The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion

[Base12]

The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion...

Mark 13:14
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:"

That is what I believe.

[onewithhim]

Updated timeline for reference...

See post 29.

The Abomination of Desolation was the pagan army surrounding the Temple @70 AD. That was referring to that which is repugnant from the standpoint of Jehovah's true worship. Jesus' crucifixion was not repugnant but granted us salvation. The Roman army was repugnant, with their pagan symbols on their standards that they carried around. That reminds us of the Scripture at Matthew 24:15,16 where Jesus spoke of the disgusting thing that causes desolation spoken of through Daniel the Prophet, standing in a holy place, (the Temple). When he said this it is certain that he was speaking of something in the future, not his crucifixion or any other time period in the past. He warned his people to flee to the mountains when they saw this army surrounding Jerusalem, and they weren't to do this after his crucifixion. Their fleeing happened after the Roman army surrounded Jerusalem, @66-70 AD.

[Base12]

The Abomination of Desolation was the pagan army surrounding the Temple @70 AD.

If you could prove your point with Scripture, then you would have a case.

According to Daniel, the Abomination of Desolation happened at 1290 in the timeline...

Daniel 12:11
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Note that Jesus took away the daily sacrifice at the same time. Obviously, the daily sacrifice was no longer required or accepted after the Crucifixion.

The siege of Jerusalem happened at 1335 in the timeline, approximately 45 years later...

Daniel 12:12
"Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."

You have yet to demonstrate any kind of proper exegesis on the 1260 vs. 1290 vs. 1335 vs. 2300 days.

Scripture makes it clear that the rejection and killing of Jesus and the Prophets was what caused the desolation to ultimately occur...

Matthew 23:37-38
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."

Again...

Luke 13:34-35
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

How much clearer could Jesus have made it? Moreover, there are the Two Witnesses that still need to fit into all of this.

[placebofactor]

The 'Abomination of Desolation' was the Crucifixion...

Mark 13:14
"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judæa flee to the mountains:"

That is what I believe.

This is the worst guess I have ever read about concerning "the abomination of desolation" in my 45 years of Bible studies. It fits nothing concerning Daniel's prophecy that concerns end-time prophecy.

[Base12]

Moreover, there are the Two Witnesses that still need to fit into all of this.

Practically everyone believes that the Two Witnesses are still future. I used to believe this myself because that is all I ever heard. One day I decided to double check and guess what? It turns out the Two Witnesses came and went thousands of years ago!

I am certain there are those on this very forum who believe that they are one of the Two Witnesses here to prophecy in the Last Days. Every forum seems to have at least one of the Two Witnesses visiting them. Maybe they have already posted in this very thread. Just lol at their hubris.

Please stop with the narcissism. You are making real Christians look bad.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to Base12 in post #34]

This prophecy of Daniel extends until Verse 13, "the end of the days," not 70 A.D. or 6/1/25, but until the return of Christ, which is still future.

Read carefully Daniel 12:11-12, “From the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days (1290). Blessed is he that waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” The prophecy begins when the "Daily sacrifice was taken away."

The redemptive plan for the Jews was designed by the Lord. All temple sacrifices were to be instituted by divine appointment and were to prefigure the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The proper order of temple sacrifices was made clear to Moses. First, the sin offering on the day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) because this sacrifice occupied the most important place; Yom Kippur is the most holy day for the Jews. After this sacrifice had been offered by the Priest and received by the Lord, only then could the daily sacrifice and the meat offering or peace offering be made.

The Daily Sacrifice and Peace offerings could not be offered until the High Priest performed the sin offering on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur). Only a Priest of the tribe of Levi was permitted into the Holy of Holies on this one holy day as prescribed by the LORD.

Leviticus 16:2, “The LORD said to Moses, --- I will appear in the cloud (smoke of incense) upon the mercy seat.”

Before the Priest entered, his prescribed duty was to fill the Holy Place with the smoke of incense. The reason for the smoke of incense is that if he were to look upon the person of God, he would have been struck dead.
Habakkuk 1:13, ‘You (LORD) are of purer eyes than to behold evil, and cannot look at iniquity.’
And it was only upon the Mercy seat that the LORD presented himself in all his glory (the Shekinah glory) to the High Priest. If the LORD accepted the sacrifice, the Priest was cleansed of his sins. Once done, he would cleanse the Tabernacle and make an offering for the sins of the people.

