William wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 2:58 pm
Peace and Love Tam.
If I am reading you correctly, we agree that the Serpent in the Garden Story, was not an actual Snake re its appearance.
Its appearance can be deduced by the little that is told of it. It could walk and talk, which we know snakes cannot do.
The story tells it that Father YHVH took away those abilities the Serpent had, transforming it into what we and our dictionaries call "snakes" and the reason is clear why folk think the description of its transformed state, best fits with that of a snake.
Further to that, the Hebrew and Greek words appear to be fairly similar and point to the prefix "Reptile/Reptilian" as in - what
Family of specie the Serpent belonged in.
The Dragon also belongs in the Reptilian Family, but fire-breathing ones come from
Supernaturalism.
Now if we are to consider the story a work of fiction, then sure - why not consider the Serpent looked like a Dragon.
But if we consider the story a work of fact, then we have to eliminate supernaturalism and focus on fitting said story in what we know about the nature of nature.
There are no fossil records of any fire breathing dragons, although there are many records of giant Reptilians which once roamed the Earth, which adequately fit the description of being "Dragons", if not the type imagined from the Halls of Supernaturalism - then certainly - close cousins.
There are also actual Dragons which exist on the planet right now. They are what I would call "The Dragons of The Reptilian Family." and one in particular does snap at the heals of humans and if it catches a human it can do significant damage which results in the Dragon eating the human.
There are no known Dragons which talk, so the Garden Serpent may have been of the Dragon aspect of the Reptilian Family, but had the added aspect of being intelligent like a Human. able to use the complexity of language like a Human and - like a Human - was likely top of the order in relation the The Reptilian Family.
Therefore we can ascertain that the Serpent probably walked upright on two legs and used the other two appendages as arms and hands, like the Human.
We can come to such conclusions by observing the nature of Nature.
Whoever wrote Revelation certainly went on a trip. but we don't really know if what he experienced were real things or imagined things so cannot say for sure that the story isn't a work of fiction from our perspective, even that it may have been an actual real experience from the writer's perspective. Certainly we should be able to agree that the language used is very symbolic.
Yet the connection between the Garden Serpent and The Fire-Dragon of Revelation, distorts itself with a supernatural overlay of images of creatures which do not exist on this planet. Where they did exist, was in the Greco-Roman mythology from which Christianity emerged.
It is noted that a Dragon appears in Hebrew mythology, as far as my internet search goes...but we would be hard-pressed to accept that this creature was the same one as the Serpent. Of the Family, perhaps...but specifically a sea-dwelling Dragon.
a search result wrote:In the Hebrew Bible Leviathan, a serpentine sea creature. Yahweh created Leviathan to play in the sea (Psalms 104:26) and defeated the monster as a demonstration of his power (Psalms 74:14; Isa 27:1).
a search result wrote:Leviathan's fire-breathing ability, his impenetrable scales, and his overall indomitability in Job 41
Psalms 104:26 “There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.”
Psalms 74:14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.
Job 41:19...Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.
Clearly the nature of all those writings are mythological, presenting Father YHVH in a supernatural manner, dealing to supernatural critters while implying said creatures exist on the Earth.
The authors are clearly infatuated with the supernatural YHVH that they created in their imaginations, and expanded upon in their telling the story of it.
Therefore, it is easy enough for the seeker of Truth, to understand that the Greco-Roman mythology from which Christianity emerged, was easily superimposed upon the earlier Hebrew Mythology.
Back to the OP question, it is easy enough to understand that if the human animal form can talk using complex language systems to do so, there is no reason for us to think it would not have been possible that a creature from the Reptilian Family could also talk.
But it is highly unlikely that the Serpent was a Dragon/leviathan in appearance, and there is also no mention of the leviathan having the power of speech.
Thus, even that the connection is made by the Greco-Roman Christian mythology of Revelation, that the two are - of form - one and the same, they are not.
To summarize.
• The appearance of the serpent in the Garden of Eden story is not that of an actual snake but can be deduced from the limited information given.
• The serpent's abilities to walk and talk suggest a form different from that of a snake.
• The Hebrew and Greek words used for the serpent imply a connection to the reptilian family.
• While there are no fossil records of fire-breathing dragons, there are records of giant reptilian creatures that fit the description of dragons as close relatives.
• Actual dragons exist on the planet today, but they do not possess the ability to talk.
• The story of the serpent should be considered within a naturalistic framework rather than relying on supernatural interpretations.
• The connection between the serpent and the fire-dragon of Revelation is distorted by a supernatural overlay of creatures that do not exist on Earth.
• Hebrew mythology mentions Leviathan, a serpentine sea creature, but it is distinct from the serpent in the Garden of Eden story and does not possess the power of speech.
• Greco-Roman mythology influenced early Christianity and may have superimposed supernatural elements onto earlier Hebrew mythology.
• The appearance and characteristics of the serpent are not that of a dragon/leviathan, and there is no mention of the leviathan having the power of speech.
Peace in The Truth.
