Is there a parallel?

[Athetotheist]

In the 19th century, a movement started among Native Americans which was believed by some to be a way to bring back their former way of life. One of its names was the Ghost Dance, and its participants hoped that performing it widely enough would bring about the disappearance of their white oppressors, the return of the buffalo herds and the restoration of peace and prosperity.

Fast forward to modern times, when "Dominion Theology" has become a significant movement. There are various approaches to it, but one facet is:

Dominion Theology defines the churchs hope to be the establishment of an earthly kingdom instead of the second coming of Christ. Under this view, Christ cannot come back until the church first establishes the millennial kingdom. This kingdom is not simply the rule of God in the hearts of people, but it is to be political, social, and visible. The great commission is redefined: instead of the primary goal being personal evangelism, the churchs mission is to gain control of the world, institution by institution and nation by nation.

https://www.apostolic.edu/is-dominion-t ... criptural/

Is Dominion Theology a fundamentalist Christian version of the Ghost Dance?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #25

I don't think he "had to write". I think he wanted to write, because he thought and that the end of all things is near. I think he was correct and I think we are every day closer to that.

How was he correct when it's been so many centuries since he wrote? ...

"Near" is not an exact word. Also, "end of all things" is not an exact word. Maybe he was speaking before the destruction of the temple and end of Israel.

[1213]

....the words are that some listening to him would not 'taste death' before the end came...

I think everything said about the end of the world, in the Bible, should be understood by these two:

But no one knows of that day and hour, not even the angels of heaven, but my Father only. "As the days of Noah were, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and they didn't know until the flood came, and took them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one will be left; two women grinding at the mill, one will be taken and one will be left. Watch therefore, for you don't know in what hour your Lord comes. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched, and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore also be ready, for in an hour that you don't expect, the Son of Man will come.
Matt. 24:36-
Therefore also be ready, for in an hour that you don't expect, the Son of Man will come.
Matt. 24:42-44

Disciples of Jesus should be ready for it at any moment. Perhaps that is why it is said it is near. However, not even Jesus knew the exact day, therefore it can't really be said he was wrong.

And I think "this generation" means the generation that sees "all these things", not necessary the generation that was on earth about 2000 years ago. Also, this Matt. 24:32-35 can be about the destruction of the temple, not about the end of the world.

"Now from the fig tree learn this parable. When its branch has now become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near. Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Most assuredly I tell you, this generation{The word for "generation" (genea) can also be translated as "race."} will not pass away, until all these things are accomplished. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.
Matt. 24:32-35

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to 1213 in post #32]That's just a get -out, evasion and excuse. Sure, God doesn't state what the date is for the rave, but the operative passage is that Jesus says that that generation (that is those living at the time) and those listening to him and the Sanhedrin indeed would be there to see it happen. Never mind exact dates; Jesus should have returned before the 2 nd century was out.

I know the apologists excuse it by saying that the 'generation' refers to all w humans, and 'taste death' is supposed to mean something other than dying and i can make up my own excuses - the Sanhedrin would be pulled out of their graves to see Jesus return on the clouds.

But I don't buy those excuses. Would Jesus really have misled everyone he talked to in that what he said really meant something else? I don't think so.

But the alternative is that the Bible is false and Jesus will not be turning up,, and I am aware that if the Bible appears to be wrong, it has to be reframed to make it work.

I can only say that you may be content with your apologetics, but I am not. It merely convinces me that that the Bible is wrong, Christianity is false and I am thankful that I do not have to bamboozle myself into believing claims that do not stack up.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #31

"Near" is not an exact word. Also, "end of all things" is not an exact word.

That's the problem. They should be exact terms. For prophecies to be worth anything, they have to be clear and specific.

[TRANSPONDER]

Yes; a thanks without comment would have done, but there have been talks on this; a prophecy has ti be specific and limited. The more vague and open - ended it is, the less it is worth. It is even worse when it is buried and hidden in the text like science in the Bible (and Quran).