First, he would go behind the curtain with the incense and fill the room with smoke from the incense. He would then sprinkle the blood offering on the Mercy Seat to atone for his sins and then for the people’s sins. Let me repeat: The blood must first be sprinkled on the mercy seat.

This offering protected the people and the Priests from the wrath of God because of their sins. The Day of Atonement took place once each year on the tenth day of October by our calendar and on the seventh month, the tenth day according to the Jewish calendar.
But only on this one specified holy Day of Atonement could the whole system of other sacrifices be cleansed and rebooted.
So, the Daily Sacrifice would be received by the LORD only if the sacrifice on the Day of Atonement was satisfactorily presented.

But for the past 2600 years, there existed a problem that the Jews were unable to overcome. Without the Ark of the Covenant Mercy Seat, and a Levitical priest, there could not be any acceptable Daily sacrifice because the Day of Atonement did not proceed as prescribed by the LORD. So the question remains, when did the Daily sacrifice cease?

2 Kings 24:12-13, and 2 Chronicles 36:5 gives us the answer. The year, 599 B.C. "Jehoiakim was twenty and five years old when he began to reign, and he reigned eleven years in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD his God. Verse 7, Nebuchadnezzar also carried off the vessels of the house of the LORD to Babylon, and put them in his temple at Babylon." That was the last time the Ark of the Covenant and the mercy seat were seen here on earth, 599 B.C.

2 Kings 24:13, "And he (Nebuchadnezzar) carried out thence all the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king's house, and cut in pieces all the vessels of gold which Solomon king of Israel had made in teh temple of the LORD, as the LORD had said."

[onewithhim]

Moreover, there are the Two Witnesses that still need to fit into all of this.

Practically everyone believes that the Two Witnesses are still future. I used to believe this myself because that is all I ever heard. One day I decided to double check and guess what? It turns out the Two Witnesses came and went thousands of years ago!

I am certain there are those on this very forum who believe that they are one of the Two Witnesses here to prophecy in the Last Days. Every forum seems to have at least one of the Two Witnesses visiting them. Maybe they have already posted in this very thread. Just lol at their hubris.

Please stop with the narcissism. You are making real Christians look bad.

The Two Witnesses are symbolic for what happened to Jesus' Witnesses in the last days (and has already happened). Jesus' disciples were thrown in jail back in the early years of the 1900s for a baseless reason and then came to life again when they were released. That's all antique history.

[placebofactor]

Moreover, there are the Two Witnesses that still need to fit into all of this.

Practically everyone believes that the Two Witnesses are still future. I used to believe this myself because that is all I ever heard. One day I decided to double check and guess what? It turns out the Two Witnesses came and went thousands of years ago!

I am certain there are those on this very forum who believe that they are one of the Two Witnesses here to prophecy in the Last Days. Every forum seems to have at least one of the Two Witnesses visiting them. Maybe they have already posted in this very thread. Just lol at their hubris.

Revelation wasn't written 2000 years ago.

Please stop with the narcissism. You are making real Christians look bad.

The Two Witnesses are symbolic for what happened to Jesus' Witnesses in the last days (and has already happened). Jesus' disciples were thrown in jail back in the early years of the 1900s for a baseless reason and then came to life again when they were released. That's all antique history.

If you're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, and World War 2, they survived because America was free for them to spread their propaganda throughout the war years. I never heard a witness say thank you to the Christian men and women who died for them so they could live. All they can do is criticize those who gave their life so they could survive.

Obviously, the Watchtower history books are as bad as their Bible. What the heck are you talking about? I hope it's not the holocaust when millions of Polish people, Jews, British, French, Christians, and millions of Russian civilians died at the hands of the madman Adolf Hitler?

Gee whiz, I had no idea symbolism (two Witnesses) could hold miraculous power, shut the heavens so it cannot rain, suffer death, be seen lying in the street dead for three days by the population of the earth, who then throw a party because symbolism is lying dead in the street. Then these two symbols are raised to life, grow feet, stand up, breathe, and are then taken into heaven by the Holy Spirit, whom they claim does not exist. Just another Watchtower bag of hot air.

