Have a look.
49 Contradictions Of Islam
Moderator: Moderators
Post #31
Peace be upon you,
"you shall be as God to him";
This word changes the meaning of the phrase;
It's not "You shall be God to him" but "You shall be as God to him";
God said that to other prophet too:
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalm 82:6)
So if this is the "biggest and unbeatable similarity" therefore there were many who came as God;
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: (Exodus 34:14)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)
God's word cannot exist before God speaks it; The same way that God created light, he has created Jesus;
Produce some proof about your allegations concerning the argument "used against Muhammad(saw) to say that Jesus is divine";
And Last:
Your John 1:1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_vi ... #The_Logos
Philo's(c.30 BCE – c.50 CE) conception of the Logos is directly related to the Middle Platonic view of God as unmoved and utterly transcendent. As such, the Logos becomes the aspect of the divine that operates in the world—through whom the world is created and sustained.* Philo, in connecting his doctrine of the Logos with Scripture, first of all bases on Gen. i. 27 the relation of the Logos to God. He translates this passage as follows: "He made man after the image of God," concluding therefrom that an image of God existed. This image of God is the type for all other things (the "Archetypal Idea" of Plato), a seal impressed upon things. The Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.
John has just stolen the work of philo's and your saying that, God says this and God says that;
Though John has steal the work of philo's they have omitted words from the translation;
And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken. (Ezekiel 22:28)
This is what you christians are doing: "Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."
Whatever suits you, you put it in, whatever goes against the bible you reject it, there was no reason for this to stop today, this has been the case before constantine modified the bible;
He could have said in "the law", but why did he say "your law":
Meaning that this is not the law of God but their law to them, they have tampered with God's law and made it theirs;
If I write a book, and give it the title: "Who we are?", but the editor changed it to: "Who we really are?"; This isn't anymore the title I gave; This is what had happened to the bible, they have added, changed and removed to make it suits them;
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
This is the way typical christians do, ignore whatever contradict them, because the OT goes against the NT they ignore the OT;
God said to Jeremiah according to your bible:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)
Jesus was among them, would he have lied???
The previous quote you took means: If you have seen my work you have seen the work of the father;
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. (Matthew 4:19)
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matthew 8:22)
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. (Luke 18:22)
This Guy had ate too much, that is why he had dreams like that;
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
I want you to quote the prophecies not only mention men, I don't trust christians than much;
God has spoke everything into being, but he decides to give then whatever time he has chosen for it to last; The universe will surely collapse, though he has spoke it to be created; It is he who chose the amount of time it will last, everything except God has a beginning and an end; Everything which God spoke was created and God has chosen to add an end to them even to Jesus;
Peace be upon you all;
In the verse you quoted it says(if you did not pay attention):okay, I'll let me put it this way. How about if I use the Quran to prove that Jesus is the son of God?
For all real and truthful things there is always a counterfeit. As I mentioned, the biggest and unbeatable similarity between Jesus and Moses is they were both made as God and this trumps everything Muslims claim about Muhammad's likeness to Moses. Look at Exodus 4:16... He (Aaron) shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be your mouth, and you shall be as God to him. 17 And take in your hand this staff, with which you shall do the signs." I don't blaspheme!
"you shall be as God to him";
This word changes the meaning of the phrase;
It's not "You shall be God to him" but "You shall be as God to him";
God said that to other prophet too:
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalm 82:6)
So if this is the "biggest and unbeatable similarity" therefore there were many who came as God;
You can worship whoever or whatever you want, but God made it clear in the bible:Jesus the son of God was and is as God the last and greatest of all prophets that ever lived and who is worthy of worship. Praise the glorious name of Jesus forever!
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: (Exodus 34:14)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)
First of all:It seems the great divide between Islam and Christianity is Jesus' divinity, but even Allah says in the Quran that Jesus is the "word of God" or Muhammad said it. The Bible states that Jesus is the word of God as well. So on this point we all agree. Now, in the 7th century, Christians used this against Muhammad to say that Jesus is divine, because Allah's word is eternal and uncreated. When Muhammad heard this, he came up with sura 3:7 and said Allah has made some verses unclear for the perversity of believers and only Allah knows what it means; so, Muhammad or you and all Muslim leaders cannot tell us Christians what Jesus being "the word of Allah (God) means so we stick to Jn. 1:1 "In the beginning was the word; the "word" was with God and the word was God" God tells us in the Gospels what God meant by it. IMHO, Muhammad or the best of deceivers didn't want anyone to know Jesus was and is the son of God and therefore the divine word of God made flesh.
