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I came across the following piece in Wikipedia some time ago, and recently remembered how priceless it was and thought I'd share.

"Central to Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs are their interpretations of the second coming of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom of God. Watch Tower Society publications have made, and continue to make, predictions about world events they believe were prophesied in the Bible.[1] Some of those early predictions were described as "established truth",[2] and beyond any doubt.[3] Witnesses are told to "be complete in accepting the visible organization's direction in every aspect" and that there is no need to question what God tells them through his Word and organization since love "believes all things".[4][5][6] If a member advocates views different from what appears in print, they face expulsion.[7][8][9]

Failed predictions that were either explicitly stated or strongly implied, particularly linked to dates in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, have led to the alteration or abandonment of some teachings. The Society's publications have at times suggested that members had previously "read into the Watch Tower statements that were never intended"[10] or that the beliefs of members were "based on wrong premises".[11] According to Professor Edmond Gruss, other failed predictions were ignored, and replaced with new predictions; for example, in the book, The Finished Mystery (1917), events were applied to the years 1918 to 1925 that earlier had been held to occur prior to 1914. When the new interpretations also did not transpire, the 1926 edition of the book changed the statements and removed the dates.[12]


Predictions (by date of publication) include:

1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven.[28]
1891: 1914 would be "the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men".[29]
1904: "World-wide anarchy" would follow the end of the Gentile Times in 1914.[30]
1916: World War I would terminate in Armageddon and the rapture of the "saints".[31]
1917: In 1918, Christendom would go down as a system to oblivion and be succeeded by revolutionary governments. God would "destroy the churches wholesale and the church members by the millions". Church members would "perish by the sword of war, revolution and anarchy". The dead would lie unburied. In 1920 all earthly governments would disappear, with worldwide anarchy prevailing.[32]
1920: Messiah's kingdom would be established in 1925 and bring worldwide peace. God would begin restoring the earth. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful patriarchs would be resurrected to perfect human life and be made princes and rulers, the visible representatives of the New Order on earth. Those who showed themselves obedient to God would never die.[33]
1922: The anti-typical "jubilee" that would mark God's intervention in earthly affairs would take place "probably the fall" of 1925.[34]
1925: God's restoration of Earth would begin "shortly after" October 1, 1925. Jerusalem would be made the world's capital. Resurrected "princes" such as Abel, Noah, Moses and John the Baptist would give instructions to their subjects around the world by radio, and airplanes would transport people to and from Jerusalem from all parts of the globe in just "a few hours".[35]
1938: Armageddon was too close for marriage or child bearing.[36]
1941: There were only "months" remaining until Armageddon.[37]
1942: Armageddon was "immediately before us".[38]
1961: Awake! magazine stated that Armageddon "will come in the twentieth century.... This generation will see its fulfillment."[39]
1966: It would be 6000 years since man's creation in the fall of 1975 and it would be "appropriate" for Christ's thousand-year reign to begin at that time.[40] Time was "running out, no question about that".[41] The "immediate future" was "certain to be filled with climactic events ... within a few years at most", the final parts of Bible prophecy relating to the "last days" would undergo fulfillment as Christ's reign began.
1967: The end-time period (beginning in 1914) was claimed to be so far advanced that the time remaining could "be compared, not just to the last day of a week, but rather, to the last part of that day".[42]
1968: No one could say "with certainty" that the battle of Armageddon would begin in 1975, but time was "running out rapidly" with "earthshaking events" soon to take place.[43] In March 1968 there was a "short period of time left", with "only about ninety months left before 6000 years of man's existence on earth is completed".[44]
1969: The existing world order would not last long enough for young people to grow old; the world system would end "in a few years". Young Witnesses were told not to bother pursuing tertiary education for this reason.[45][46]
1971: The "battle in the day of Jehovah" was described as beginning "[s]hortly, within our twentieth century".[47]
1974: There was just a "short time remaining before the wicked world's end" and Witnesses were commended for selling their homes and property to "finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service".[48]
1984: There were "many indications" that "the end" was closer than the end of the 20th century.[49]
1989: The Watchtower asserted that Christian missionary work begun in the first century would "be completed in our 20th century".[50] When the magazine was republished in bound volumes, the phrase "in our 20th century" was replaced with the less specific "in our day".


