What does the Koran orders the prophet to do and how to behave:
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.
16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .
6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.
4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."
11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°
17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.
21:107-109 (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour is near or far."
22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord. You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, `God best knows what you do."
24.54. Say: "Obey God, and obey the Messenger. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).
88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.
48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.
36:16 17 (Three Messengers to their people) Said, "Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.'
39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.
42:6 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ....
64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.
67:25 26 And they ask, "When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?" Say, "The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner."
10.99-100. If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then compel mankind, against their will, to believe! No soul can believe, except by the will of God, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand
28.55-56 And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "To us our deeds, and to you yours; peace be to you: we seek not the ignorant," It is true thou wilt not be able to guide whom thou lovest; but God guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive guidance.
109.1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith,! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship, To you be your Way, and to me mine.
74.11-17 Leave Me with whom I created alone!, To whom I granted resources in abundance, And sons to be by his side, To whom I made (life) smooth and comfortable, Yet is he greedy-that I should add (yet more);- By no means! For to Our Signs he has been refractory!, Soon will I visit him with a mount of calamities!
"So have We appointed for every Prophet an enemy - devils of men and Jinns; who inspire each other with seductive, deceptive speech which leads astray; but had thy Lord willed they would not have done so. So leave them with what they do devise. And let the hearts of those who believe not in the Hereafter listen to it; and let them be well pleased with it; and let them gain what they can gain!" 6:113-114
"And when you see those who meddle with Our revelations, withdraw from them until they meddle with another topic. And if the devil causes you to forget, sit not, after the remembrance, with the congregation of wrongdoers. 6:68
The Koran on freedom of religion and faith
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Mousetrap
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Re: Re:
Post #41[Replying to mms20102 in post #39]
On the other hand, I have X Muslim Arab speaking Christians in my circle of friends.
They say the Arabic in the Quran is the worst you can find.
Furthermore, the Quran is very confusing, repetitive, and has zero line of thought.
I listened to Christian Prince and Al Fahdi, and they mock the idea that the Quran somehow has superior Arabic.
Now, I do not understand Arabic, but I firsthandedly experienced the confusing mumbo jumble, befuddling incoherent stories it contains.
Not to mention the unscientific, and mythologies it calls "Revelations from God".
On the other hand, I have X Muslim Arab speaking Christians in my circle of friends.
They say the Arabic in the Quran is the worst you can find.
Furthermore, the Quran is very confusing, repetitive, and has zero line of thought.
I listened to Christian Prince and Al Fahdi, and they mock the idea that the Quran somehow has superior Arabic.
Now, I do not understand Arabic, but I firsthandedly experienced the confusing mumbo jumble, befuddling incoherent stories it contains.
Not to mention the unscientific, and mythologies it calls "Revelations from God".
Evolution, the Religion where one believes one's children to be more Human, and one's parents to be more Ape, than you.
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mms20102
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Re: The Koran on freedom of religion and faith
Post #42[Replying to Mousetrap in post #40]
[Replying to mms20102 in post #39]
Your arguments are based on selective and misinterpreted readings of Quranic verses and Islamic history. To address your misleading points clearly and systematically, I will break down your claims into sub-questions, followed by thorough responses to expose the errors in your approach.
1. Historical Misrepresentation of Early Islam
Claim: Muhammad initiated attacks against non-Muslims, and no one ever attacked him first.
Response: This is a gross mischaracterization of early Islamic history. Muhammad and his followers faced severe persecution in Mecca, which forced them to emigrate to Medina (the Hijra). The Muslims were repeatedly attacked by the Quraysh, the ruling tribe in Mecca, who sought to destroy the early Muslim community. The battles that followed, such as Badr, were defensive in nature. Even after the Muslims gained military strength, they sought peace with their enemies through treaties, such as the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, which was broken by the Quraysh, leading to further conflict.
The Quran explicitly states that fighting is only permissible in self-defense:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190): "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors."
This verse refutes your claim that Islam promotes unprovoked aggression.
2. Distorted Interpretation of Verses on War
Claim: Verse 8:12 instructs Muslims to decapitate and terrorize non-believers.
Response: The verse you cite (8:12) is taken out of its battlefield context during the Battle of Badr. This verse refers to a specific historical situation where Muslims were vastly outnumbered and were defending themselves against a larger enemy. It is not a general command to kill non-Muslims. The command to "strike their necks" is related to combat during that battle. It is not an instruction for indiscriminate killing.
Furthermore, the Quran emphasizes peace whenever possible:
Surah Al-Anfal (8:61): "And if they incline to peace, then incline to it also and rely upon Allah. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing."
Thus, your claim that Islam advocates unprovoked violence is demonstrably false.
3. Misunderstanding of Apostasy and Freedom of Religion
Claim: Islam mandates the death penalty for anyone who rejects Allah and Muhammad.