God's word cannot exist before God speaks it; The same way that God created light, he has created Jesus;
Produce some proof about your allegations concerning the argument "used against Muhammad(saw) to say that Jesus is divine";
And Last:
Your John 1:1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_vi ... #The_Logos
Philo's(c.30 BCE – c.50 CE) conception of the Logos is directly related to the Middle Platonic view of God as unmoved and utterly transcendent. As such, the Logos becomes the aspect of the divine that operates in the world—through whom the world is created and sustained.* Philo, in connecting his doctrine of the Logos with Scripture, first of all bases on Gen. i. 27 the relation of the Logos to God. He translates this passage as follows: "He made man after the image of God," concluding therefrom that an image of God existed. This image of God is the type for all other things (the "Archetypal Idea" of Plato), a seal impressed upon things. The Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.
John has just stolen the work of philo's and your saying that, God says this and God says that;
Though John has steal the work of philo's they have omitted words from the translation;
No comment; Repetition;So now Allah pulls off the greatest deception since the foundation of creation; he states that Jesus of a surety never died. But in spite of the cover up deception, the truth prevails. May God bring you to the knoweldge of truth. This scenario reminds me of "The Wizard of Oz" When Dorothy spotted the man behind the curtain, the man shouted out "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"
The bible is the work of plagiarithm and you are making as if it comes from God:Allah's word in the Quran that Jesus is God's word presented a serious problem for Muhammad and the only way to fix the problem is to come up with an unclear passage of Koranic Scripture like s 3: 7. All other Scriptures are said to be clear in the Koran, but concerning Jesus being "the word of God" is not clear and only Allah knows best what that means.
And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken. (Ezekiel 22:28)
This is what you christians are doing: "Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."
Jesus's divinity is based upon inferences, and what other have written, as you have said if anything goes against the Bible it is not the Bible, this is because you chose whatever you want to put un your bible;That raises red flags all over the place for me. Christians were coming to Muhammad saying wait a minute, if Jesus is the word of Allah, then He has to be eternal and uncreated like Allah's word is. And since Allah sent the torah & the gospel, the Koran is confirming the gospel's claim of Jesus' divinity
Whatever suits you, you put it in, whatever goes against the bible you reject it, there was no reason for this to stop today, this has been the case before constantine modified the bible;
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10:34)IMHO, the Quran is confirming that Jesus is the word of God like it says in Jn. 1:1, and that is what the Quran was designed to do. It was designed to confirm the SCRIPTURES THAT CAME BEFORE NOT USURP THEM.
He could have said in "the law", but why did he say "your law":
Meaning that this is not the law of God but their law to them, they have tampered with God's law and made it theirs;
If I write a book, and give it the title: "Who we are?", but the editor changed it to: "Who we really are?"; This isn't anymore the title I gave; This is what had happened to the bible, they have added, changed and removed to make it suits them;
Maybe you've missed the verse where Allah made Muhammad(saw) say:Now, modern Muslims are saying that the Scriptures the Quran was supposed to confirm is either corrupted or missing. Muhammad never said this. He NEVER criticized the Script only people.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
This is the way typical christians do, ignore whatever contradict them, because the OT goes against the NT they ignore the OT;
The how was Jesus in the time of Abraham?Now the Quran saying that Jesus is the WORD OF GOD makes sense of all the Spriptures that came before such as Jesus saying, "Before Abraham was I am..
God said to Jeremiah according to your bible:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)If you have seen me you have seen the father...
Jesus was among them, would he have lied???
The previous quote you took means: If you have seen my work you have seen the work of the father;
A way is made to be follow not to be crucified, he was telling you to follow him, follow his teachings not to crucify him and believe in crucifixion;I am the way, truth and life... /no one comes to the father except through me
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. (Matthew 4:19)
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matthew 8:22)
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. (Luke 18:22)
This was in a nightmare, the only time this spirit identifies himself with Jesus he says he is Satan too;I am the beginning and the end…
This Guy had ate too much, that is why he had dreams like that;
The prince of peace said:Notice Jesus didn't say I show the way and truth He said I am. These are Jesus' claims. Now look at what prophecy says about Him. He is the everlasting father, Prince of Peace, mighty God, wonderful counselor, author and finisher of our faith and the list goes on for eternity.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
I want you to quote the prophecies not only mention men, I don't trust christians than much;
You did not prove anything, you have just gave some philosophies, lies and corrupted scriptures, written by men, not prophets;You said prove Jesus to you. I have done that; will you follow Him?
