Muslims worship Muhammad…

Argue for and against religions and philosophies which are not Christian

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
User avatar
Pazuzu bin Hanbi
Sage
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:54 pm
Location: Kefitzat Haderech

Muslims worship Muhammad…

Post #1

Post by Pazuzu bin Hanbi »

OK, now no muslim would state that they worship Muhammad. They may even believe that they worship Allah alone, but their actions and creedal testimonies put Muhammad in a position that other religions reserve for God. Even Yeshua‘ in the Bible, and ancient Assyrians, as well as other pagan groups, exhorted that we as people imitate God to achieve the Good Life. Yeshua‘, for example, repeatedly states that people should copy God’s sense of mercy, justice, etc. Muslims, however, do their utmost to emulate Muhammad.

A couple of quotes. The first from the excellent contemporary scholarly book called Muslims: Their religious beliefs and practices by Andrew Rippin (don’t let the title fool you — he delves deep into the various elements that have combined to form Islam from its pre–history to the present day and includes current scholarship on Islam, challenging traditionally–accepted views on Islamic ‘history’):
While Muslims may think those who deny the existence of God or who utter blasphemies about Him are misguided, such discussions will not offend in the same manner in which discussions over Muhammad will. Those who insinuate evil of Muhammad or who cast aspersions on him are considered to be insulting Islam. This, upon consideration, is not surprising.


I know this myself, from having grown up in an Islamic community. It means muslims put Muhammad at the centre of Islam, not Allah! And the reactions Rippin notes above made me recall a passage I read in an autobiographical work by Ziauddin Sardar, a well–written and witty, not to mention interesting, book called Desperately Seeking Paradise. In this extract Sardar details his reaction to reading Rushdie’s The Satanic Verses:
Rushdie had plundered everything I hold dear and despoiled the inner sanctum of my identity. Every word was directed at me and I took everything personally. This is how, I remember thinking, it must feel to be raped… The life of the Prophet Muhammad is the source of Muslim identity. Muslims do not merely emulate his character and personality and follow his sayings and actions: it is the Prophet Muhammad who provides them with the ultimate reason for being a Muslim.

I do wonder if he or others would react like this if someone spoke out against Allah as opposed to Muhammad. Presented for your consideration: the reaction of muslims worldwide to the Danish cartoons (nobody lampooned Allah, only Muhammad), and the case of the Teddy Bear Named Muhammad (I recall some sources referring to this as ‘blasphemy’ — surely only a crime against God ranks as blasphemy?).
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه

TrueReligion
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:03 am

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #331

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
Ok, you are saying that Muslims worship Muhammad (pbuh) right? so bring evidence now. from whatever Islamic religious book you like, bring any evidence now, otherwise back off your claims
How after all this time can you still not understand what I am writing? Both of us know no such thing exists, we also know no such thing exists in regards to christianity. We know christians worship Jesus even though no such call to worship is to be found in the bible. You claim because there is no such call to worship from the koran that muslims do not worship Mohammed this argument is fallacious.
Ok, than I think we should close the session of this debate, as the OP iswrong and misleading to every here.
Wow, you still have no understanding. The OP has not been shown to be wrong, your reasoning is what has been shown to be wrong. If you can not understand how you are wrong that is your problem not mine I have gone to great lengths to attempt to help your understanding but you seem unwilling to do so.
Ok, if you like more to go on this post, lets start.

The post say that Muslims worship Muhammad right?
Now I say they dont, and Ive proved from Quran and all ways, still if you say that Muslims worship Muhammad, you have to bring proof.Otherwise there is nothing to debate here
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

User avatar
Wyvern
Under Probation
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:50 pm

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #332

Post by Wyvern »

The post say that Muslims worship Muhammad right?
Now I say they dont, and Ive proved from Quran and all ways, still if you say that Muslims worship Muhammad, you have to bring proof.Otherwise there is nothing to debate here
You have proven no such thing which I have explained to you a number of times. Why do you still fail to understand what is being said after all this time?

TrueReligion
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:03 am

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #333

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
The post say that Muslims worship Muhammad right?
Now I say they dont, and Ive proved from Quran and all ways, still if you say that Muslims worship Muhammad, you have to bring proof.Otherwise there is nothing to debate here
You have proven no such thing which I have explained to you a number of times. Why do you still fail to understand what is being said after all this time?
So you mean to say that all these times I have;nt proven that Muslims dont worship Muhammad?
Seems something less in your understanding Wyvern.

