every tear

[Athetotheist]

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Imagine yourself in heaven after the end of this world, where the throngs of the saved have been gathered to sing praises to Jesus for eternity.....

.....but someone you loved very deeply and dearly in this life is not there. That someone was loving, kind, humble and generous, but was just never convinced of the Jesus story......

.....so now you're in heaven forever and your dear one is not, and sometimes you stand alone at the edge of heaven looking out into the abyss and remembering.

As long as you remember, can every tear be wiped from your eyes? How? Must an act of divine amnesia be worked upon you to remove the sorrow from your heart by removing the loved one from your mind? Are you to simply put your memory and your love away in the eternal rejoicing? If so, is the eternal bliss still genuine?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #22]

I think person who loves his neighbor as Jesus and God has recommended, believes Jesus

Do you think a person has to believe in Jesus in order to love his neighbor?

Maybe not. My point was, if person does so, he also shows that he believes what Jesus said. I don't think Bible is about believing Jesus or God is real, it is about believing or understanding what is good and right. If there are two people:
A) Person claims he believes God and Jesus are real, but he doesn't believe what they said and he doesn't do what they have said.
b) Person who says he doesn't believe God or Jesus are real, because he has not seen enough evidence for it, but he loves his neighbor as Jesus has told, because understands it is good and right.

I would say the person B is more righteous and more likely ends up in heaven than the person A.

I don't think Bible is about believing God is real, it is about righteousness. And those who are righteous, will according to the Bible have eternal life. This is why I think God doesn't provide more proof for His existence, it is not very useful to believe He is real, if one is not righteous.

But, of course it is good, in my opinion if person believes God is real, even demons do so.

You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
James 2:19

That alone is just not enough, because:

Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, but the ones who do the will of My Father in Heaven.
Matt. 7:21
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Matt. 25:46
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous be-fore God, but the doers of the law will be justified for when Gen-tiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their con-science testifying with them, and their thoughts among them-selves accusing or else excusing them in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my Gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16

And no, this doesn't mean eternal life is something that you could earn by doing right things. It is a gift for those who are righteous. And if person is righteous, it will come visible in his actions. Actions are only like fruits of a tree that tell what kind of person one is.

Even so, every good tree produces good fruit; but the corrupt tree produces evil fruit. A good tree can't produce evil fruit, nei-ther can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't grow good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. Therefore, by their fruits you will know them.
Matt. 7:17-20

[POI]

Since Heaven is complete bliss, this is logically impossible. You cannot mourn, at all, ever, if you are present in a place of complete bliss. Hence, is your memory wiped by this God, or are you transformed by this God, or other? Please pick one?

By the way, where do you get the idea of bliss?

You can use any suitable synonym. But the bottom line is there would be nothing other than perpetual happiness alone.

I don't think memory needs to be wiped by God. It is possible that people who end up Heaven already understand why things are good the way they are and that there is no need to mourn.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Then it makes no sense for the Bible to state God will wipe their tears.

[marke]

Christians in heaven will find God has not only forgiven them of all their sins but will remove all remaining remorse and sadness for having committed those sins.

Then just allow all into Heaven. If God is required to change you, then it makes little sense not to just allow all into Heaven.

Marke: God saves sinners His way, not some other way.

This response addresses nothing I said. If God forgives all sin, and God also has to change you, then it makes no sense not to accept all. And as the OP-er asked, is your lack of further sorrow really genuine if God has to "remove" your tears? The answer is NO!

Marke: I do not believe your argument is valid or reasonable.

'Nu-huh' is not an acceptable debate response tactic. You need to sight your reason(s) in which you believe my argument is not sound.

Marke: You suggest your argument that God is mistaken to save people His way instead of yours is irrefutable. You are right, I don't really have anything much to say in response to that.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #41]

I don't think Bible is about believing God is real, it is about righteousness.

If believing what Jesus said about loving your neighbor is more important than believing what he said about himself, then his sacrifice must not have been necessary.

[bjs1]

This leaves room to cry for those who did not find salvation, even though irredeemable. Those who mourn such ones will be comforted in the new order. (Their tears will be wiped away.)

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Theophile makes an interesting point. For there to be “no more death or mourning or crying or pain” there first had to be death, mourning, crying, and pain. For God to “wipe every tear from their eyes” then first people had to cry.

Revelation 21:4 suggests there will be no new suffering, but it does not say that the suffering caused by a fallen world ceased to exist. The Bible says that those who mourn will be comforted (Matthew 5:4). The Bible never says that people will not mourn.

If anything, this verse suggests that the redeemed will and should mourn those who are irredeemably lost. It is a sad and unavoidable reality that some will be lost and this leads to tears. Revelations 21:4 says that God will wipe those tears away, but the tears had to first be there for God to be able to wipe them away.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #45]

If anything, this verse suggests that the redeemed will and should mourn those who are irredeemably lost. It is a sad and unavoidable reality that some will be lost and this leads to tears. Revelations 21:4 says that God will wipe those tears away, but the tears had to first be there for God to be able to wipe them away.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying....."

[bjs1]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #45]

If anything, this verse suggests that the redeemed will and should mourn those who are irredeemably lost. It is a sad and unavoidable reality that some will be lost and this leads to tears. Revelations 21:4 says that God will wipe those tears away, but the tears had to first be there for God to be able to wipe them away.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying....."

Yes, and as I said in my last post for there to be no more death or mourning, first there has to be death and mourning. Revelation 21:4 promises no new causes of mourning. It does not say that there will not be mourning from this fallen world. The passage suggests that there will be mourning, for it is only after we mourn that God can bring that mourning to an end.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to bjs1 in post #47]

Yes, and as I said in my last post for there to be no more death or mourning, first there has to be death and mourning.

The death and mourning are in this world.

Revelation 21:4 promises no new causes of mourning.

It promises that there will be no more mourning. It says that mourning will end just as it says that death will end.

It does not say that there will not be mourning from this fallen world.

Yes, it does.

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

Four things are listed as part of the old order of things: death, mourning, crying and pain. Therefore, they are all supposed to have passed away.

The passage suggests that there will be mourning, for it is only after we mourn that God can bring that mourning to an end.

It states that the passing away of the old order of things is what brings mourning to an end.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #41]

I don't think Bible is about believing God is real, it is about righteousness.

If believing what Jesus said about loving your neighbor is more important than believing what he said about himself, then his sacrifice must not have been necessary.

Hmmm... ...maybe that depends on what is meant with his sacrifice. If you mean his death, forgiveness was possible before death of Jesus. Therefore death was not necessary for God to forgive. The reason why Jesus died is said in these:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9
Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
John 12:24

But, the sacrifice can be understood also to mean the way how he used his life for us, to declare the message, instead of living in selfish luxury. And i think that was important, because that way we also got the good news.

[1213]

"He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
(Rev. 21:4)

Then it makes no sense for the Bible to state God will wipe their tears.

I think that implies there could be tears in the beginning, but God comforts the people and then they don't have tears anymore. And I believe that happens for example by explaining how the situation is good and no reason to be sorry.