You are free to rejoice about others fate, It is preferable to have the same fate than him rather than blind belief out of ignorance;Ahmed Deedat spent his whole life poking his finger in God's eye with his blasphemous comments look at him the last years of his life:
According to your bible everything is doomed for destruction;The point is God's word is co eternal; He exalts His word above all His name as stated in the Scriptures. That is why the Bible states all things we made for Jesus, by jesus, and through Jesus. IOW, Jesus is the word God used to speak all things into existence
God has spoke everything into being, but he decides to give then whatever time he has chosen for it to last; The universe will surely collapse, though he has spoke it to be created; It is he who chose the amount of time it will last, everything except God has a beginning and an end; Everything which God spoke was created and God has chosen to add an end to them even to Jesus;
Peace be upon you all;
Post #32
Peace be upon you,
"you shall be as God to him";
This word changes the meaning of the phrase;
It's not "You shall be God to him" but "You shall be as God to him";
God said that to other prophet too:
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalm 82:6)
So if this is the "biggest and unbeatable similarity" therefore there were many who came as God;
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: (Exodus 34:14)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)
God's word cannot exist before God speaks it; The same way that God created light, he has created Jesus;
Produce some proof about your allegations concerning the argument "used against Muhammad(saw) to say that Jesus is divine";
And Last:
Your John 1:1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_vi ... #The_Logos
Philo's(c.30 BCE – c.50 CE) conception of the Logos is directly related to the Middle Platonic view of God as unmoved and utterly transcendent. As such, the Logos becomes the aspect of the divine that operates in the world—through whom the world is created and sustained.* Philo, in connecting his doctrine of the Logos with Scripture, first of all bases on Gen. i. 27 the relation of the Logos to God. He translates this passage as follows: "He made man after the image of God," concluding therefrom that an image of God existed. This image of God is the type for all other things (the "Archetypal Idea" of Plato), a seal impressed upon things. The Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.
John has just stolen the work of philo's and your saying that, God says this and God says that;
Though John has steal the work of philo's they have omitted words from the translation;
And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken. (Ezekiel 22:28)
This is what you christians are doing: "Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."
Whatever suits you, you put it in, whatever goes against the bible you reject it, there was no reason for this to stop today, this has been the case before constantine modified the bible;
He could have said in "the law", but why did he say "your law":
Meaning that this is not the law of God but their law to them, they have tampered with God's law and made it theirs;
If I write a book, and give it the title: "Who we are?", but the editor changed it to: "Who we really are?"; This isn't anymore the title I gave; This is what had happened to the bible, they have added, changed and removed to make it suits them;
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
This is the way typical christians do, ignore whatever contradict them, because the OT goes against the NT they ignore the OT;
God said to Jeremiah according to your bible:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)
Jesus was among them, would he have lied???
The previous quote you took means: If you have seen my work you have seen the work of the father;
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. (Matthew 4:19)
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matthew 8:22)
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. (Luke 18:22)
This Guy had ate too much, that is why he had dreams like that;
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
I want you to quote the prophecies not only mention men, I don't trust christians than much;
God has spoke everything into being, but he decides to give then whatever time he has chosen for it to last; The universe will surely collapse, though he has spoke it to be created; It is he who chose the amount of time it will last, everything except God has a beginning and an end; Everything which God spoke was created and God has chosen to add an end to them even to Jesus;
Peace be upon you all;
In the verse you quoted it says(if you did not pay attention):okay, I'll let me put it this way. How about if I use the Quran to prove that Jesus is the son of God?
For all real and truthful things there is always a counterfeit. As I mentioned, the biggest and unbeatable similarity between Jesus and Moses is they were both made as God and this trumps everything Muslims claim about Muhammad's likeness to Moses. Look at Exodus 4:16... He (Aaron) shall speak for you to the people, and he shall be your mouth, and you shall be as God to him. 17 And take in your hand this staff, with which you shall do the signs." I don't blaspheme!