It should be noted that on average a new prediction was coming out about every 5 1/2 years, but since 1989, 34 years ago, nada. Can we assume the JW prediction business has since shut down?


QUESTIONS:
1. Should continuing blunders such as these have any bearing on the credibility of a religion? Any religion?
2. What do you think it says about the Jehovah's Witnesses religion?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #51

Post by Ross »

[Replying to 2 Timothy 3:16] (post 60)

How about May 20th 2023 then, when onewithinhim wrote:

" the WTS never has said that it is a prophet"

The problem is that you guys don't seem to know your own history. Only what you are currently fed by your writing department in America.

And you all went hammer and tongs about the definition of a prophet.

What the failed prophesies mean is that the organization, the remnant, the WTS, the governing body in its many configurations since 1874, were not holy spirit directed.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #52

Post by 2timothy316 »

Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:10 am [Replying to 2 Timothy 3:16] (post 60)

How about May 20th 2023 then, when onewithinhim wrote:

" the WTS never has said that it is a prophet"

The problem is that you guys don't seem to know your own history. Only what you are currently fed by your writing department in America.

And you all went hammer and tongs about the definition of a prophet.

What the failed prophesies mean is that the organization, the remnant, the WTS, the governing body in its many configurations since 1874, were not holy spirit directed.
I am aware of what was written before i was even born. I got over it. So now what?
Are you so perfect in everything you say that you feel like you have the right to point out over and over where someone went wrong? What are you hoping to accomplish? What is the point of a thread to point out mistakes and those people accept those mistakes but you all keep harping on it? So again, what is it you're hoping to accomplish?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #53

Post by Ross »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:48 am
Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:10 am [Replying to 2 Timothy 3:16] (post 60)

How about May 20th 2023 then, when onewithinhim wrote:

" the WTS never has said that it is a prophet"

The problem is that you guys don't seem to know your own history. Only what you are currently fed by your writing department in America.

And you all went hammer and tongs about the definition of a prophet.

What the failed prophesies mean is that the organization, the remnant, the WTS, the governing body in its many configurations since 1874, were not holy spirit directed.
I am aware of what was written before i was even born. I got over it. So now what?
Are you so perfect in everything you say that you feel like you have the right to point out over and over where someone went wrong? What are you hoping to accomplish? What is the point of a thread to point out mistakes and those people accept those mistakes but you all keep harping on it? So again, what is it you're hoping to accomplish?
Well I hadn't written anything on this forum for some months, but when I read an inaccurate statement such as the one under discussion that you all vigorously defended, I felt obliged to correct.
Did you know that the org had claimed to be a prophet for many years? If so, and this applies to the other JW posters on this thread, why not come clean, rather than attempting to hoodwink?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #54

Post by 2timothy316 »

Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:28 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:48 am
Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 11:10 am [Replying to 2 Timothy 3:16] (post 60)

How about May 20th 2023 then, when onewithinhim wrote:

" the WTS never has said that it is a prophet"

The problem is that you guys don't seem to know your own history. Only what you are currently fed by your writing department in America.

And you all went hammer and tongs about the definition of a prophet.

What the failed prophesies mean is that the organization, the remnant, the WTS, the governing body in its many configurations since 1874, were not holy spirit directed.
I am aware of what was written before i was even born. I got over it. So now what?
Are you so perfect in everything you say that you feel like you have the right to point out over and over where someone went wrong? What are you hoping to accomplish? What is the point of a thread to point out mistakes and those people accept those mistakes but you all keep harping on it? So again, what is it you're hoping to accomplish?
Well I hadn't written anything on this forum for some months, but when I read an inaccurate statement such as the one under discussion that you all vigorously defended, I felt obliged to correct.
Did you know that the org had claimed to be a prophet for many years? If so, and this applies to the other JW posters on this thread, why not come clean, rather than attempting to hoodwink?
Yep. I have heard it all and read it all. Even the weird stuff about the pyramids in Egypt and it was once thought that Jehovah was in a particular star cluster. Read my comments, I have not tried to hoodwink anyone. There is nothing that wouldn't surprise me that was said all those years ago. I can only say for certain two things about Jehovah's Witnesses. #1. You will be hard pressed to find another religion that is set on actually finding the truth about God and the Bible. #2 that it is full of imperfect people.