Ok, let me just show you again verse of Quran regarding Muhammad (pbuh)

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"

Now you prove anything from QURAN, if it say Muhammad (pbuh) is worshiped by muslims, if you can;t. means you loose again in 1 more post
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

User avatar
Wyvern
Under Probation
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:50 pm

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #334

Post by Wyvern »

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
The post say that Muslims worship Muhammad right?
Now I say they dont, and Ive proved from Quran and all ways, still if you say that Muslims worship Muhammad, you have to bring proof.Otherwise there is nothing to debate here
You have proven no such thing which I have explained to you a number of times. Why do you still fail to understand what is being said after all this time?
So you mean to say that all these times I have;nt proven that Muslims dont worship Muhammad?
Seems something less in your understanding Wyvern.

Ok, let me just show you again verse of Quran regarding Muhammad (pbuh)

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"

Now you prove anything from QURAN, if it say Muhammad (pbuh) is worshiped by muslims, if you can;t. means you loose again in 1 more post
Why oh why do you keep going back to this argument when it has already been shown to be invalid? Jesus is of similar stature to Mohammed in your religion and he is worshipped even though nothing in the bible states he should be worshipped. Explain how you can have two people that are effectively the same but have two entirely different results even though no holy book says for them to be worshipped. Explain how any time a non muslim makes any depiction or comment or sometimes even just uses the name Mohammed and the islamic world becomes violently angry. Seems like that kind of fervent devotion is worship in and of itself.

TrueReligion
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:03 am

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #335

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
The post say that Muslims worship Muhammad right?
Now I say they dont, and Ive proved from Quran and all ways, still if you say that Muslims worship Muhammad, you have to bring proof.Otherwise there is nothing to debate here
You have proven no such thing which I have explained to you a number of times. Why do you still fail to understand what is being said after all this time?
So you mean to say that all these times I have;nt proven that Muslims dont worship Muhammad?
Seems something less in your understanding Wyvern.

Ok, let me just show you again verse of Quran regarding Muhammad (pbuh)

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)"

Now you prove anything from QURAN, if it say Muhammad (pbuh) is worshiped by muslims, if you can;t. means you loose again in 1 more post
Why oh why do you keep going back to this argument when it has already been shown to be invalid? Jesus is of similar stature to Mohammed in your religion and he is worshipped even though nothing in the bible states he should be worshipped. Explain how you can have two people that are effectively the same but have two entirely different results even though no holy book says for them to be worshipped. Explain how any time a non muslim makes any depiction or comment or sometimes even just uses the name Mohammed and the islamic world becomes violently angry. Seems like that kind of fervent devotion is worship in and of itself.
Its you who are going to this argument, If you talk about Jesus, nothing in mention in Bible and Quran to worship him, so if christians are worshiping Jesus, you should ask them rather than arguing with me. Tel me did you ask any Christian, or make any post like this?
For cartoon, its a different issue, it does;nt count as worship, it shows love and respect. Seems you dont know the definition and meaning of worshipping. :-k
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

User avatar
Wyvern
Under Probation
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:50 pm

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #336

Post by Wyvern »

Its you who are going to this argument, If you talk about Jesus, nothing in mention in Bible and Quran to worship him, so if christians are worshiping Jesus, you should ask them rather than arguing with me. Tel me did you ask any Christian, or make any post like this?
For cartoon, its a different issue, it does;nt count as worship, it shows love and respect. Seems you dont know the definition and meaning of worshipping. :-k
According to your logic if it does not tell you in your holy book to worship him it does not happen, but in christianity this is true but he is worshipped so your logic fails.
You muslims have strange way of showing love and devotion. So you kill people to show your love and respect, sounds like you are making blood sacrifices to calm your angry god after you think he has been insulted.

TrueReligion
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:03 am

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #337

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
Its you who are going to this argument, If you talk about Jesus, nothing in mention in Bible and Quran to worship him, so if christians are worshiping Jesus, you should ask them rather than arguing with me. Tel me did you ask any Christian, or make any post like this?
For cartoon, its a different issue, it does;nt count as worship, it shows love and respect. Seems you dont know the definition and meaning of worshipping. :-k
According to your logic if it does not tell you in your holy book to worship him it does not happen, but in christianity this is true but he is worshipped so your logic fails.
You muslims have strange way of showing love and devotion. So you kill people to show your love and respect, sounds like you are making blood sacrifices to calm your angry god after you think he has been insulted.
Prove my logic fail, I said that in Bible its nothing mention that Jesus to be worshiped, but Christians worship , and they say also that they worship Jesus. So how can you fail my logic in this?
These remarks are not good in debate Wyvern, and I wont comment on them at all even knowing the reply.
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