"you shall be as God to him";
This word changes the meaning of the phrase;
It's not "You shall be God to him" but "You shall be as God to him";
God said that to other prophet too:
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. (Psalm 82:6)
So if this is the "biggest and unbeatable similarity" therefore there were many who came as God;
You can worship whoever or whatever you want, but God made it clear in the bible:Jesus the son of God was and is as God the last and greatest of all prophets that ever lived and who is worthy of worship. Praise the glorious name of Jesus forever!
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: (Exodus 34:14)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)
First of all:It seems the great divide between Islam and Christianity is Jesus' divinity, but even Allah says in the Quran that Jesus is the "word of God" or Muhammad said it. The Bible states that Jesus is the word of God as well. So on this point we all agree. Now, in the 7th century, Christians used this against Muhammad to say that Jesus is divine, because Allah's word is eternal and uncreated. When Muhammad heard this, he came up with sura 3:7 and said Allah has made some verses unclear for the perversity of believers and only Allah knows what it means; so, Muhammad or you and all Muslim leaders cannot tell us Christians what Jesus being "the word of Allah (God) means so we stick to Jn. 1:1 "In the beginning was the word; the "word" was with God and the word was God" God tells us in the Gospels what God meant by it. IMHO, Muhammad or the best of deceivers didn't want anyone to know Jesus was and is the son of God and therefore the divine word of God made flesh.
God's word cannot exist before God speaks it; The same way that God created light, he has created Jesus;
Produce some proof about your allegations concerning the argument "used against Muhammad(saw) to say that Jesus is divine";
And Last:
Your John 1:1:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_vi ... #The_Logos
Philo's(c.30 BCE – c.50 CE) conception of the Logos is directly related to the Middle Platonic view of God as unmoved and utterly transcendent. As such, the Logos becomes the aspect of the divine that operates in the world—through whom the world is created and sustained.* Philo, in connecting his doctrine of the Logos with Scripture, first of all bases on Gen. i. 27 the relation of the Logos to God. He translates this passage as follows: "He made man after the image of God," concluding therefrom that an image of God existed. This image of God is the type for all other things (the "Archetypal Idea" of Plato), a seal impressed upon things. The Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.
John has just stolen the work of philo's and your saying that, God says this and God says that;
Though John has steal the work of philo's they have omitted words from the translation;
No comment; Repetition;So now Allah pulls off the greatest deception since the foundation of creation; he states that Jesus of a surety never died. But in spite of the cover up deception, the truth prevails. May God bring you to the knoweldge of truth. This scenario reminds me of "The Wizard of Oz" When Dorothy spotted the man behind the curtain, the man shouted out "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain"
The bible is the work of plagiarithm and you are making as if it comes from God:Allah's word in the Quran that Jesus is God's word presented a serious problem for Muhammad and the only way to fix the problem is to come up with an unclear passage of Koranic Scripture like s 3: 7. All other Scriptures are said to be clear in the Koran, but concerning Jesus being "the word of God" is not clear and only Allah knows best what that means.
And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken. (Ezekiel 22:28)
This is what you christians are doing: "Thus saith the Lord God, when the Lord hath not spoken."
Jesus's divinity is based upon inferences, and what other have written, as you have said if anything goes against the Bible it is not the Bible, this is because you chose whatever you want to put un your bible;That raises red flags all over the place for me. Christians were coming to Muhammad saying wait a minute, if Jesus is the word of Allah, then He has to be eternal and uncreated like Allah's word is. And since Allah sent the torah & the gospel, the Koran is confirming the gospel's claim of Jesus' divinity
Whatever suits you, you put it in, whatever goes against the bible you reject it, there was no reason for this to stop today, this has been the case before constantine modified the bible;
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (John 10:34)IMHO, the Quran is confirming that Jesus is the word of God like it says in Jn. 1:1, and that is what the Quran was designed to do. It was designed to confirm the SCRIPTURES THAT CAME BEFORE NOT USURP THEM.
He could have said in "the law", but why did he say "your law":
Meaning that this is not the law of God but their law to them, they have tampered with God's law and made it theirs;
If I write a book, and give it the title: "Who we are?", but the editor changed it to: "Who we really are?"; This isn't anymore the title I gave; This is what had happened to the bible, they have added, changed and removed to make it suits them;
Maybe you've missed the verse where Allah made Muhammad(saw) say:Now, modern Muslims are saying that the Scriptures the Quran was supposed to confirm is either corrupted or missing. Muhammad never said this. He NEVER criticized the Script only people.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
This is the way typical christians do, ignore whatever contradict them, because the OT goes against the NT they ignore the OT;
The how was Jesus in the time of Abraham?Now the Quran saying that Jesus is the WORD OF GOD makes sense of all the Spriptures that came before such as Jesus saying, "Before Abraham was I am..
