Are atheists nobler than christians?

[ShieldAxe]

If an atheist and a christian perform the same exact good deed, is not the atheist more noble in his actions? The christian has a heavenly reward as motivation. The atheist doesn't. The christian's deed is cheapened by the selfish motivation. The atheist's deed is more selfless. (All other conditions being equal).

[ShieldAxe]

Why is it absurd? Denying God is a horrible thing to do. And, for what? Why do most atheists reject God? My experience is because they are a rebellious lot that feed on their own egos. I'm often astonished how atheists are all about themselves.

I think just the opposite is true. Atheists in general have less of an ego. Consider the christian view. God created humans and they are his special creation. He created them in his image. And the world and everything in it is just for them, his chosen ones. Sounds pretty egotistical to me.

The atheist has no such view. We're not chosen. We're just all here and we should coexist in a way that is most beneficial to all (OK that part's not necessarily an atheist view). You are probably equating rebelliousness with 'rejecting' god. If so, i'm a rebel, but not for it's own sake. I'm a rebel because logic and rationality have made me one.

[mishmash]

If an atheist and a christian perform the same exact good deed, is not the atheist more noble in his actions? The christian has a heavenly reward as motivation. The atheist doesn't. The christian's deed is cheapened by the selfish motivation. The atheist's deed is more selfless. (All other conditions being equal).

The question is more complex than that. Perhaps atheists are more likely to think things through to the point that they are assured of a reward in this life. Christians, it would seem, are more likely to do it without knowing why. So I will put forth a simpler question that is not so loaded:

Is it more noble to do something with a hope of reward, or to simply do what you are commanded to do without thinking about the reward?

[ShieldAxe]

The question is more complex than that. Perhaps atheists are more likely to think things through to the point that they are assured of a reward in this life. Christians, it would seem, are more likely to do it without knowing why.

Probably because of the promise of the heavenly reward.

I did say all other things being equal to simplify the question. You are introducing inequities

So I will put forth a simpler question that is not so loaded:

Is it more noble to do something with a hope of reward, or to simply do what you are commanded to do without thinking about the reward?

Commanded to?

[palmera]

Is it more noble to do something with a hope of reward, or to simply do what you are commanded to do without thinking about the reward?

Neither is particularly noble. The former is selfish, the latter is dutiful, but not necessarily noble. Of course that isn't to say that there isn't something noble about doing one's duty; then again, mindless obedience isn't dutiful or noble, but rather a hollow mechanical action.

[ENIGMA]

Is it more noble to do something with a hope of reward, or to simply do what you are commanded to do without thinking about the reward?

Hmm... let me see...

Is it better to act to benefit your self-interest and potentially the interests of others or to simply follow orders, implicitly, if not effectively, abdicating moral responsibility?

The heinous actions of those claiming that they were "just following orders" during WWII, should be sufficient grounds to answer this question.

[guyo1]

My older brother was an agnostic-- he was a vegan who stopped and removed Turtles from th road.He was a VERY spirtiual person who valued ALL LIFE.He DIED 12.07.2004 in a car wreck----IF there is an afterlife he went there

[harvey1]

My older brother was an agnostic-- he was a vegan who stopped and removed Turtles from th road.He was a VERY spirtiual person who valued ALL LIFE.He DIED 12.07.2004 in a car wreck----IF there is an afterlife he went there

I'm very sorry for you and your family's deep, deep loss.

[QED]

Welcome to the DC&R forums guyo1. I'm sure that like Harvey and I, everyone else here would like to express our deep sorrow at this tragic loss. I hope you're able to afford some more time to join us in debating the big questions here.

[mishmash]

My older brother was an agnostic-- he was a vegan who stopped and removed Turtles from th road.He was a VERY spirtiual person who valued ALL LIFE.He DIED 12.07.2004 in a car wreck----IF there is an afterlife he went there

Man, I'm sorry about that. He sounds like a great guy, and I hope he has a great afterlife.

[Dion]

Well, I would much rather live next to a peaceful atheist than a vengeful theist, if that's what you mean. However, I think I'm more likely to live next to a peaceful atheist who's kids shave their heads and shoots bee bees at my windows. Like I said before, it's not the atheist that concerns me, it has always been their kids that concern me. So, I have to weigh those considerations in any evaluation of an atheists righteousness.

You seem to make some pretty wild assumptions about what sort of people atheists are. Has it ever occurred to you that atheists, as opposed to those people whose belief has simply lapsed, have probably thought long and hard before reaching the conclusions that they have. After all, who in their right mind would give up all hope eternity in paradise, etc., for themselves and their children, if they could see any way of reasonably avoiding it? Don't you think that such people are likely to be reasonable, thoughtful and considerate people who are also likely to instill similar values into their children?

As to the basic question of the thread; I'm not sure the motivation for doing a good deed matters greatly. My own logic for doing "the right thing" is simple. It helps to create and maintain a well ordered, compassionate, law abiding and (for these reasons, hopefully) a free and prosperous society in which I can enjoy the tiny span of my life. Were I to act entirely selfishly it would tend to destabilize that society which I hope will also protect and nurture my children (and their children, etc.). Of course this thought process does not go through my head every time I drop a few coins into a charity collecting box - any more than thoughts of eternal paradise/damnation prompts a Christian to do the same thing.

I don't see one motivation as necessarily being more noble than the other. Both seem to me to be ultimately the result of enlightened self interest at an intellectual level and a simple manifestation of an innate cooperative tendency as a social species at a more mundane level.