The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

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Ross
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The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #1

Post by Ross »

The Jehovah's Witnesses have their own translation of the Bible, The New World translation, which has been used in their proselytising and study almost exclusively since it was produced in the 1950's.
The Christian Greek Scriptures (NT) were translated first in secrecy by a translation committee appointed by their then President Nathan Homer Knorr and Vice President and chief theologian Frederick William Franz, without the knowledge of their Governing Body around 1950. The NT completed work was presented one morning to the remainder of the organizational staff at Bethel Headquarters in New York.
The name 'Jehovah' was inserted into the Christian Greek Scriptures by the committee 237 times, even though there is not a single extant Greek manuscript in existence containing 'Jehovah' or the Hebrew YHWH. Is there good and just reason to put it there, or is this a case of inserting spurious text?

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #31

Post by Ross »

Eloi wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:40 pm The NT is a retelling of actual events. It is authoritative on doctrinal matters, and it is authoritative on the historical events it narrates. Manuscripts we got today are just copies of copies of what was originally recorded and originally written by the human writers.

In the NT we find Jesus reading Is. 61:1,2 from a Hebrew manuscript of Isaiah in a Jewish synagogue:

Luke 4:16 He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written:
18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.”
20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed on him. 21 Then he began to say to them: “Today this scripture that you just heard is fulfilled.”

Did Jesus mention the name of Jehovah when read this passage of Isaiah, or not?
Are you not aware that the Jews in Jesus day were Hellenistic, meaning Greek speaking, that the YHWH had not been pronounced for hundreds of years in public, that the Bible that was used was the Greek LXX, and that did not contain the YHWH?
So again according to the inspired word of God, it's another NO.

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #32

Post by Ross »

If the NT had contained words that Jehovah's Witnesses insist should be there (to support their doctrines) and such had been removed without any trace whatsoever, then this would render the entire NT as having no integrity.

Any intelligent and reasonable person would trust the manuscripts rather than a cult that interferes with them and adds words that are not present.

None of the writings of the early Church Fathers when quoting the NT reference your name 'Jehovah' or the more significant Hebrew YHWH.

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #33

Post by Eloi »

Ross wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:51 am
Eloi wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 4:17 pm
I didn't ask you what the manuscripts we got say, because I know that. Since we do not have the autograph of the original written documents ... I asked you:

What do you think? Did Jesus mention the name of Jehovah on his responses to Satan's temptations?
Not according to God's written Word Sir. So NO
Not because the manuscripts we got don't have the name, it means that the inspired writers didn't include it. Sufficient evidence exists to believe that later copyists removed God's name and substituted it with titles where it was in the original New Testament writings.

It is obvious that Jesus mentioned the name of Jehovah; he was not superstitious with the name of his Father, and he explicitely said that he used it with his disciples. Whoever say the opposite is just being denylist about the reality of Jesus and his ministry about his Father and God.

John 17:6 I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word.

Now: is there any reason why Jesus' disciples would not have written the name of God, as it was in the Greek LXX they got with the name, even if Jesus obviously used it freely and without fear of any Jewish stipulations about it, as all ancient servants of God did?

Is there any reason for the modern versionist of the Bible to delete the name of God more than 6 thousand times from the OT, when everybody knows it goes there? The same way, haters of the identity of the true God did the same in the past.

PS: The JWs are not the only ones who have reinstated God's name where it goes in the NT. Whoever says that is lying.

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #34

Post by Eloi »

Ross wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:57 am
Eloi wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 5:40 pm The NT is a retelling of actual events. It is authoritative on doctrinal matters, and it is authoritative on the historical events it narrates. Manuscripts we got today are just copies of copies of what was originally recorded and originally written by the human writers.

In the NT we find Jesus reading Is. 61:1,2 from a Hebrew manuscript of Isaiah in a Jewish synagogue:

Luke 4:16 He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written:
18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.”
20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed on him. 21 Then he began to say to them: “Today this scripture that you just heard is fulfilled.”

Did Jesus mention the name of Jehovah when read this passage of Isaiah, or not?
Are you not aware that the Jews in Jesus day were Hellenistic, meaning Greek speaking, that the YHWH had not been pronounced for hundreds of years in public, that the Bible that was used was the Greek LXX, and that did not contain the YHWH?
So again according to the inspired word of God, it's another NO.

Was Jesus scared of the Jews about reading the name of God in the roll in Hebrew he was reading at the synagogue?
How did he read it? Did he say Elohim or Adonay instead of his Father's name that was written there in Hebrew?
Didn't he know the pronunciation of his Father's name?

You can be very funny. :D

It is useless to try to reason with denialists.
Last edited by Eloi on Tue Feb 14, 2023 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ross
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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #35

Post by Ross »

Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:53 am
Sufficient evidence exists to believe that later copyists removed God's name and substituted it with titles where it was in the original New Testament writings.
Please show us this evidence

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #36

Post by Eloi »

Ross wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:31 am
Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:53 am
Sufficient evidence exists to believe that later copyists removed God's name and substituted it with titles where it was in the original New Testament writings.
Please show us this evidence
The first proof is that it was intentionally deleted by the Jews from the Greek LXX some time after the rise of Christianity.

Do you still think that Jesus did not read the name of God aloud when he was given the scroll of Isaiah in Hebrew in the Jewish synagogue as Luke tells us, or have you already reconsidered?

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #37

Post by Ross »

Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:53 am
Jesus was not superstitious with the name of his Father
John 17:6 I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world.
There is no name assigned to The Father in the NT. You only assume it is YHWH because you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.
The name referred to here is The Fathers reputation, honour, history, what he stands for and represents.
'Name' does not always mean Bob or Joe.
As Matthew 28: 19, 20 states

"Go therefore and make disciples of all peoples and nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit.

If you disagree with this then perhaps you can tell me what is the name of the Holy Spirit?"

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #38

Post by Ross »

Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:42 am
Ross wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:31 am
Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:53 am
Sufficient evidence exists to believe that later copyists removed God's name and substituted it with titles where it was in the original New Testament writings.
Please show us this evidence
The first proof is that it was intentionally deleted by the Jews from the Greek LXX some time after the rise of Christianity.
Your statement is in error and not at all in line with accepted history. The error is
Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:42 am some time after the rise of Christianity.
You continue to make wild and reckless assertions that are against all historical acceptance and evidence without supplying any proof or references. Is this how you have been taught in your Watchtower Bible Studies that you recommended I partake in?

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #39

Post by Ross »

Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:42 am The first proof is that it was intentionally deleted by the Jews from the Greek LXX some time after the rise of Christianity.
You then must believe that every copy of the LXX dates from the first century onward?

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Re: The name YHWH or Jehovah belongs in the New Testament

Post #40

Post by Eloi »

Ross wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:46 am
Eloi wrote: Tue Feb 14, 2023 10:53 am
Jesus was not superstitious with the name of his Father
John 17:6 I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world.
There is no name assigned to The Father in the NT. You only assume it is YHWH because you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.
(...)
Jesus said to the Jews:

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

And Paul said:

Rom. 3:29 Or is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of people of the nations? Yes, also of people of the nations.

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