Is there a place for physical violence as part of childrearing?Proverbs 23:13-14 wrote:Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
You shall strike him with the rod
And rescue his soul from Sheol.
Violence in Childrearing
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McCulloch
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Violence in Childrearing
Post #1Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Goat
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Post #41
I think it depends on the child. My neice was never struck, yet is higher than average iq, never in trouble, doesn't drink/do drugs, is responsible etc etc etc.Ncik666 wrote:Here we go. I was spanked. Punished and etc. You know what ended up happening? I am one of the most studious students at my school. Higher than average IQ yada yada. I don't think it should be used every time, and Over use and when it reaches the point of abuse is wrong. But when it comes down to it sometimes there is no other way to control a child, actually for that matter adults. I believe in death penalty and all that but I don't want to make that the issue here, what I'm saying is sometime a detterent should be used and sometimes that detterent needs to be followed through on.
However, I think the biggest problem is parents not knowing how to discipline without spanking. It isn't either 'all or nothing'.. there are plenty of ways to disciple without getting physcial. IT is also true that there are more and more parents that both parents work, and are leaving the children's care to others (or nobody) for longer timeframe than I think is healthy.
Post #42
Never should be an "all or nothing" type thing like you said. Besides spanking and other discipline should be more of an embarrasment issue than an actual "if I do this I might get hurt" type thing. And it may well turn out that it depends on the child as well. So far in my experiance children who are underdisciplined have turned out worse than children who are, then again I don't know everyone and theres probably an even split.
Also I don't think leaving a child alone when they are somewhere around 10 years old is terribly destructive. Younger than that it becomes an issue but still. Think about it when my parents were growing up they were left in the car while their parents went shopping for up to a half hour. You can't even do that to a dog now! Our standards may be raising but perhaps unneccessarily so.
Also I don't think leaving a child alone when they are somewhere around 10 years old is terribly destructive. Younger than that it becomes an issue but still. Think about it when my parents were growing up they were left in the car while their parents went shopping for up to a half hour. You can't even do that to a dog now! Our standards may be raising but perhaps unneccessarily so.
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AClockWorkOrange
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Post #43
just as a personal little "story" though i dislike using these, i cannot recall my parents hitting me once.
i remember them being very very level with me.
they spoke to me in even tones, never condescending.
from a young age, they raised me to not really need alot of things to be happy, so as to curtail me being demanding in a store, or at least easily turned down.
i didnt watch television, my mother read to me and my father made me up stories. or we would as a family watch a movie.
when i was insulant, they spoke to me levely, always calmed me down, and were very re-assuring.
they also rarely kept me in any ignorance, explaining any issue in terms i could grasp.
they didnt have to hit me becuase they raised me not to be an ass, and possessed patience.
i also remember them taking alot of time to play with me and impress me, instilling a healthy amount of awe and friendship.
of course, maybe my own personality had an awful lot to do with how i treated them.
i remember them being very very level with me.
they spoke to me in even tones, never condescending.
from a young age, they raised me to not really need alot of things to be happy, so as to curtail me being demanding in a store, or at least easily turned down.
i didnt watch television, my mother read to me and my father made me up stories. or we would as a family watch a movie.
when i was insulant, they spoke to me levely, always calmed me down, and were very re-assuring.
they also rarely kept me in any ignorance, explaining any issue in terms i could grasp.
they didnt have to hit me becuase they raised me not to be an ass, and possessed patience.
i also remember them taking alot of time to play with me and impress me, instilling a healthy amount of awe and friendship.
of course, maybe my own personality had an awful lot to do with how i treated them.
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EdTheOvertgeek
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Post #44
Parents should explain to their children why they don't like their behaviour in a calm, rational manor. If they still disagree, fair enough; let the child keep his/her opinion and keep debating. Contemplate their contentions; don't block them out, assuming that you're right and they're wrong.
If you feel strongly about their behaviour, prevent it for the time being, but by no means attempt to coerce them into your way of thinking.
The worst thing a parent can do is throw a hissey fit when their child disagrees and assume that if they don't throw the cerial at the wall enough it won't be drummed into their head and they'll continue to disobey and are turning evil.
I know this, because my mother used to do just this. It's not that she was violent, but just coercive and immature.
Violence has this effect, being a form of coercance. It is likely to destroy all trust and friendship between the parent and child, so never do it.
If you feel strongly about their behaviour, prevent it for the time being, but by no means attempt to coerce them into your way of thinking.