[onewithhim]

Moreover, there are the Two Witnesses that still need to fit into all of this.

Practically everyone believes that the Two Witnesses are still future. I used to believe this myself because that is all I ever heard. One day I decided to double check and guess what? It turns out the Two Witnesses came and went thousands of years ago!

I am certain there are those on this very forum who believe that they are one of the Two Witnesses here to prophecy in the Last Days. Every forum seems to have at least one of the Two Witnesses visiting them. Maybe they have already posted in this very thread. Just lol at their hubris.

Revelation wasn't written 2000 years ago.

Please stop with the narcissism. You are making real Christians look bad.

The Two Witnesses are symbolic for what happened to Jesus' Witnesses in the last days (and has already happened). Jesus' disciples were thrown in jail back in the early years of the 1900s for a baseless reason and then came to life again when they were released. That's all antique history.

If you're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, and World War 2, they survived because America was free for them to spread their propaganda throughout the war years. I never heard a witness say thank you to the Christian men and women who died for them so they could live. All they can do is criticize those who gave their life so they could survive.

Obviously, the Watchtower history books are as bad as their Bible. What the heck are you talking about? I hope it's not the holocaust when millions of Polish people, Jews, British, French, Christians, and millions of Russian civilians died at the hands of the madman Adolf Hitler?

Gee whiz, I had no idea symbolism (two Witnesses) could hold miraculous power, shut the heavens so it cannot rain, suffer death, be seen lying in the street dead for three days by the population of the earth, who then throw a party because symbolism is lying dead in the street. Then these two symbols are raised to life, grow feet, stand up, breathe, and are then taken into heaven by the Holy Spirit, whom they claim does not exist. Just another Watchtower bag of hot air.

I'm not surprised that you think this is absurd. That account in Revelation is indeed symbolic of something that happened to Jesus' organization in the early years of the 20th century. It is not to be taken literally, like shutting the heavens so it cannot rain, using miraculous power, etc.

JWs do not claim that the Holy Spirit "does not exist." Just another bag of hot air on your part. And someone here said they had never heard a JW say "thank you" to a serviceman. Of course not because the JW can't be everywhere at once. I have thanked servicemen and even gave them money and a big hug when a veteran asked for help.

[placebofactor]

Moreover, there are the Two Witnesses that still need to fit into all of this.

Practically everyone believes that the Two Witnesses are still future. I used to believe this myself because that is all I ever heard. One day I decided to double check and guess what? It turns out the Two Witnesses came and went thousands of years ago!

I am certain there are those on this very forum who believe that they are one of the Two Witnesses here to prophecy in the Last Days. Every forum seems to have at least one of the Two Witnesses visiting them. Maybe they have already posted in this very thread. Just lol at their hubris.

Revelation wasn't written 2000 years ago.

Please stop with the narcissism. You are making real Christians look bad.

The Two Witnesses are symbolic for what happened to Jesus' Witnesses in the last days (and has already happened). Jesus' disciples were thrown in jail back in the early years of the 1900s for a baseless reason and then came to life again when they were released. That's all antique history.

If you're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, and World War 2, they survived because America was free for them to spread their propaganda throughout the war years. I never heard a witness say thank you to the Christian men and women who died for them so they could live. All they can do is criticize those who gave their life so they could survive.

Obviously, the Watchtower history books are as bad as their Bible. What the heck are you talking about? I hope it's not the holocaust when millions of Polish people, Jews, British, French, Christians, and millions of Russian civilians died at the hands of the madman Adolf Hitler?

Gee whiz, I had no idea symbolism (two Witnesses) could hold miraculous power, shut the heavens so it cannot rain, suffer death, be seen lying in the street dead for three days by the population of the earth, who then throw a party because symbolism is lying dead in the street. Then these two symbols are raised to life, grow feet, stand up, breathe, and are then taken into heaven by the Holy Spirit, whom they claim does not exist. Just another Watchtower bag of hot air.

I'm not surprised that you think this is absurd. That account in Revelation is indeed symbolic of something that happened to Jesus' organization in the early years of the 20th century. It is not to be taken literally, like shutting the heavens so it cannot rain, using miraculous power, etc.