God said to Jeremiah according to your bible:
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)If you have seen me you have seen the father...
Jesus was among them, would he have lied???
The previous quote you took means: If you have seen my work you have seen the work of the father;
A way is made to be follow not to be crucified, he was telling you to follow him, follow his teachings not to crucify him and believe in crucifixion;I am the way, truth and life... /no one comes to the father except through me
And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men. (Matthew 4:19)
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. (Matthew 8:22)
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. (Luke 18:22)
This was in a nightmare, the only time this spirit identifies himself with Jesus he says he is Satan too;I am the beginning and the end…
This Guy had ate too much, that is why he had dreams like that;
The prince of peace said:Notice Jesus didn't say I show the way and truth He said I am. These are Jesus' claims. Now look at what prophecy says about Him. He is the everlasting father, Prince of Peace, mighty God, wonderful counselor, author and finisher of our faith and the list goes on for eternity.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matthew 10:34)
I want you to quote the prophecies not only mention men, I don't trust christians than much;
You did not prove anything, you have just gave some philosophies, lies and corrupted scriptures, written by men, not prophets;You said prove Jesus to you. I have done that; will you follow Him?
You are free to rejoice about others fate, It is preferable to have the same fate than him rather than blind belief out of ignorance;Ahmed Deedat spent his whole life poking his finger in God's eye with his blasphemous comments look at him the last years of his life:
According to your bible everything is doomed for destruction;The point is God's word is co eternal; He exalts His word above all His name as stated in the Scriptures. That is why the Bible states all things we made for Jesus, by jesus, and through Jesus. IOW, Jesus is the word God used to speak all things into existence
God has spoke everything into being, but he decides to give then whatever time he has chosen for it to last; The universe will surely collapse, though he has spoke it to be created; It is he who chose the amount of time it will last, everything except God has a beginning and an end; Everything which God spoke was created and God has chosen to add an end to them even to Jesus;
Peace be upon you all;
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Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
the word of God
Post #33Look at Ibn Kathir's explanations of Christians challenging Muhammad about Jesus being "the word of God"Asher wrote: Peace be upon you,You can worship whoever or whatever you want, but God made it clear in the bible:Jesus the son of God was and is as God the last and greatest of all prophets that ever lived and who is worthy of worship. Praise the glorious name of Jesus forever!
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: (Exodus 34:14)
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Exodus 20:3)
First of all:It seems the great divide between Islam and Christianity is Jesus' divinity, but even Allah says in the Quran that Jesus is the "word of God" or Muhammad said it. The Bible states that Jesus is the word of God as well. So on this point we all agree. Now, in the 7th century, Christians used this against Muhammad to say that Jesus is divine, because Allah's word is eternal and uncreated. When Muhammad heard this, he came up with sura 3:7 and said Allah has made some verses unclear for the perversity of believers and only Allah knows what it means; so, Muhammad or you and all Muslim leaders cannot tell us Christians what Jesus being "the word of Allah (God) means so we stick to Jn. 1:1 "In the beginning was the word; the "word" was with God and the word was God" God tells us in the Gospels what God meant by it. IMHO, Muhammad or the best of deceivers didn't want anyone to know Jesus was and is the son of God and therefore the divine word of God made flesh.
God's word cannot exist before God speaks it; The same way that God created light, he has created Jesus;
Produce some proof about your allegations concerning the argument "used against Muhammad(saw) to say that Jesus is divine";
You said "God's word cannot exist before God speaks it" Lol, that is a ridiculous grasping at straws of a comment. If God didn't have His word, what would He have and what could He do??? Now Jesus being the word of God is something you should meditate on day and night. If you do, your eyes will be open. You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free!
God's will is for you to believe in his word who is Jesus. John 6: 26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.� 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?� 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.�
Jesus was the word that was sent. Trust in the word of God; that is all we have to save us. Everything thing else is a lie. Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true. Jesus is the word of God; Jesus is God's word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post #34
Peace be upon you;
Your allusion that you made about God without his word is like a radio without a speaker, God is not like that;
I God needed Jesus to created the universe then he is not God, God does not need anyone or anything, he is sufficient to himself;
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)
Muhammad(saw) is the only who claims to repeat everything that he has heard;
do you believe in this:
Hebrews 7:1-4
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Why don't you pray the "King of Salem"?, he is greater than Jesus, Jesus has a mother.
