Can a timeless God exist?

[Cmass]

I am starting a thread based upon a comment I made in another:
Change and time go hand in hand.
Without time there is nothing. You cannot go from one event to another. That is why there is no God. (beyond the multitude of other reasons) If God is "timeless" then God is changeless. If God is changeless, then he cannot change anything.
Nothing to nothing from nothing.
Can a timeless God exist?

[Cathar1950]

But I see the self as a reflection of the past experienced now.

Reflected on what?

The Self or Now of course.
I kind of think it is an imagined reflection of now and a created continuity.
I have more questions then answers about what the self is or isn't.

[methylatedghosts]

I view the soul and spirit as interchangeable - the same thing, just different names.

I say the self is a trinity. Mind, body, spirit. Superconscious, conscious, subconscious. Father, son, holy ghost. Whatever you feel comfortable with.

Is any of this eternal? If so how do we know it is so? Can anything be eternal?

I don't see why not (One in each, I'd say is not, one partly is, and one is fully).

Not eternal: Body, conscious, son
partly so: mind, subconscious, holy ghost
fully: spirit, superconscious, and father.

Body; obviously not eternal, it only lasts about 60-80 years before it falls apart.
Conscious, fades when you die.
The son, again, the physical being - doesn't last forever.

Mind: (not talking about the physical brain, but more who you are) connected to the body, like a transfer station, putting memories from the body (physical being) through to the spirit, hard to really define. Subconscious: again, hard to define - but we know it's there - a communicator between conscious and super conscious? I personally am not sure.
Holy ghost: communication between father and son, exists as a "guide" maybe?
All three seem to be there to help out the physical existence

Spirit: The eternal part of the trinity. Part of god. The "higher self"
Superconscious: Most are unaware of it. But, is like a memory bank for previous lives. Is this involved in what people call "astral travel"?
Father: God. Eternal. Most people accept this. But find it hard to accept this for spirit or superconscious.

How do we know? Dunno. something being eternal is almost beyond what we can comprehend. How can something exist forever? The second and third of each trinity are not really physical things. And for something to experience time, it has to be moving, and non-physical things can't move. So, do these percieve time, but are not affected by it? Or do they see everything at once in one big "instant"?

I don't have all the answers, but I do think about it alot. I'd like to see these generate alot of discussion, and see if anyone can come to a solid conclusion.

[upallnite]

Would this work?

God's time line is reverse to ours. Where the creation of time would be his last act (not first). This would give him knowledge of our future (since it would be his past). I have no clue if time can only be traversed in one direction if that direction is maintained.

Any thought on this?

[Cathar1950]

I have been reading "The Book of J" by Harold Bloom.
He talks about J the author of Genesis in the 10th century BCE, which he believes, might have even been a woman. But God (J) fashions man like a mud pie and breaths into him which then makes him a living soul. There was no soul before that and it is the full breathing living being that makes up the soul of man. It isn’t part of him and J has a rather monist view of reality. I am sticking with the Now and the future is an abstraction and anticipation therefore God (J) is not out side of time. Now Plato’s type of God is different, as an abstraction it can be outside of time because it isn’t real. It lives on the other side of their dualism. On the other hand there is the defined God it is a concept that is describing the fundamental nature of reality. Christians have a view that takes a redacted J mythology (many redactions such as (P) Priestly and (E)as well as (R) the final redactors maybe Ezra and company were later or early) and forces it into a Greek dualism of the Platonic type to create a new myth. It is a child of Gnostics and the mystery religions combining J with Plato’s God, creating the transcendent Christ from myth and Paul’s visions.

Anyone hear of any good time travel movies lately?
I love time travel movies.

[methylatedghosts]

Would this work?

God's time line is reverse to ours. Where the creation of time would be his last act (not first). This would give him knowledge of our future (since it would be his past). I have no clue if time can only be traversed in one direction if that direction is maintained.

Any thought on this?

There's actually a good article in a recent "New Scientist" magazine called how the future can affect the past. It talks about light as particles and waves

If you detect light as a particcle, it is a particle. If you detect it as a wave, it is a wave.

If you put a laser through a crystal and divide the beam, both resulting beams are detected as the same thing. i.e. both wave or both particle.

If you go further and put one of these separated beams through a super coiled fibre optic cable (10km) it delays the time in which that beam arrives at the end of the cable. Now, if you detect the light exiting the cable as a wave, the other beam - the one that got there first - is also a wave and vice versa.

This suggests "time travel" of light as in there are things that travel the opposite direction to where it originated and so affects the light that already got there. It also talks about "anitmatter" being matter traveling in the opposite direction. Something like that, it's a very interesting article.

[bernee51]

I don't see why not (One in each, I'd say is not, one partly is, and one is fully).

Not eternal: Body, conscious, son
partly so: mind, subconscious, holy ghost
fully: spirit, superconscious, and father.

Care to explain 'partly eternal'? Sounds like saying someone is a little bit pregnant.

How can something exist forever?

It also means that is has never not existed.

I don't have all the answers, but I do think about it alot.

Thinking about it is fine. Meditating and feeling (imho) is better.

[upallnite]

methylatedghosts

I was not trying to suggesting time travel. I was thinking that perhaps time can be traversed in more than one direction. If you maintain the direction then I do not see how it could be time travel. God would simply follow a reverse time line to ours.

[methylatedghosts]

methylatedghosts

I was not trying to suggesting time travel. I was thinking that perhaps time can be traversed in more than one direction. If you maintain the direction then I do not see how it could be time travel. God would simply follow a reverse time line to ours.

As do these light particles/waves

[methylatedghosts]

I don't see why not (One in each, I'd say is not, one partly is, and one is fully).

Not eternal: Body, conscious, son
partly so: mind, subconscious, holy ghost
fully: spirit, superconscious, and father.

Care to explain 'partly eternal'? Sounds like saying someone is a little bit pregnant.

Well, it's difficult. It's like it shows up only during life, but is the same thing as during previous lives. Kind of. It's in my head, but can't get it out into words. Sorry

How can something exist forever?

It also means that is has never not existed.

I'd assume so. That's logical.

I don't have all the answers, but I do think about it alot.

Thinking about it is fine. Meditating and feeling (imho) is better.[/quote]

True. I really need to work on that.

[conleymon]

does the equation 2+2=4 care what time it is? but it is one of many "static laws" that influence temporal events.

time is relative. We either move through time, or we move through space. We do not do both effectively. If I were to run past you at the speed of light, you would think that my watch stopped.

Think of it this way-start With a line. Cut in half, and look at its cross section. What do you have? You have a point. Now take a square. Cut in half, look at its cross section. You have a line. now take a sphere. Cut in half. Its cross section is a circle, for a two dimensional object.

The pattern here is that every time you look at the cross section of an object with n dimensions, you get an object of the next lesser dimension.


here's the part that will blow your mind. Take a four dimensional object. slice it in half. Look at its cross section, you will have a three dimensional object. This is what my physics teacher told me in high school. And I didn't understand it until a friend explained it this way: pause a movie. you get frozen "three dimensional" objects.

it's kind of put some perspective to our idea of time. It suggests that we and everything in the world are four dimensional objects. With a beginning, a middle and an end, all pre written in the great book of existence. god must reside in the same place as this book.