Response: Nowhere in the Quran is there an explicit mention of a worldly punishment, let alone the death penalty, for apostasy. Punishments related to apostasy in Islamic law are debated among scholars, and many contemporary scholars reject the death penalty for apostasy. The Quran repeatedly affirms the principle of freedom of religion:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There is no compulsion in religion."
Any punishment for rejecting faith is left to God in the afterlife. Earthly penalties for disbelief or apostasy are not prescribed in the Quran, thus invalidating your claim.
4. Misinterpretation of the Jizya and Relations with Non-Muslims
Claim: Non-Muslims are subjected to humiliation and poverty through the Jizya tax.
Response: The Jizya was a tax levied on non-Muslims living under Muslim rule, providing them protection and exemption from military service. It was not intended to humiliate, as you claim, but rather to ensure their safety and autonomy within an Islamic state. In return, Muslims were obligated to defend them. Historical evidence shows that many non-Muslim communities thrived under Muslim rule and often preferred this arrangement over oppressive regimes they had experienced before.
Islam teaches fairness and kindness toward non-Muslims:
Surah Al-Mumtahanah (60:8): "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes—from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly."
Your selective reading of verses ignores the larger context of justice and fairness.
5. Distortion of Verse 9:30 Regarding Jews and Christians
Claim: Verse 9:30 brands Jews and Christians as polytheists and calls for their extermination.
Response: The verse in question criticizes specific theological positions held by certain Jewish and Christian groups, such as the deification of Ezra by some Jews and the belief in the divinity of Jesus by Christians. However, the Quran’s critique of these beliefs does not call for the extermination of Jews or Christians. In fact, Jews and Christians (People of the Book) are afforded special status in Islam, and the Quran calls for peaceful coexistence with them:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:62): "Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans—those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness—will have their reward with their Lord."
Your attempt to suggest the Quran mandates extermination of Jews and Christians is both unfounded and inflammatory.
6. False Claim about Islam’s View of Jesus
Claim: The Quran condemns Christians for worshipping Jesus and calls for their death.
Response: While the Quran rejects the divinity of Jesus, it holds him in the highest regard as a revered prophet. Muslims are required to believe in Jesus as part of their faith. The Quran consistently emphasizes respect for the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), and there is no verse that calls for the death of Christians simply because they believe in Jesus:
Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:82): "And you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because among them are priests and monks, and because they are not arrogant."
The Quran recognizes Christians as among those closest to Muslims in faith, contrary to your claim.
Conclusion
Your arguments rely on misinterpretations of the Quran and an oversimplified, historically inaccurate view of Islam. You selectively cite verses out of context to mislead and promote hostility. Islamic teachings, when understood holistically, promote justice, peace, and mutual respect for all people, regardless of faith. Your distortions serve only to perpetuate misunderstanding and division.
I suggest a more honest and thorough study of the Quran, guided by reputable scholars, to avoid misleading others with these dangerous and unfounded interpretations.
[Replying to mms20102 in post #39]
Thanks for pointing out that you only transfer words that you didn't study or see evidence to just like any other ignorant person. The question here is why do I need to reply to you while chat gpt can reply easily and with structured method.On the other hand, I have X Muslim Arab speaking Christians in my circle of friends.
They say the Arabic in the Quran is the worst you can find.
Furthermore, the Quran is very confusing, repetitive, and has zero line of thought.
I listened to Christian Prince and Al Fahdi, and they mock the idea that the Quran somehow has superior Arabic.
Now, I do not understand Arabic, but I firsthandedly experienced the confusing mumbo jumble, befuddling incoherent stories it contains.
Not to mention the unscientific, and mythologies it calls "Revelations from God".
Your arguments are based on selective and misinterpreted readings of Quranic verses and Islamic history. To address your misleading points clearly and systematically, I will break down your claims into sub-questions, followed by thorough responses to expose the errors in your approach.
1. Historical Misrepresentation of Early Islam
Claim: Muhammad initiated attacks against non-Muslims, and no one ever attacked him first.
Response: This is a gross mischaracterization of early Islamic history. Muhammad and his followers faced severe persecution in Mecca, which forced them to emigrate to Medina (the Hijra). The Muslims were repeatedly attacked by the Quraysh, the ruling tribe in Mecca, who sought to destroy the early Muslim community. The battles that followed, such as Badr, were defensive in nature. Even after the Muslims gained military strength, they sought peace with their enemies through treaties, such as the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, which was broken by the Quraysh, leading to further conflict.
The Quran explicitly states that fighting is only permissible in self-defense:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:190): "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed, Allah does not like transgressors."
This verse refutes your claim that Islam promotes unprovoked aggression.
2. Distorted Interpretation of Verses on War
Claim: Verse 8:12 instructs Muslims to decapitate and terrorize non-believers.