Peace be upon you all;
What is ridiculous is to think that God is like an apparel containing several modules,You said "God's word cannot exist before God speaks it" Lol, that is a ridiculous grasping at straws of a commnet. If God didn't have His word, what would He have and what could He do???
Your allusion that you made about God without his word is like a radio without a speaker, God is not like that;
I God needed Jesus to created the universe then he is not God, God does not need anyone or anything, he is sufficient to himself;
I have already been set free from the lies of Christianity;Now Jesu being the word of God is something you should meditate on day and night. If you do, your eyes will be open. You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free!
When you believe in Jesus you should believe when he said:God's will is for you to believe in his word who is Jesus.
John 6:
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.�
28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?�
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.�
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)
Muhammad(saw) is the only who claims to repeat everything that he has heard;
Then why do you believe Paul?Jesus was the word that was sent. Trust in the word of God; that is all we have to save us. Everything thing else is a lie. Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true. Jesus is the word of God; Jesus is God's word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do you believe in this:
Hebrews 7:1-4
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Why don't you pray the "King of Salem"?, he is greater than Jesus, Jesus has a mother.
Peace be upon you all;
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Burninglight
- Guru
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- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #35
Do you remember Jesus saying before Abraham was I am? Well, this was before the word became flesh the son of man. Melchizedek was a manifestation of "the word of God" Jesus was the last manifestation of the word of God to reconcile the world to himself. Adam had no mother or physical father, but He was part of God's creation. Besides he sinned. After Adam, God didn't need to create anyone without father or mother that is why Jesus is the unique son of God. That's why it is written: "He that has the son has life and he that doesn't have the son has not life but the wrath of God abides on him."Asher wrote: Peace be upon you;What is ridiculous is to think that God is like an apparel containing several modules,You said "God's word cannot exist before God speaks it" Lol, that is a ridiculous grasping at straws of a commnet. If God didn't have His word, what would He have and what could He do???
Your allusion that you made about God without his word is like a radio without a speaker, God is not like that;
I God needed Jesus to created the universe then he is not God, God does not need anyone or anything, he is sufficient to himself;
I have already been set free from the lies of Christianity;Now Jesu being the word of God is something you should meditate on day and night. If you do, your eyes will be open. You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free!
When you believe in Jesus you should believe when he said:God's will is for you to believe in his word who is Jesus.
John 6:
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.
27 Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal.�
28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?�
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.�
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (John 16:13)
Muhammad(saw) is the only who claims to repeat everything that he has heard;
Then why do you believe Paul?Jesus was the word that was sent. Trust in the word of God; that is all we have to save us. Everything thing else is a lie. Let every man be a liar, but God's word is true. Jesus is the word of God; Jesus is God's word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
do you believe in this:
Hebrews 7:1-4
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Why don't you pray the "King of Salem"?, he is greater than Jesus, Jesus has a mother.
Maybe you've missed the verse where Allah made Muhammad(saw) say:
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
This is the way typical christians do, ignore whatever contradict them, because the OT goes against the NT they ignore the OT;
Peace be upon you all;
So you were a Christian? Look at Gal 3.
As far as the verse you quote from the Quran: of those that wrote in the book for a miserable price. This is not Muhammad saying the Bible is corrupted. Modern Muslim are making that false inference that cannot be supported. Muhammad never said the Torah or injeel were corrupted or missing. He criticize people never the script. Besides, only today's Muslims are willing to believe that man's power to corrupt the Scriptures that came before are greater than God's power to preserve them like He promised. Moreover, if God wasn't able to preserve previous Scripture what makes you think he can do it now? lol.
Finally, you say that we go against the OT because of the NT. First of all that is not true. Jesus fulfilled all the law and the prophets and when we love God with all our heart soul and mind and neighbor as ourself than we also have fulfilled all the law and the prophets. Besides, Muslims don't believe the Torah either. They use the excuse it is corrupted.
Post #36
Peace be upon you;
"Muhammad said that Jesus is "the word of God" Therefore, Jesus is eternal, because God's word is uncreated and eternal and unchangeable. There was never a time God was without His word. You are standing on a slippy slope."