So now what else ya got?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #55

Post by Ross »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:47 pm
Yep. I have heard it all and read it all. Even the weird stuff about the pyramids in Egypt and it was once thought that Jehovah was in a particular star cluster. Read my comments, I have not tried to hoodwink anyone. There is nothing that wouldn't surprise me that was said all those years ago. I can only say for certain two things about Jehovah's Witnesses. #1. You will be hard pressed to find another religion that is set on actually finding the truth about God and the Bible. #2 that it is full of imperfect people.

So now what else ya got?
OK thanks for your comments. For clarification, just before we proceed; please correct me if I am wrong:

You knew that your organization, the Governing Body, the WTS, the remnant, your founder Charles Taze Russell had all claimed to be God's prophet, before I drew attention to this in this thread?

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #56

Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Sun May 21, 2023 8:27 pm The WTS is not a prophet. It looks at prophecies already given and attempts to decipher them.
AND
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Jun 04, 2023 9:44 pm I at no time agreed that the predictions or interpretations of bible passages made by Jehovahs Witnesses were inspired divine revelation. Thus, they were not prophecy.
Not to open old wounds, but the following is a bit of information I came across that was completely unrelated to my search.

"From 1982 to 1995, the inside cover of Awake! magazine included, in its mission statement, a reference to the "generation of 1914", alluding to "the Creator's promise ... of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." In 1985, Witnesses were reminded: "The 1914 generation is well into the evening of its existence, thus allowing only little time for this prophecy yet to be fulfilled."
source

And what was "this prophecy" the Awake! magazine was alluding to? It's the one Charles Taze Russell made in 1877. (From the OP):

....... "1877: Christ's kingdom would hold full sway over the earth in 1914; the Jews, as a people, would be restored to God's favor; the "saints" would be carried to heaven."

.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #57

Post by 2timothy316 »

Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:11 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:47 pm
Yep. I have heard it all and read it all. Even the weird stuff about the pyramids in Egypt and it was once thought that Jehovah was in a particular star cluster. Read my comments, I have not tried to hoodwink anyone. There is nothing that wouldn't surprise me that was said all those years ago. I can only say for certain two things about Jehovah's Witnesses. #1. You will be hard pressed to find another religion that is set on actually finding the truth about God and the Bible. #2 that it is full of imperfect people.

So now what else ya got?
OK thanks for your comments. For clarification, just before we proceed; please correct me if I am wrong:

You knew that your organization, the Governing Body, the WTS, the remnant, your founder Charles Taze Russell had all claimed to be God's prophet, before I drew attention to this in this thread?
The Governing Body, WTS, remnant, Charles Russell are all different things and one doesn't equal the other. That said, yes I did know that there were those that thought they were prophets at the turn of the century. As to that exact definition they felt the word prophet meant in their day is debatable, but it is the word they used back then. Today, JWs have a different understanding as to what is Spirit inspired and what is Spirit led. Our definition of prophet is not the same as wikipedia.

For the way we define prophet go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003562
For the way we define spirit led go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011921

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #58

Post by Ross »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:35 pm
Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:11 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:47 pm
Yep. I have heard it all and read it all. Even the weird stuff about the pyramids in Egypt and it was once thought that Jehovah was in a particular star cluster. Read my comments, I have not tried to hoodwink anyone. There is nothing that wouldn't surprise me that was said all those years ago. I can only say for certain two things about Jehovah's Witnesses. #1. You will be hard pressed to find another religion that is set on actually finding the truth about God and the Bible. #2 that it is full of imperfect people.

So now what else ya got?
OK thanks for your comments. For clarification, just before we proceed; please correct me if I am wrong:

You knew that your organization, the Governing Body, the WTS, the remnant, your founder Charles Taze Russell had all claimed to be God's prophet, before I drew attention to this in this thread?
The Governing Body, WTS, remnant, Charles Russell are all different things and one doesn't equal the other. That said, yes I did know that there were those that thought they were prophets at the turn of the century. As to that exact definition they felt the word prophet meant in their day is debatable, but it is the word they used back then. Today, JWs have a different understanding as to what is Spirit inspired and what is Spirit led. Our definition of prophet is not the same as wikipedia.

For the way we define prophet go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003562
For the way we define spirit led go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011921
Thank you.

I note you missed out the organization.

