Is Suicide a sin?

[McCulloch]

In another thread:

Christians don't commit suicide?

Nope. It is a sin to kill oneself.

Is suicide in all circumstances a sin? What is suicide? Is passive suicide also a sin?

We have heard of "suicide by Cop" to mean that someone causes their own death by putting a police officer in a situation where he must kill him. Is there a parallel of "suicide by martyrdom"? Did Jesus commit suicide by allowing himself to be killed when he, by his own admission, could have prevented it?

[otseng]

I do not believe that suicide is always wrong.

Actually, I do not believe it is always wrong either. I think that's why the Bible gives no clear commandment about it.

For me, the clear case of when it is not wrong is when it is in an attempt to save another's life.

[Confused]

If you plan to kill yourself in a heinous way, then it could be considered self murder?

I don't think the method of suicide needs to be "heinous" to be considered self murder, but rather the motivation is the main determination.

If the motivation is loss of hope, then I'm saying that suicide is wrong.

"malicious and premeditated killing of a person"

Is suicide malicious?!

If we define malicious as "deliberately harmful", yes, it is.

Let me also ask here, does anyone actually believe that suicide is not wrong?

I don't think that all cases of suicide are wrong. For example, opting to refuse dialysis for renal failure is suicide, but I don't think it is wrong. On the flip side, opting for suicide because your girlfriend broke up with you is not only wrong but stupid. I think the problem I am having here is that it would appear to me that if we took what the commandment says "Thou shall not murder" and we consider suicide a form of murder, then the bible makes it a finite issue. There is no room for special considerations. It is a straightforward commandment that doesn't have a "unless this or unless that" following it.

[weird7]

Is suicide in all circumstances a sin? What is suicide? Is passive suicide also a sin?

Good question. Consider the victims of the 9/11 terrorism attack. Some of the victims trapped on high floors jumped to their death rather than wait to be burned in the fire. Must you suffer the flames in order to not sin? Or, with the knowledge that your immediate death was inevitable, would God allow you to take the least painful route?

Did Jesus commit suicide by allowing himself to be killed when he, by his own admission, could have prevented it?

Jesus did allow himself to be killed. But I will agree with Osteng on this one. To sacrifice ones life in an attempt to save another (in Jesus' case - everybody) then it is not a sin. John 15:13 - "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."

[jasonm1848]

This is actually a really interesting topic. to start suicide by cop is a contradictory euphemistic term since that cop had free will and chose to kill you rather than die. so in that situation the cop was defending his life thus incurring no sin and the dead incurred whatever sin is involved in attempted murder and not following Jesus example when paying taxes to obey the laws unless they go against god. according to my research the bible's view on suicide is as follows:
Gen 9:5 "And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man."
other translations render the word for require as "ask back". All life belongs to God. Taking a human life is taking that life from God even if it is your own.
Besides the command at Exodus saying you must not murder we have 1 john 3:15 which states:
"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." obviously a serious sin if murder cost you eternal life.

the best example with i found in the bible with a little reasoning is the case of king saul. in 1 samuel 31:4 king saul killed himself. then the philistines pinned his body to the wall of Beth-Shan. When the people in Jabesh-gilead found out he was hangin there, they took him down, buried him, and fasted for 7 days according to funeral custom. however, and this is a BIG however, we read in 2 samuel 2:5 in king james
"And David sent messengers unto the men of Jabesh-gilead, and said unto them, Blessed be ye of the LORD, that ye have shewed this kindness unto your lord, even unto Saul, and have buried him."

1. yes i know the online king james i copied it from actually put "shewed".
2. It was big deal that saul got to be buried. notice how he says "even unto saul". several times in the bible funeral and burial rights were denied sinners, but when david found out that these people, knowing the circumstances of the death, still buried him, and that God allowed then to bury him, he praised God and blessed the people for their kindness.