JWs do not claim that the Holy Spirit "does not exist." Just another bag of hot air on your part. And someone here said they had never heard a JW say "thank you" to a serviceman. Of course not because the JW can't be everywhere at once. I have thanked servicemen and even gave them money and a big hug when a veteran asked for help.

No, it's hot air on your part. You deny the person of the Holy Spirit, and teach "HE" is an "it," the breath of the Father. And so, is it Jesus who sends the breath of his Father." Jesus said, John 16:14, "When the Comforter (Holy Spirit) is come, WHOM I WILL SEND UNTO YOU FROM THE FATHER." Now how can Jesus send the Father's breath? And don't claim it means the Father's word, Jesus is the Word.

And if it's the Father's breath, why would HE not speak of himself?" John 16:13. If it's the Father's breath, why would he not speak of himself? No, it's the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, that is sent to teach and comfort. He is sent by the Father to his Son who sent Him to us. See how simple that is when your eyes are opened.

[onewithhim]

Practically everyone believes that the Two Witnesses are still future. I used to believe this myself because that is all I ever heard. One day I decided to double check and guess what? It turns out the Two Witnesses came and went thousands of years ago!

I am certain there are those on this very forum who believe that they are one of the Two Witnesses here to prophecy in the Last Days. Every forum seems to have at least one of the Two Witnesses visiting them. Maybe they have already posted in this very thread. Just lol at their hubris.

Revelation wasn't written 2000 years ago.

Please stop with the narcissism. You are making real Christians look bad.

The Two Witnesses are symbolic for what happened to Jesus' Witnesses in the last days (and has already happened). Jesus' disciples were thrown in jail back in the early years of the 1900s for a baseless reason and then came to life again when they were released. That's all antique history.

If you're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses, and World War 2, they survived because America was free for them to spread their propaganda throughout the war years. I never heard a witness say thank you to the Christian men and women who died for them so they could live. All they can do is criticize those who gave their life so they could survive.

Obviously, the Watchtower history books are as bad as their Bible. What the heck are you talking about? I hope it's not the holocaust when millions of Polish people, Jews, British, French, Christians, and millions of Russian civilians died at the hands of the madman Adolf Hitler?

Gee whiz, I had no idea symbolism (two Witnesses) could hold miraculous power, shut the heavens so it cannot rain, suffer death, be seen lying in the street dead for three days by the population of the earth, who then throw a party because symbolism is lying dead in the street. Then these two symbols are raised to life, grow feet, stand up, breathe, and are then taken into heaven by the Holy Spirit, whom they claim does not exist. Just another Watchtower bag of hot air.

I'm not surprised that you think this is absurd. That account in Revelation is indeed symbolic of something that happened to Jesus' organization in the early years of the 20th century. It is not to be taken literally, like shutting the heavens so it cannot rain, using miraculous power, etc.

JWs do not claim that the Holy Spirit "does not exist." Just another bag of hot air on your part. And someone here said they had never heard a JW say "thank you" to a serviceman. Of course not because the JW can't be everywhere at once. I have thanked servicemen and even gave them money and a big hug when a veteran asked for help.

No, it's hot air on your part. You deny the person of the Holy Spirit, and teach "HE" is an "it," the breath of the Father. And so, is it Jesus who sends the breath of his Father." Jesus said, John 16:14, "When the Comforter (Holy Spirit) is come, WHOM I WILL SEND UNTO YOU FROM THE FATHER." Now how can Jesus send the Father's breath? And don't claim it means the Father's word, Jesus is the Word.

And if it's the Father's breath, why would HE not speak of himself?" John 16:13. If it's the Father's breath, why would he not speak of himself? No, it's the Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, that is sent to teach and comfort. He is sent by the Father to his Son who sent Him to us. See how simple that is when your eyes are opened.

The Father, Jehovah, gives many privileges to His Son, so it's not beyond rational thinking to think that Jesus could convey his Father's will ---the will of the Father that a person is understanding something or even having life---by being responsible for sending Jehovah's power to us. How irrational to think that the Holy Spirit as a Person would divide himself up onto 120 people in the upper room at Pentecost. No, that is beyond reason.