User avatar
Wyvern
Under Probation
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:50 pm

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #338

Post by Wyvern »

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
Its you who are going to this argument, If you talk about Jesus, nothing in mention in Bible and Quran to worship him, so if christians are worshiping Jesus, you should ask them rather than arguing with me. Tel me did you ask any Christian, or make any post like this?
For cartoon, its a different issue, it does;nt count as worship, it shows love and respect. Seems you dont know the definition and meaning of worshipping. :-k
According to your logic if it does not tell you in your holy book to worship him it does not happen, but in christianity this is true but he is worshipped so your logic fails.
You muslims have strange way of showing love and devotion. So you kill people to show your love and respect, sounds like you are making blood sacrifices to calm your angry god after you think he has been insulted.
Prove my logic fail, I said that in Bible its nothing mention that Jesus to be worshiped, but Christians worship , and they say also that they worship Jesus. So how can you fail my logic in this?
These remarks are not good in debate Wyvern, and I wont comment on them at all even knowing the reply.
I have shown you already a number of times how your logic fails but you do not appear to understand, review the thread and you might get it but personally I can beat my head against a wall for only so long.

TrueReligion
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:03 am

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #339

Post by TrueReligion »

Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
Its you who are going to this argument, If you talk about Jesus, nothing in mention in Bible and Quran to worship him, so if christians are worshiping Jesus, you should ask them rather than arguing with me. Tel me did you ask any Christian, or make any post like this?
For cartoon, its a different issue, it does;nt count as worship, it shows love and respect. Seems you dont know the definition and meaning of worshipping. :-k
According to your logic if it does not tell you in your holy book to worship him it does not happen, but in christianity this is true but he is worshipped so your logic fails.
You muslims have strange way of showing love and devotion. So you kill people to show your love and respect, sounds like you are making blood sacrifices to calm your angry god after you think he has been insulted.
Prove my logic fail, I said that in Bible its nothing mention that Jesus to be worshiped, but Christians worship , and they say also that they worship Jesus. So how can you fail my logic in this?
These remarks are not good in debate Wyvern, and I wont comment on them at all even knowing the reply.
I have shown you already a number of times how your logic fails but you do not appear to understand, review the thread and you might get it but personally I can beat my head against a wall for only so long.
Its your own decision, dont make muslims responsible for that :) because for every death seems the world makes muslims responsible :lol:
"Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish." [Qur''''an 17:81)

User avatar
Wyvern
Under Probation
Posts: 3059
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 3:50 pm

Re: Muslims worship Muhammad�

Post #340

Post by Wyvern »

TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
TrueReligion wrote:
Wyvern wrote:
Its you who are going to this argument, If you talk about Jesus, nothing in mention in Bible and Quran to worship him, so if christians are worshiping Jesus, you should ask them rather than arguing with me. Tel me did you ask any Christian, or make any post like this?
For cartoon, its a different issue, it does;nt count as worship, it shows love and respect. Seems you dont know the definition and meaning of worshipping. :-k
According to your logic if it does not tell you in your holy book to worship him it does not happen, but in christianity this is true but he is worshipped so your logic fails.
You muslims have strange way of showing love and devotion. So you kill people to show your love and respect, sounds like you are making blood sacrifices to calm your angry god after you think he has been insulted.
Prove my logic fail, I said that in Bible its nothing mention that Jesus to be worshiped, but Christians worship , and they say also that they worship Jesus. So how can you fail my logic in this?
These remarks are not good in debate Wyvern, and I wont comment on them at all even knowing the reply.
I have shown you already a number of times how your logic fails but you do not appear to understand, review the thread and you might get it but personally I can beat my head against a wall for only so long.
Its your own decision, dont make muslims responsible for that :) because for every death seems the world makes muslims responsible :lol:
If you would understand english better and if you were debating in good faith this discussion would be over already.
No we only hold muslims responsible for the murders they commit. Is it our fault that radical muslims like traveling all over the world for the express purpose of killing others? Do you know of any other groups that board a plane to another country not to get somewhere but in order to blow it up? We just had another episode the other day in which a muslim tried to set off a bomb in a plane. Amazing how you complain about how muslims are held responsible for the murders they commit but then complain when american military personnel kill even a single muslim but when a muslim kills dozens of his fellow muslims not a word is said in protest.

Locked