"If God didn't have His word, what would He have and what could He do???"
Your bible doesn't support the idea of Jesus the only son, besides Jon 3:16 says begotten:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
And you told me somewhere that Jesus is not begotten, either you are lying or the bible is lying(or corrupted), it cannot be both;
Then a question about Melchizedek rises: How did he came into being? I had never heard of him before I read this letter of Paul;
How can the bible has a beginning if is the word of God? (according to you "God's word is uncreated(no beginning) and eternal(no end) and unchangeable", exactly like Melchizedek)
John 5:37-44
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
1 Corinthians 11:1-2
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
That is christianity, followers of Paul, not of Christ; He seeks for honor in this word; Jesus prophecies about him, but as usual you turn a blind eye;
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
Of which book refers this verse of the Qur'an?
I see it completely fitting the "Gospels":
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, (Luke 1:3)
also: means having other too doing it;
perfect understanding of all things: He was not inspired be he has completely understood everything;
to write unto thee in order: He was not given the order by God to write them;
What is the promise of God? I think it is that his words is preserve in heaven: That is why Jesus taught you to ask him to make his will on earth as in heaven;
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. (Jeremiah 8:8)
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. (Luke 11:2)
The Christians have ask that for more than 500 years, and God gave the Qur'an; And he has chosen to preserve the Qur'an, as his word which is "forever establish in heave";
You said Jesus fulfilled the laws:
Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
You were right but you should also take into consideration that the law is still active until now, as far as I know heaven and earth have not yet pass;
According to your(common of Christians) understanding of the NT Jesus died for the sins of all humanity, The OT says that the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him;
I would really appreciate that you answer me point wise as I do for you, so that you do not skip my questions, thank you;
Peace be upon you all;
Yes, I was asking how he was at that time; Before he became flesh how was he?Do you remember Jesus saying before Abraham was I am? Well, this was before the word became flesh the son of man.
Then according to your logic Melchizedek was also God;Melchizedek was a manifestation of "the word of God" Jesus was the last manifestation of the word of God to reconcile the world to himself.
"Muhammad said that Jesus is "the word of God" Therefore, Jesus is eternal, because God's word is uncreated and eternal and unchangeable. There was never a time God was without His word. You are standing on a slippy slope."
"If God didn't have His word, what would He have and what could He do???"
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. (Luke 3:38)Adam had no mother or physical father, but He was part of God's creation. Besides he sinned. After Adam, God didn't need to create anyone without father or mother that is why Jesus is the unique son of God. That's why it is written: "He that has the son has life and he that doesn't have the son has not life but the wrath of God abides on him."
Your bible doesn't support the idea of Jesus the only son, besides Jon 3:16 says begotten:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
And you told me somewhere that Jesus is not begotten, either you are lying or the bible is lying(or corrupted), it cannot be both;
Then a question about Melchizedek rises: How did he came into being? I had never heard of him before I read this letter of Paul;
How can the bible has a beginning if is the word of God? (according to you "God's word is uncreated(no beginning) and eternal(no end) and unchangeable", exactly like Melchizedek)
Paul again. I do not receive any coming by themselves;So you were a Christian? Look at Gal 3.
John 5:37-44
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41 I receive not honour from men.
42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
1 Corinthians 11:1-2
1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
That is christianity, followers of Paul, not of Christ; He seeks for honor in this word; Jesus prophecies about him, but as usual you turn a blind eye;
You misquoted the verse it is:As far as the verse you quote from the Quran: of those that wrote in the book for a miserable price. This is not Muhammad saying the Bible is corrupted. Modern Muslim are making that false inference that cannot be supported.
Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say, "This is from Allâh," to purchase with it a little price! woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for that they earn thereby.(Qur'an 2:79)
Of which book refers this verse of the Qur'an?
I see it completely fitting the "Gospels":
It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, (Luke 1:3)
also: means having other too doing it;
perfect understanding of all things: He was not inspired be he has completely understood everything;
to write unto thee in order: He was not given the order by God to write them;
Tell me then on the second coming of Jesus which "gospel" will he preach from among the 4?Muhammad never said the Torah or injeel were corrupted or missing. He criticize people never the script. Besides, only today's Muslims are willing to believe that man's power to corrupt the Scriptures that came before are greater than God's power to preserve them like He promised.
