Is the Earth really ruled by Satan?

[William]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #2636]

YHVH informs me that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth and always has been.

It would appear that if Satan works for YHVH as a means of sorting out those who understand YHVH is the most high over all the Earth from those who believe otherwise, then this does not change the fact that YHVH is the most high over all the Earth.

Satan is not working FOR Jehovah. He is working against Him. He challenged Jehovah that he could prove that mankind could live without Him and was given the opportunity by Jehovah. Jehovah is the Most High but has allowed Satan to take over rulership of the world for a set amount of time. Why else do you think the world is in such a mess? You think Jehovah rules this way? Satan is fast losing his challenge.

Q: Is this belief a logical and productive way in which to understand our world and our place in it?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #38]

The devil cannot be killed because he is a spirit.

What do you know about spirits that you can claim this as true?

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

Man was separated from the tree of life so that he could not eat of it and live forever like God and the other angels present in the garden of Eden.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #38]

The devil cannot be killed because he is a spirit.

What do you know about spirits that you can claim this as true?

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

Man was separated from the tree of life so that he could not eat of it and live forever like YHVH and the other angels present in the garden of Eden.

Are you saying that YHVH and Angels eat that fruit in order to live forever?

We know that it was not the forbidden fruit which caused Adam to die, so why should we think that the fruit of the tree of life would cause folk to live forever?

As well as that, IF Satan was the ruler of the earth, THEN what was YHVH doing in Satan's realm?

[Diogenes]

[Replying to William in post #10]

The idea of an entity like Satan is just as silly as the belief in gods. In fact Satan is just another fake god.

[William]

[Replying to William in post #10]

The idea of an entity like Satan is just as silly as the belief in gods. In fact Satan is just another fake god.

What is a 'fake god'?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #38]

The devil cannot be killed because he is a spirit.

What do you know about spirits that you can claim this as true?

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. (Genesis 3:22-23)

Man was separated from the tree of life so that he could not eat of it and live forever like YHVH and the other angels present in the garden of Eden.

Are you saying that YHVH and Angels eat that fruit in order to live forever?

No.

We know that it was not the forbidden fruit which caused Adam to die, so why should we think that the fruit of the tree of life would cause folk to live forever?

Sin caused Adam to die. The wages of sin is death, and sin is disobeying the commandments of God. God commanded them to not eat of the tree of knowledge.

God placed everlasting life and everlasting death before Adam and Eve. They could freely choose either choice.

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

They had two choices, choose one, and what God said would happen occurred.

Very likely, God will be correct about the results of them eating from the Tree of Life also.

As well as that, IF Satan was the ruler of the earth, THEN what was YHVH doing in Satan's realm?

He returned to re-create the formless, void, dark earth which resulted from the rebellion against God of Satan and some angels under his cobtrol.

[William]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #45]

Very likely, YHVH will be correct about the results of them eating from the Tree of Life also.

YHVH was correct that Adam would die on the day Adam ate the fruit. YHVH did not claim that it was the fruit that would do the killing/make death happen.

Eating the fruit of the tree of life would not have given Adam everlasting life, any more than eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil would have given Adam knowledge of good and evil.

The trees had no mystical powers. They were symbolic props which served a purpose.

Knowing good and evil is obviously not the problem either.

YHVH placed everlasting life and everlasting death before Adam and Eve. They could freely choose either choice.

YHVH designed the human body to experience the pain of childbirth and eventually to die. The death YHVH spoke about was not a physical death.

Adam surely did die as far as YHVH was concerned, in that day in that Garden. That Adams body survived the experience - apparently for nigh on 900 years, didn't make YHVH a liar.

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

[Diogenes]

[Replying to William in post #10]

The idea of an entity like Satan is just as silly as the belief in gods. In fact Satan is just another fake god.

What is a 'fake god'?

Good catch! Yes, my error; it's redundant. All gods are fake, just like all ghosts, goblins, fairies and unicorns. 'Fake is not the best term. They are characters in stories, inventions to explain phenomena we can't explain. This is why the Norse god Thor is dead. We know the cause of thunder now. Zeus died when we came to understand the cause of lightning.* The Hebrew god died when we understood the truth of evolution. This is why Christians work so hard to try to disprove the age of the Earth and the fact of evolution.


____________________
*'Lightning is an electric current. To make this electric current, first you need a cloud.

When the ground is hot, it heats the air above it. This warm air rises. As the air rises, water vapour cools and forms a cloud. When air continues to rise, the cloud gets bigger and bigger. In the tops of the clouds, temperature is below freezing and the water vapour turns into ice.

Now, the cloud becomes a thundercloud. Lots of small bits of ice bump into each other as they move around. All these collisions cause a build up of electrical charge.

Eventually, the whole cloud fills up with electrical charges. Lighter, positively charged particles form at the top of the cloud. Heavier, negatively charged particles sink to the bottom of the cloud.

When the positive and negative charges grow large enough, a giant spark - lightning - occurs between the two charges within the cloud. This is like a static electricity sparks you see, but much bigger.'
http://www.planet-science.com/categorie ... tning.aspx

[onewithhim]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #38]

The Devil can be killed. Jehovah created spirit beings and he can take them out. Satan and his demons are said to have their end in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10), which is symbolic for complete destruction. It is just as symbolic as "death and the Grave were hurled into the lake of fire." (Verse 14) You can see there that the lake of fire is symbolic of annihilation or the absolute obliteration of something, as death and the Grave cannot literally be thrown into the fire. They are merely completely gone forever. And what better "restraint" than to be dead? (That is the meaning of "tormented" in verse 10.)

[William]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #47]

All gods are fake

I have no way of verifying this is a correct statement. Do you?

[Diogenes]

[Replying to Diogenes in post #47]

All gods are fake

I have no way of verifying this is a correct statement. Do you?

This objection comes up frequently and I have addressed it many times, sometimes when I am explaining why I do not apply the word 'atheist' to myself.

NO one knows ANY thing absolutely. I think the Hebrew god described in the Bible is hopelessly impossible. I have trouble giving it more probability of existing than .0000000000000000001%. I feel silly ranking it that high. I rank its probability somewhere around the likelihood that fairies exist. I don't know why it should be given its own category. But rather than call myself agnostic as to gods and fairies, ghosts and goblins, Griffons and Centaurs, I say I don't believe in them. It seems silly (and cowardly) and stupid to say, 'Gee, I don't know... maybe fairies do exist... maybe the Earth is flat, but I don't think so.'

The closest I can come is to be open to a belief in God (not gods), an unknowable force (for want of a better term) and only hope that it is somehow personal. I might give that notion a 1 or 2 % chance of being.

Let me put it this way, 'Can you verify the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster (MHPBP) is fake? No. But so what? It remains an absurd belief nonetheless.