Sura 4:136 - O you who believe, you shall believe in GOD and His messenger, and the scripture He has revealed through His messenger, and the scripture He has revealed before that. Anyone who refuses to believe in GOD, and His angels, and His scriptures, and His messengers, and the Last Day, has indeed strayed far astray.
If the Quran advises Muslims to "believe...the scripture He has revealed before that", why don't they believe the Bible?
The Quran and the Bible
Moderator: Moderators
Post #31
Moderator Intervention
I will ask Apple Pie to avoid one-liners which are not productive. It is fine to ask questions, but you have a whole string of posts like this where you really are not making a substantive response.
In addition, while debaters may allude to the original language of sacred writings, this is an English language site and you cannot expect others to be willing to discuss the original languages.
Apple Pie wrote:Show us here, brother...in the original Arabic...TrueReligion wrote:
haha, you want me to show you verses, where its mention that people changed annd tempered the scripture sent by God? make another thread for bible, I will show you how many errors are there in bible . and wil show you with your own christian scholars and theologians.
I will ask Apple Pie to avoid one-liners which are not productive. It is fine to ask questions, but you have a whole string of posts like this where you really are not making a substantive response.
In addition, while debaters may allude to the original language of sacred writings, this is an English language site and you cannot expect others to be willing to discuss the original languages.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Post #32
Show us this whole "string of posts" in full context...micatala wrote:
I will ask Apple Pie to avoid one-liners which are not productive. It is fine to ask questions, but you have a whole string of posts like this where you really are not making a substantive response.
Where have the debaters "alluded" to the original languages?In addition, while debaters may allude to the original language of sacred writings, this is an English language site and you cannot expect others to be willing to discuss the original languages.
Post #33
If the Arabic was clear, then there would not be a need for so many separate and different "authorized" renderings.TrueReligion wrote:Arabic of Quran is crystal clear, what meaning you are deriving, is not clear and not correct:)Apple Pie wrote:Is the Arabic clear?TrueReligion wrote: Told you, no comments will be provided to you, unless you learn the mannners and ethics of debate.
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Jester
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Post #34
Moderator Comment
Repeated breaking of the rules after such corrections will result in probation and, eventually, banishment.
Apple Pie wrote:Show us this whole "string of posts" in full context...
Public response to moderator correction is not allowed under the rules. If you have questions, send a private message.Apple Pie wrote:Where have the debaters "alluded" to the original languages?
Repeated breaking of the rules after such corrections will result in probation and, eventually, banishment.
We must continually ask ourselves whether victory has become more central to our goals than truth.
Post #35
TrueReligion wrote: "Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,' to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.� (The Noble Qur'an, 2:77-79)
The Book refers to the book of the People of the Book(aka Men of Faith), which section 9 in Chapter 2 talks about. The Noble Qur'an clearly says that the Book was corrupted by men, “those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is from Allah,�. It can’t get any clearer then that!
ومنهم أميون لا يعلمون الكتب إلا أماني وإن هم إلا يظنون �ويل للذين يكتبون الكتب بأيديهم ثم يقولون هذا من عند الله ليشتروا به ثمنا قليلا �ويل لهم مما كتبت أيديهم وويل لهم مما يكسبون
Waminhum ommiyyoona la yaAAlamoona alkitaba illa amaniyya wa-in hum illa yathunnoona fawaylun lillatheena yaktuboona alkitaba bi-aydeehim thumma yaqooloona hatha min AAindi Allahi liyashtaroo bihi thamanan qaleelan fawaylun lahum mimma katabat aydeehim wawaylun lahum mimma yaksiboona
And from them, who have no revealed scriptures of their own, they do not know The Book except as wishes and them except they conjecture. So woe to those, they write The Book with their hands, then they say: "This from with “allah�.� That they may acquire with it a small price, so woe to them from what their hands have written, and woe to them from what they accomplish. (2.78 – 79)
As you can see, your example is discussing those who have no revealed scriptures of their own (ommiyyoona), and who do not know (la yaAAlamoona) The Book as writing their very own brand of conjecture (yathunnoona).
These passages are not discussing mainstream Christians or Jews.
Nor are they claiming that The Holy Bible is in error in any fashion whatsoever.
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TrueReligion
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Post #36
The translation was made for different mind of people,. REST Quran in Arabic as only 1 version (unlike bible with several versions).Apple Pie wrote:If the Arabic was clear, then there would not be a need for so many separate and different "authorized" renderings.TrueReligion wrote:Arabic of Quran is crystal clear, what meaning you are deriving, is not clear and not correct:)Apple Pie wrote:Is the Arabic clear?TrueReligion wrote: Told you, no comments will be provided to you, unless you learn the mannners and ethics of debate.
E.g Pickthal has translation similar to Greek Acsent
Yousuf Ali's translation is quite in simple english
and on and on, so its for all kind of audience, but the main thing is meaning remain same, and the original arabic didnt change and differ in any of the translation
Which is unlike in the case of Bible, as Hebrew, Greek, Samaritan, English, Latin, all have different meanings.
This clearly justifies that Bible have contradictions and errors, whereas Quran does;nbt have any error in the text, runing from 1400 till date.
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TrueReligion
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Post #37
For bible errors, Ive created another post "50,000 ERRORS IN BIBLE", you are invited there and discuss the errors.Apple Pie wrote:As you can see, your example is discussing those who have no revealed scriptures of their own (ommiyyoona), and who do not know (la yaAAlamoona) The Book as writing their very own brand of conjecture (yathunnoona).
These passages are not discussing mainstream Christians or Jews.
Nor are they claiming that The Holy Bible is in error in any fashion whatsoever.
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 154#271154
Its replied already what the verse means, that the Jwes and christians (who were before muslims) have changed the scriptures.
Ofcourse this verse is said to Muslims, and Muslims dont have other scripture with them, so this verse cannot be implemented on Muslims.
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TrueReligion
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Post #39
Read the history you will find out:)Apple Pie wrote:Show us a 1400 year old Koran.TrueReligion wrote: This clearly justifies that Bible have contradictions and errors, whereas Quran does;nbt have any error in the text, runing from 1400 till date.
http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=335.0
Post #40
No 1400 year old Koran.TrueReligion wrote:Read the history you will find out:)Apple Pie wrote:Show us a 1400 year old Koran.TrueReligion wrote: This clearly justifies that Bible have contradictions and errors, whereas Quran does;nbt have any error in the text, runing from 1400 till date.
http://jannah.org/madina/index.php?topic=335.0
Another islamic myth lampooned.