The worst thing a parent can do is throw a hissey fit when their child disagrees and assume that if they don't throw the cerial at the wall enough it won't be drummed into their head and they'll continue to disobey and are turning evil.
I know this, because my mother used to do just this. It's not that she was violent, but just coercive and immature.
Violence has this effect, being a form of coercance. It is likely to destroy all trust and friendship between the parent and child, so never do it.
Post #45
All right and good on paper. Unfortunately as a child myself I can tell you that without some actual discipline in my life at a young age I would be terrible. I don't think it should be a "hissy fit" but a thought through action. But physical discipline is in some cases needed.
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EdTheOvertgeek
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Post #46
Goodness, they sound like very sensible parents (no irony nor sarcasm intended).AClockWorkOrange wrote:just as a personal little "story" though i dislike using these, i cannot recall my parents hitting me once.
i remember them being very very level with me...
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Greatest I Am
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Post #47
Child rearing is the intelligence of the child pitted against that of the parent.
Violence towards one or the other would mean that intelligence has failled.
Violence as a means of conditioning has proven to be of little value.
Like the carrot and stick mentality. The carrot draws more rabbits than the stick.
Parents need training as well and I would prefer to see a parent improving their intelligence than to see him or her giving up on his or her own intelligence and revert to more bestial action.
History has shown that many children mimic their parents when it comes to corporeal punishment. This is not only poor training for the child it is poor training for the parent.
Perhaps this issue is why we now have our older population being abused physically by those who are in charge of their care.
Do we reap what we sow?
Regards
DL
Violence towards one or the other would mean that intelligence has failled.
Violence as a means of conditioning has proven to be of little value.
Like the carrot and stick mentality. The carrot draws more rabbits than the stick.
Parents need training as well and I would prefer to see a parent improving their intelligence than to see him or her giving up on his or her own intelligence and revert to more bestial action.
History has shown that many children mimic their parents when it comes to corporeal punishment. This is not only poor training for the child it is poor training for the parent.
Perhaps this issue is why we now have our older population being abused physically by those who are in charge of their care.
Do we reap what we sow?
Regards
DL
Post #48
As I've said the vast majority of the children I know that are raised in the so called "perfect understanding" environment, end up (excuse my language) self-entitled pricks. If there is a reason given to the child and the child is able to understand and comprehend the punishment then physical discipline can be considered. I've said before it shouldn't be the only way to deal with children and it shouldn't be the first thing reached for when a problem arises. If the child should know better than to do something that has been warned about before then it might be time to consider using physical discipline. (What I'm talking bout here isn't punishment, coporal or otherwise, it's discipline. Given for a reason with full thought given to what the parent is doing and how it could effect the child.
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Greatest I Am
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Post #49
We have no way of knowing what the effect will be on the child.Ncik666 wrote:As I've said the vast majority of the children I know that are raised in the so called "perfect understanding" environment, end up (excuse my language) self-entitled pricks. If there is a reason given to the child and the child is able to understand and comprehend the punishment then physical discipline can be considered. I've said before it shouldn't be the only way to deal with children and it shouldn't be the first thing reached for when a problem arises. If the child should know better than to do something that has been warned about before then it might be time to consider using physical discipline. (What I'm talking bout here isn't punishment, coporal or otherwise, it's discipline. Given for a reason with full thought given to what the parent is doing and how it could effect the child.
Like wife beaters, they may be learning from example as to how to behave. If they in tern use corporal punishment then you have taught to use muscle instead of brains to solve problems. Congratulations.
Regards
DL
Post #50
good point on not knowing the effect. We have to consider every child's individual persona before we base the parent's actions as acceptable.Greatest I Am wrote:We have no way of knowing what the effect will be on the child.Ncik666 wrote:As I've said the vast majority of the children I know that are raised in the so called "perfect understanding" environment, end up (excuse my language) self-entitled pricks. If there is a reason given to the child and the child is able to understand and comprehend the punishment then physical discipline can be considered. I've said before it shouldn't be the only way to deal with children and it shouldn't be the first thing reached for when a problem arises. If the child should know better than to do something that has been warned about before then it might be time to consider using physical discipline. (What I'm talking bout here isn't punishment, coporal or otherwise, it's discipline. Given for a reason with full thought given to what the parent is doing and how it could effect the child.
Like wife beaters, they may be learning from example as to how to behave. If they in tern use corporal punishment then you have taught to use muscle instead of brains to solve problems. Congratulations.
Regards
DL