Also as a side note Jesus can't be used for an example because his job and Gods will was for him to come and die as noted in matthew 16:21-23 (and I like the NIV version of these scriptures better so if you're stuck on the KJ look it up yourself.)

21) From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22) Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"
23) Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

though this translation is spotty (peter more closely said "be kind to yourself, these things will never happen") the point is kept intact regardless of version. basically God gave Jesus' life for us. Killing ourselves is taking our lives, something belonging and precious to God, from God. a sin, yes. a serious sin, yes. a mortal, grievous, unforgivable sin, depends, and in some cases probably not.
I can see people like the Japanese being forgiven for owning themselves because they didn't know any better. It's a little harder to picture the forgiveness of a priest putting a pistol to his head, though the judgment is far from mine to make. Just another thing for God to know and us to find out.

[weird7]

This is actually a really interesting topic. to start suicide by cop is a contradictory euphemistic term since that cop had free will and chose to kill you rather than die. so in that situation the cop was defending his life thus incurring no sin and the dead incurred whatever sin is involved in attempted murder and not following Jesus example when paying taxes to obey the laws unless they go against god.

I'm not sure how you consider "suicide by cop" a contradictory term. You can force a cop to shoot you by simply not lowering your weapon. Knowing this, a person could commit suicide (indirectly) by doing just this. The question isn't whether or not it is a sin for this person to attempt killing the cop (he could have no intention of killing the cop whatsoever), but whether it was a sin to commit suicide by forcing the cop to kill him.

[jasonm1848]

and as i said most likely no because the cop still had free will and chose to shoot him. also as a side note whenever a cop has to use his sidearm his actions are reviewed and if the guys gun was lowered when the cop shot him the cop would be disciplined, fired, or even prosecuted. free will prevents suicide by another person from being possible. even assisted suicide where that is legal is still the doctor murdering you even if you aren't resisting.

[weird7]

and as i said most likely no because the cop still had free will and chose to shoot him. also as a side note whenever a cop has to use his sidearm his actions are reviewed and if the guys gun was lowered when the cop shot him the cop would be disciplined, fired, or even prosecuted. free will prevents suicide by another person from being possible. even assisted suicide where that is legal is still the doctor murdering you even if you aren't resisting.

So are you saying that it is most likely not suicide because there is not 100% probability that the person in question would die (because of the cop's free will)? Or are you saying that our sins are also dependent upon the actions of others?

[jasonm1848]

nuuu im saying that people and murder weapons are different things though very closely related. if you put a gun to your head and squeeze you die. and thus you committed suicide. but if you piss off a cop, he has to decide whether to kill you or not. if by the process of self preservation you get shot that cop still made the choice to shoot you. you didn't squeeze the cop, the cop squeezed the gun. as long as the choice to take your life or not was not made by you its not suicide. thusly you cannot under any circumstance commit suicide by means of another person. you have to kick out the chair, plunge the needle, swallow the pill or squeeze the trigger yourself by your own free will or the one doing it for you committed murder indifferent of your concent.

[weird7]

So, if a person has the absolute intention of committing suicide, he can avoid sin altogether by forcing someone else to kill him?

[jasonm1848]

you are irritating me because you have not read my previous post and are requiring me to repeat myself. this will be my last post in this thread so please say nothing else. as i said just a few post up, 1 you can never force someone to murder. it is their choice to and the decision to protect their own life and kill you is a decision they have to make as an individual. 2. no you can not avoid all sin there is still the sin of doing everything that you did to get the cop to shoot you. we are commanded by jesus to pay back cesar's things to cesar and God's to God, in affect we are commanded to follow the law unless it contradicts God's law. thusly breaking the numerous, various laws to get shot is a sin.
also i agree 100% with the 2 gurus up there. the bible says that no man has greater love than the one willing to lay down his life for his fellow man. the term used denotes that a choice is made which could in some cases be suicide. but in that way the bible praises the action as greater selflessness not the selfishness of not wanting to live. Now please close this thread or let it die. I'm tired of getting replies asking the same thing over and over.