What is the promise of God? I think it is that his words is preserve in heaven: That is why Jesus taught you to ask him to make his will on earth as in heaven;
How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. (Jeremiah 8:8)
Jesus taught you to pray to God:Moreover, if God wasn't able to preserve previous Scripture what makes you think he can do it now? lol.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)
And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. (Luke 11:2)
The Christians have ask that for more than 500 years, and God gave the Qur'an; And he has chosen to preserve the Qur'an, as his word which is "forever establish in heave";
We don't use the Torah because we have received our own book, which goes with the original teachings of the OT; Jeremiah told us that the laws have been made vain;Finally, you say that we go against the OT because of the NT. First of all that is not true. Jesus fulfilled all the law and the prophets and when we love God with all our heart soul and mind and neighbor as ourself than we also have fulfilled all the law and the prophets. Besides, Muslims don't believe the Torah either. They use the excuse it is corrupted.
You said Jesus fulfilled the laws:
Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
You were right but you should also take into consideration that the law is still active until now, as far as I know heaven and earth have not yet pass;
According to your(common of Christians) understanding of the NT Jesus died for the sins of all humanity, The OT says that the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him;
I would really appreciate that you answer me point wise as I do for you, so that you do not skip my questions, thank you;
Peace be upon you all;
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #37
the woe verse you quoted you asked which book does it pertain to in the Quran ? I have no idea. But it's not talking about the Bible. Christians don't believe in the Islamic Allah so they wouldn't say this is from Allah.
Your next question is which gospel will Jesus preach when He comes back? He will preach no gospel the day of good news is over; judgment comes and comes right quick
Your next question is which gospel will Jesus preach when He comes back? He will preach no gospel the day of good news is over; judgment comes and comes right quick
Post #38
Peace be upon you
If you don't know; Just say "I don't know";
But do not come with stupid reasons;
Which one of the 4 Gospels did Jesus preached when he was on earth;
Peace be upon you all;
This is a pathetic answer:the woe verse you quoted you asked which book does it pertain to in the Quran ? I have no idea. But it's not talking about the Bible. Christians don't believe in the Islamic Allah so they wouldn't say this is from Allah.
If you don't know; Just say "I don't know";
But do not come with stupid reasons;
Maybe I have not well formulated my question:Your next question is which gospel will Jesus preach when He comes back? He will preach no gospel the day of good news is over; judgment comes and comes right quick
Which one of the 4 Gospels did Jesus preached when he was on earth;
Peace be upon you all;
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Burninglight
- Guru
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- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #39
Asher wrote: Peace be upon youthe woe verse you quoted you asked which book does it pertain to in the Quran ? I have no idea. But it's not talking about the Bible. Christians don't believe in the Islamic Allah so they wouldn't say this is from Allah.It is not a stupid reason; it is the truth. There is no evidence that verse is referring to the Bible or anything in it. Moreover, Christians don't believe that verse is from God. Who knows what Muhammad was referring to?Asher wrote:
This is a pathetic answer:
If you don't know; Just say "I don't know";
But do not come with stupid reasons;;
Your next question is which gospel will Jesus preach when He comes back? He will preach no gospel. The day of good news will be over; judgment comes and comes right quickWell this is a different question. Jesus only said what is written in the red letters of my Bible (red letter edition); so, all you have to do is look at what Jesus said in the gospels, and you'll know exactly what He preached. You don't need to ask me.Asher wrote:
Maybe I have not well formulated my question:
Which one of the 4 Gospels did Jesus preached when he was on earth;
Peace be upon you all;
Post #40
We muslim we know to what he was referring, now you are trying to teach us to understand our book, like you did with the Jews(OT);It is not a stupid reason; it is the truth. There is no evidence that verse is referring to the Bible or anything in it. Moreover, Christians don't believe that verse is from God. Who knows what Muhammad was referring to?
The "Gospels" and Epistles were written by men, and christians says that it is from God;
This is exactly what the verse is telling;
But I think that I'm getting confused:Well this is a different question. Jesus only said what is written in the red letters of my Bible (red letter edition); so, all you have to do is look at what Jesus said in the gospels, and you'll know exactly what He preached. You don't need to ask me.
I think Jesus was deaf or had ears problems:
And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.(Luke 3:22)
But Jesus didn't hear that:
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)
Which one is the truth "God's word" or "Jesus's word"?
