Patriotism Activists and Non-American Christians

[questioner4]

For Patriotism Activists:

1. Do you believe that Americans have to be patriotic to the US? If so, why?

2. Do you feel that it's okay for an American to prefer another country over the US? If not, why?

3. Do you feel that it's okay for an American to prefer the culture (music, movies, etc.) of another country over the US's culture? If not, why?

For Non-American Christians:

1. Do you feel that Christianity in the US is too Americanised?

2. Do you support the war in Iraq?

3. How high are abortion and same-sex marriages on you priority, when it comes to politics?

[Dilettante]

juliod wrote:

Due to the strict political nature of the campaign, the enemy underwent a popular revolt against their leaders, and became much more closely aligned with Europe. Milosovic is in The Hague on trial for crimes against humanity by an international court. His lawyers, BTW, are not being assassinated.

Paradoxically, the Serbs were the ones who had always been pro-Western. The war was abundant in contradictions. As for Milosevic's trial, well, I don't think much of international courts. If there was an international government I could understand an international court. Otherwise it is a joke. Can you imagine your international court judging the American president? Whose army would enforce that?

The Persnickety Platypus wrote:

Okay, ONE good deed. Now need I list all the "good deeds" done entirely in self interest?

No wonder you can't find hardly any good deeds which were not done in self interest. States cannot afford to be altruistic. No nation on earth behaves like a charity.

bernee51 wrote:

Democracy at the point of a gun is somewhat of an oxymoron.

True, but unfortunately weapons are neccesary to enforce the rule of law. A pacifist state is even more of an oxymoron.

[bernee51]

bernee51 wrote:

Democracy at the point of a gun is somewhat of an oxymoron.

True, but unfortunately weapons are neccesary to enforce the rule of law. A pacifist state is even more of an oxymoron.

I was referring to the way democracy was 'introduced' to Iraq.

That said, I would warrant that the most successful and social conscious democracies (Scandanavia, Australia, New Zealand) spend far less on 'defence' than the less socially conscious ones and non-democratic states.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

No wonder you can't find hardly any good deeds which were not done in self interest. States cannot afford to be altruistic. No nation on earth behaves like a charity.

The United States cannot afford to be altruistic? The single wealthiest country on Earth, third richest on a per capita basis ($37,000, compared to East Timor's $500), controlled almost EXCLUSIVELY by the rich, with a budget spaning in the multi-billions (most of which is spent on oil crusades and election rigging), cannot afford to devote a portion of their wealth to charity efforts?

Bill Gates could single handedly support every starving person in Congo. For 1,000 years.

The combined wealth of our 269 billionaires (a number which should read "0") surpasses the annual budgets of Every Asian Country. Combined.

The average senator's campaign budget (Around five million), instead of being spent on something useful, goes to the noble privilidge of screwing over the American people. But hey, someone's got to do it (the 800,000,000 people starving worldwide sure arn't).

But no, we can't afford to use money in an unprofitable way. Dear China might surpass us as the most powerful country on Earth. We might lose our ability to manipulate honest countries to feed our incurably gluttonous resource appetite. God forbid.

So much for generous, caring, compassionate America. We pass up the chance to save the world every day.




Someone, anyone, give me one good reason to be patriotic. What about America should I love, or grant worthy of devotion?

[juliod]

The combined wealth of our 269 billionaires (a number which should read "0") surpasses the annual budgets of Every Asian Country. Combined.

Hee hee.

Our military budget is larger than the next 10 highest-spending nations. Combined.

Excluding other NATO countries our military budget is larger than the rest of the world. Combined.

Compared to our military budget, the combined budget of the "Axis of Evil" (Iraq (pre-invasion), Iran, and North Korea) is insignificant.

Someone, anyone, give me one good reason to be patriotic.

The 1969 Pontiac GTO.

Seriously, there are very many reason to be patriotic (in the real sense of the word). We have a beautiful land with massive natural resources, and a remarkably stable political system (recent events excluded). Our GDP per capita is the highest in the world, our technical and scientific achievements are unmatched. Our culture is not only the envy of the world, but it is also perfectly acceptable to be cynical and dismissive about Britney Spears and Hollywood.

Patriotism requires a process of continual improvement. There is no lack of areas where the US is quite backward. But that's a subject for another thread.

DanZ

[The Persnickety Platypus]

We have a beautiful land with massive natural resources

Not for long, at the rate it is dissapearing.

remarkably stable political system (recent events excluded).

Stable, but discriminating and manipulative.