The clue is when nobody saw the science or event until after humans found it io it happened, and then of course it can be claimed to be in there all the time, with some free interpretation.

But here it is the reverse; failed prophecy had to be fiddled to make it work, and isn't that the usual tale?

Tyre is the 'slavery' of prophecy I would say. It did not get destroyed never to be rebuit, but it was pretty much in continual running till today, and I need not rehearse the excuses, false claims and nonsense I have seen to try to make a failed prophecy work.

It is rather nice with Daniel, which always needed a bit of fiddling to make it fit the Christian narrative, but the Gabriel stone of Daniel was the matching of the oracular prophecies to Ptolemaic history. The events can be well matched to the history with the cutting off of the messiah relating High Priest Onias III and not Jesus., and we can even date it to the year as it is when the Prophecy goes wrong, and shortly after collapses in fantasy of the end times.

And the massacre of innocents is another Prophecy that is actually nothing to do with that supposed event which I will bet never happened, though it is given a lot of historical credit. But I am sure it never happened, and nor did either nativity, and it is long overdue that history has the guts to stand up and say it is a fairy tale, and no more.

So this leaves the 2nd coming in a dubious state. Dubious in that fiddling meanings to mean something other than what the Bible apparently says and dubious in that the longer the prophecy - apologists assure is it is going to happen very soon, the more we get annoyed with them, thinking they are playing us for suckers.

"It's a million dollars - can you afford to take that chance?" Absolutely, when I an 97% sure the million dollars doesn't exist and is a tall tale.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #31

"Near" is not an exact word. Also, "end of all things" is not an exact word.

That's the problem. They should be exact terms. For prophecies to be worth anything, they have to be clear and specific.

I don't think it is a problem. Bible tells even Jesus doesn't know the final day. The point is that people should be ready for it at any moment. And the point is also to tell what things will happen, so that people would be prepared.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to 1213 in post #31

"Near" is not an exact word. Also, "end of all things" is not an exact word.

That's the problem. They should be exact terms. For prophecies to be worth anything, they have to be clear and specific.

I don't think it is a problem. Bible tells even Jesus doesn't know the final day. The point is that people should be ready for it at any moment. And the point is also to tell what things will happen, so that people would be prepared.

A perfect scam. Keep people alarmed with tales of dire events to come, and only signing up to the cult is going to save them when the spaceship comes.

No, faithclaims - and ones that have failed every time, not to mention based on a book more full of holes than fishnet tights carries no weight, despite your own personal opinions.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #37

I don't think it is a problem. Bible tells even Jesus doesn't know the final day. The point is that people should be ready for it at any moment. And the point is also to tell what things will happen, so that people would be prepared.

The moment to be prepared for is linked to specific things happening, and when the specific things happened the moment didn't come.

[Tcg]

Bible tells even Jesus doesn't know the final day.

The Bible is right for once. If there was a single person the myth was built on, he is long dead now. Dead people don't know anything.


Tcg

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #37

I don't think it is a problem. Bible tells even Jesus doesn't know the final day. The point is that people should be ready for it at any moment. And the point is also to tell what things will happen, so that people would be prepared.

The moment to be prepared for is linked to specific things happening, and when the specific things happened the moment didn't come.

That was actually from 1213 though it was quoted in my post, but Ok. I have the impression that the specific things were not that specific. Tyre was conquered twice as i recall, Babylon sacked a couple of times, and Jews returned to Palestine all the time, though the refounding of Israel is specific, which is why Bible prophecy -mongers clack about it all the time. But apart from that 'Wars and Rumours of wars' type prophecies aren't enough and we know, don't m we, that there have been a constant steam of end world orophecies and nit one has panned out.

It is not so much slinging mud as a wall but having no idea of the time but shouting out the same time in hopes that it'll be right eventually.

The thing is, there is no clock.