Response: The verse you cite (8:12) is taken out of its battlefield context during the Battle of Badr. This verse refers to a specific historical situation where Muslims were vastly outnumbered and were defending themselves against a larger enemy. It is not a general command to kill non-Muslims. The command to "strike their necks" is related to combat during that battle. It is not an instruction for indiscriminate killing.
Furthermore, the Quran emphasizes peace whenever possible:
Surah Al-Anfal (8:61): "And if they incline to peace, then incline to it also and rely upon Allah. Indeed, He is the Hearing, the Knowing."
Thus, your claim that Islam advocates unprovoked violence is demonstrably false.
3. Misunderstanding of Apostasy and Freedom of Religion
Claim: Islam mandates the death penalty for anyone who rejects Allah and Muhammad.
Response: Nowhere in the Quran is there an explicit mention of a worldly punishment, let alone the death penalty, for apostasy. Punishments related to apostasy in Islamic law are debated among scholars, and many contemporary scholars reject the death penalty for apostasy. The Quran repeatedly affirms the principle of freedom of religion:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:256): "There is no compulsion in religion."
Any punishment for rejecting faith is left to God in the afterlife. Earthly penalties for disbelief or apostasy are not prescribed in the Quran, thus invalidating your claim.
4. Misinterpretation of the Jizya and Relations with Non-Muslims
Claim: Non-Muslims are subjected to humiliation and poverty through the Jizya tax.
Response: The Jizya was a tax levied on non-Muslims living under Muslim rule, providing them protection and exemption from military service. It was not intended to humiliate, as you claim, but rather to ensure their safety and autonomy within an Islamic state. In return, Muslims were obligated to defend them. Historical evidence shows that many non-Muslim communities thrived under Muslim rule and often preferred this arrangement over oppressive regimes they had experienced before.
Islam teaches fairness and kindness toward non-Muslims:
Surah Al-Mumtahanah (60:8): "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes—from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly."
Your selective reading of verses ignores the larger context of justice and fairness.
5. Distortion of Verse 9:30 Regarding Jews and Christians
Claim: Verse 9:30 brands Jews and Christians as polytheists and calls for their extermination.
Response: The verse in question criticizes specific theological positions held by certain Jewish and Christian groups, such as the deification of Ezra by some Jews and the belief in the divinity of Jesus by Christians. However, the Quran’s critique of these beliefs does not call for the extermination of Jews or Christians. In fact, Jews and Christians (People of the Book) are afforded special status in Islam, and the Quran calls for peaceful coexistence with them:
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:62): "Indeed, those who believed and those who were Jews or Christians or Sabeans—those [among them] who believed in Allah and the Last Day and did righteousness—will have their reward with their Lord."
Your attempt to suggest the Quran mandates extermination of Jews and Christians is both unfounded and inflammatory.
6. False Claim about Islam’s View of Jesus
Claim: The Quran condemns Christians for worshipping Jesus and calls for their death.
Response: While the Quran rejects the divinity of Jesus, it holds him in the highest regard as a revered prophet. Muslims are required to believe in Jesus as part of their faith. The Quran consistently emphasizes respect for the People of the Book (Jews and Christians), and there is no verse that calls for the death of Christians simply because they believe in Jesus:
Surah Al-Ma'idah (5:82): "And you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because among them are priests and monks, and because they are not arrogant."
The Quran recognizes Christians as among those closest to Muslims in faith, contrary to your claim.
Conclusion
Your arguments rely on misinterpretations of the Quran and an oversimplified, historically inaccurate view of Islam. You selectively cite verses out of context to mislead and promote hostility. Islamic teachings, when understood holistically, promote justice, peace, and mutual respect for all people, regardless of faith. Your distortions serve only to perpetuate misunderstanding and division.
I suggest a more honest and thorough study of the Quran, guided by reputable scholars, to avoid misleading others with these dangerous and unfounded interpretations.
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Mousetrap
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Re: The Koran on freedom of religion and faith
Post #43[Replying to mms20102 in post #42]
What you are trying to explain is that all the instructions in the Quran to kill the polytheists untll only Islam remains, were instructions given to Muhammad 1400 years ago, and does not apply to today.
Am I correct on the above as your stance?
What you are trying to explain is that all the instructions in the Quran to kill the polytheists untll only Islam remains, were instructions given to Muhammad 1400 years ago, and does not apply to today.
Am I correct on the above as your stance?
Evolution, the Religion where one believes one's children to be more Human, and one's parents to be more Ape, than you.
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mms20102
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Re: The Koran on freedom of religion and faith
Post #44[Replying to Mousetrap in post #43]
That's what you are trying to understand not what I'm trying to say. I like when you are speechless on how things backfired. Go bring more articles chat gpt and I are waiting to reply to that nonsense.
That's what you are trying to understand not what I'm trying to say. I like when you are speechless on how things backfired. Go bring more articles chat gpt and I are waiting to reply to that nonsense.
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otseng
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Re: The Koran on freedom of religion and faith
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