Our GDP per capita is the highest in the world

Which should make us feel guilty.

Our culture is not only the envy of the world, but it is also perfectly acceptable to be cynical and dismissive about Britney Spears and Hollywood.

I despise every aspect of our violent sex driven culture.

our technical and scientific achievements are unmatched.

Up until the current administration came into power.

The 1969 Pontiac GTO.

Okay, you've got me there. Although, European manufacturers have a slightly more impressive repertoire, especially recently.....


No, but seriously, I am not really that cynical. There are plently of things to be proud of.

[juliod]

Not for long, at the rate it is dissapearing.

Well, we need to reverse that. And we can. I mean, even the DoD has a major environmental program.

Stable, but discriminating and manipulative.

As we are learning in Iraq, stability is more important than almost anything else. And we have all the tools necessary to reform the system. We just need to get the fascists out of office.

Which should make us feel guilty.

No, no. GDP is the value of the goods and services made in the US by we workers. Our employees are the most productive in the world. (Of course, I understand that this is mainly due to the financial sector which produces lots of GPD without much identifiable work.)

I despise every aspect of our violent sex driven culture.

Oh, come on. Violence is necessary for interesting stories. It's in everything from the Bible to Beowulf. Hollywood is no worse than classical opera in this regard. Or Geek theater.

And sex is good in all cases.

Up until the current administration came into power.

They'll be gone soon and the sun can come out again.

Although, European manufacturers have a slightly more impressive repertoire, especially recently

Piffle, double piffle, triple piffle. I can refute that in two words: Corvette Z06. It still makes me weep several months after I first read the specifications of the 2006 model. (Of course, it is often said among the Corvette owners that the vette is the only american car they would buy.)

DanZ

[Dilettante]

I was referring to the way democracy was 'introduced' to Iraq.

That said, I would warrant that the most successful and social conscious democracies (Scandanavia, Australia, New Zealand) spend far less on 'defence' than the less socially conscious ones and non-democratic states.

Yes, I agree the method is not really promising. On the other hand, democracy has sometimes been introduced in strange ways. In Spain, it was introduced by the heirs of an authoritarian state after the death of the dictator. In Chile, it was notorious dictator Pinochet himself who decided to hold democratic elections (and lost!).

[Vladd44]

Democracy at the point of a gun is somewhat of an oxymoron.

Correct. But keeping a democracy a democracy takes the second amendment every much as the first.

Doesnt hurt when the citizens are armed, it can help keep their government in line. But there is a vast difference between the citizens being the ones pointing the guns and an occupying force being the agressor.

Sometimes I wonder if you actually read what you type.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Well, we need to reverse that. And we can. I mean, even the DoD has a major environmental program.

We were well on our way to reversing it. Until a certain president completely erased every single advancement of the past twenty years in one quick term.

The first step to improving the environment is abolishing "conservatism" and "Christian" morals. Not Christian morals, but "Christian" morals. You know what I mean. Considering the current voting trend, this seems unlikely.

No, no. GDP is the value of the goods and services made in the US by we workers. Our employees are the most productive in the world. (Of course, I understand that this is mainly due to the financial sector which produces lots of GPD without much identifiable work.)

Why are we the most productive? Because we have capital.

Any given Ethiopian could be just as productive with access to the same resources. The few sources of capital that Africa DOES have end up going to wealthier countries.

Yeah, Capitalism is a grand idea. For the lucky few who have capital to invest.

They'll be gone soon and the sun can come out again.

Not so fast. I see Jeb Bush on the horizon...

Piffle, double piffle, triple piffle. I can refute that in two words: Corvette Z06. It still makes me weep several months after I first read the specifications of the 2006 model. (Of course, it is often said among the Corvette owners that the vette is the only american car they would buy.)

I see you have never owned a Japanese car.

Oh, come on. Violence is necessary for interesting stories. It's in everything from the Bible to Beowulf. Hollywood is no worse than classical opera in this regard. Or Geek theater.

Okay, fine. Most cultures are just as violent anyway.

And sex is good in all cases.

The social impact of sex TV is devastating, but in the back of my mind I would agree with you.





But to balance out my pessimism, here is what I like about America:

- 99 cent stores
- System of a Down
- college football
- chewing gum
- orange soda

[ENIGMA]

Oh, come on. Violence is necessary for interesting stories. It's in everything from the Bible to Beowulf. Hollywood is no worse than classical opera in this regard. Or Geek theater.

Now, now, there's no need to bring Anime and Sci-fi conventions into this...