Yet you allowed the erroneous comment by onewithinhim to proceed to truth seekers when you knew his statement was incorrect?

And the defence of the comment by JW.ORG, who backed up onewithinhim, also was not a concern to you?

There was even a link from J.W.ORG on the topic of 'have Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed to be prophets?' perpetuating false information. I hope that this link will be removed.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #59

Post by 2timothy316 »

Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:35 pm
Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:11 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:47 pm
Yep. I have heard it all and read it all. Even the weird stuff about the pyramids in Egypt and it was once thought that Jehovah was in a particular star cluster. Read my comments, I have not tried to hoodwink anyone. There is nothing that wouldn't surprise me that was said all those years ago. I can only say for certain two things about Jehovah's Witnesses. #1. You will be hard pressed to find another religion that is set on actually finding the truth about God and the Bible. #2 that it is full of imperfect people.

So now what else ya got?
OK thanks for your comments. For clarification, just before we proceed; please correct me if I am wrong:

You knew that your organization, the Governing Body, the WTS, the remnant, your founder Charles Taze Russell had all claimed to be God's prophet, before I drew attention to this in this thread?
The Governing Body, WTS, remnant, Charles Russell are all different things and one doesn't equal the other. That said, yes I did know that there were those that thought they were prophets at the turn of the century. As to that exact definition they felt the word prophet meant in their day is debatable, but it is the word they used back then. Today, JWs have a different understanding as to what is Spirit inspired and what is Spirit led. Our definition of prophet is not the same as wikipedia.

For the way we define prophet go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003562
For the way we define spirit led go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011921
Thank you.

I note you missed out the organization.

Yet you allowed the erroneous comment by onewithinhim to proceed to truth seekers when you knew his statement was incorrect?

And the defence of the comment by JW.ORG, who backed up onewithinhim, also was not a concern to you?

There was even a link from J.W.ORG on the topic of 'have Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed to be prophets?' perpetuating false information. I hope that this link will be removed.
I know what OWH meant. No need to correct them.
I'm taking it you didn't take the time to read the links I posted. Not surprised. You also did not quote exactly what the link said.
Also, organization is not the same as the other things you posted either.

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Re: A Look At The Jehovah's Witnesses Religion

Post #60

Post by Ross »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:04 pm
Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:58 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:35 pm
Ross wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:11 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:47 pm
Yep. I have heard it all and read it all. Even the weird stuff about the pyramids in Egypt and it was once thought that Jehovah was in a particular star cluster. Read my comments, I have not tried to hoodwink anyone. There is nothing that wouldn't surprise me that was said all those years ago. I can only say for certain two things about Jehovah's Witnesses. #1. You will be hard pressed to find another religion that is set on actually finding the truth about God and the Bible. #2 that it is full of imperfect people.

So now what else ya got?
OK thanks for your comments. For clarification, just before we proceed; please correct me if I am wrong:

You knew that your organization, the Governing Body, the WTS, the remnant, your founder Charles Taze Russell had all claimed to be God's prophet, before I drew attention to this in this thread?
The Governing Body, WTS, remnant, Charles Russell are all different things and one doesn't equal the other. That said, yes I did know that there were those that thought they were prophets at the turn of the century. As to that exact definition they felt the word prophet meant in their day is debatable, but it is the word they used back then. Today, JWs have a different understanding as to what is Spirit inspired and what is Spirit led. Our definition of prophet is not the same as wikipedia.

For the way we define prophet go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003562
For the way we define spirit led go to https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011921
Thank you.

I note you missed out the organization.

Yet you allowed the erroneous comment by onewithinhim to proceed to truth seekers when you knew his statement was incorrect?

And the defence of the comment by JW.ORG, who backed up onewithinhim, also was not a concern to you?

There was even a link from J.W.ORG on the topic of 'have Jehovah's Witnesses ever claimed to be prophets?' perpetuating false information. I hope that this link will be removed.
I'm taking it you didn't take the time to read the links I posted. Not surprised. You also did not quote exactly what the link said.
Also, organization is not the same as the other things you posted either.
Sorry, but I normally never read links. They are suggestive propaganda rather than one to one communication and debate.

Also, I understand what all of the segmentations of your religions various characterizations mean. It all comes from the same source and is one accountability.

I note also that you completely evaded my questions.

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