Zygote

[Wootah]

Every cell in my 47 year old body is doing its best to keep me alive and to divide and split and produce me. This happened from cell 1 to cell 37.2 trillion. All of them, following their programming and making me ongoingly across time.

How is the zygote of a human not a human again?

[Wootah]

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #50]

Until you guys can prove consciousness then we can take it off the table as a red herring to the discussion.

The heap. I was accused of having my thread suffer from the heap problem, when does a clump of cells become a human or not. This is irrelevant to my phrasing of the topic. From cell 1 to cell 37.2 trillion it is me. But it is a problem for you guys. When you write:

Yes, I am saying that now I have a heap, but earlier there was no heap. No, that's not a fallacy, it's just how heaps work. As a heap gets smaller, at some point it would be ambiguous, maybe it's still a heap, maybe it's not. Keep removing grains, sooner or later it definitely isn't a heap. The fallacy is thinking there would always be a heap, even down to a single grain.

You are committing the fallacy that was raised because you are claiming you know what a heap is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox

That claiming to know what a heap is is also circular reasoning. Prove you know it.

OK, now how about the topic? Where is the rebuttal?

Every cell in my 47-year-old body is doing its best to keep me alive and to divide and split and produce me. This happened from cell 1 to cell 37.2 trillion. All of them, following their programming and making me ongoingly across time.

How is the zygote of a human not a human again?

Focus on the topic guys. I know it is unpleasant.

[JoeyKnothead]

Okay, so a zygote is a human.

What now?

"I oughta be able to tell a woman what medical procedures she can and can't have"?

[Wootah]

Okay, so a zygote is a human.

What now?

"I oughta be able to tell a woman what medical procedures she can and can't have"?

Now we can go to the next topic. I'll stay for the clean-up and any final issues that any zygote's might post.

[JoeyKnothead]

Okay, so a zygote is a human.

What now?

"I oughta be able to tell a woman what medical procedures she can and can't have"?

Now we can go to the next topic. I'll stay for the clean-up and any final issues that any zygote's might post.

So, where you at on that I said?

Should a woman be allowed to have her a zygotedectomy?

[Bust Nak]

Until you guys can prove consciousness then we can take it off the table as a red herring to the discussion.

Use a different phrase then, if consciousness as an objective thing is your sticking point. By not having the properties usually associated with being a human, acting or looking like a till assistant, someone in a coma or a drunkard, for example. That much you can verify objectively, without having to infer consciousness from external data.

The heap. I was accused of having my thread suffer from the heap problem, when does a clump of cells become a human or not. This is irrelevant to my phrasing of the topic. From cell 1 to cell 37.2 trillion it is me.

That's the fallacy right there, how are you not seeing the parallel between:

t = now, it is me.
t = now-1, it is still me.
So t = 0, it is me.

Or:

37.2 trillion cells is a human
A human with one less cell is still a human
So cell 1 is a human

With:

37.2 trillion grains of sand is a heap of sand.
A heap of sand minus one grain is still a heap.
So 1 grain is a heap.

But it is a problem for you guys. When you write...[cropped]

You are committing the fallacy that was raised because you are claiming you know what a heap is.

How is claiming to know what is and isn't a heap is a fallacy?! Look at the wiki article again, the second image shows a color gradient. Is it a fallacy to claim that the left most color is green and the right most is red?

That claiming to know what a heap is is also circular reasoning. Prove you know it.

I know because I double checked with Google, it said a large collection of grains of sand is a heap, so 1 grain is not a heap. Good enough for you?

OK, now how about the topic? Where is the rebuttal?

Mine was back in page 5. Here you are rejecting consciousness as an objective thing, yet you had no problem inferring declining consciousness by how people act as they get older, not very consistent rationale. You also had no response to my charge of the question begging fallacy. The ball is in your court.

Focus on the topic guys. I know it is unpleasant.

Not to me it isn't.

[Wootah]

So, where you at on that I said?

Should a woman be allowed to have her a zygotedectomy?

You know I really don't know why we care so much about killing humans, zygote or not. For me, I think it is all due to God giving us a moral conscience but apart from that seriously - what is the big deal?

I do think that killing our children is like killing ourselves - I don't think it works out in our favour. Play the long game, raise the kid, even the rape baby, is the better choice.

[Athetotheist]

So, where you at on that I said?

Should a woman be allowed to have her a zygotedectomy?

You know I really don't know why we care so much about killing humans, zygote or not. For me, I think it is all due to God giving us a moral conscience but apart from that seriously - what is the big deal?

I do think that killing our children is like killing ourselves - I don't think it works out in our favour. Play the long game, raise the kid, even the rape baby, is the better choice.

Not if you're the woman and die from complications in labor.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #57]

Anyway - now you get to escape the topic. Life is unsafe.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to Athetotheist in post #57]

Anyway - now you get to escape the topic. Life is unsafe.

Speaking of life being unsafe, you never answered Joey's cancer cells questions, did you?

[Wootah]

Speaking of life being unsafe, you never answered Joey's cancer cells questions, did you?

Edge cases don't matter really. It is clear that as we amass more cells we can live without some of them.