"A FLOOD of NONSENSE! - Global Flood or Mass Extinctions?"

[Miles]

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A delightful explanation of why the notion of a global flood---the Noachian Flood---doesn't make any sense.




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Question: Is any of what Forrest Valkai, the host, said, wrong? If so, what and why?


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[marke]

You also failed to explain what one of these extinction events would have to do with the flood story we can read in the Bible.


If we have determined that extinction events occurred in the past by examining the fossil record then we can assume there must have been some sort of massive flooding that killed, buried, and preserved those creatures as fossils.

AI Overview
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Living creatures become fossils when their remains are quickly buried by sediment like sand or mud after they die, which prevents decay and allows minerals in the surrounding water to gradually replace the organic material, leaving a hardened mineralized replica of the organism, usually preserving only the hard parts like bones, shells, or teeth; this process is called fossilization.

[marke]

Nevertheless, let's examine some of the several theories secularists have come up with in efforts to explain the unknown causes of the events. This one is about the extinction of dinosaurs and was concocted about 30 years ago to try to explain what might have caused the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Got it! So scientists didn't make observations, and then hypothesizes to then explain the observations and then form falsifiable theories to test against? They just wanted to explain dinosaur extinction 30 years ago? Is that really your argument?

Yes, researchers observe and record. Researchers determined centuries ago that dinosaurs must have died off the earth many years ago.

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Researchers first noted the extinction of dinosaurs around the 1820s, with Georges Cuvier, considered the "founding father of paleontology," observing a significant transition in fauna between the Mesozoic and Cenozoic eras, where dinosaur fossils were not found in younger rock layers, indicating their disappearance at that time.
Key points about the discovery of dinosaur extinction:
Early observations: Georges Cuvier first identified the mass extinction event by noticing a lack of dinosaur fossils in younger geological layers.
Time period: This observation was made around the 1820s.
Significance: This marked the beginning of scientific understanding regarding the extinction of dinosaurs.

After noticing the extinction of dinosaurs scientists began trying to discover what caused the mass extinction, and it took them the better part of 150 years to come up with this guess:

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The idea that an asteroid impact caused the mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous period was first proposed in 1980 by Luis and Walter Alvarez. The theory was initially controversial, but is now widely accepted.
Explanation
In 1980, Luis and Walter Alvarez published a paper that proposed an asteroid impact as the cause of the mass extinction. The paper was controversial because the location of the impact crater was unknown.
In the early 1990s, the Chicxulub crater was discovered in Mexico's Yucatán Peninsula. The crater's size and location confirmed the Alvarez hypothesis.
The impact caused a lingering winter that halted photosynthesis, which devastated the global environment. This, along with other factors, is thought to have led to the extinction of the dinosaurs and many other species.


Is that it, then? There is no longer any debate or doubt that the Chicxulub impact definitely caused the extinction of the dinosaurs? No, the debate continues as more guesses come forward.

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/ ... dinosaurs/

The cataclysm that killed the dinosaurs
Juan Siliezar

Harvard Staff Writer

February 15, 2021
5 min read
New theory explains possible origin of plummeting Chicxulub impactor that struck off Mexico

[Clownboat]

Your opinion is noted and is something that is fairly commonly held among young earth creationists. However, this fails to address which extinction event you are talking about.

There is no unified agreement among secularists as to how many extinction events occurred, when they occurred, or what caused them.

I agree that we cannot know how many extinction events have occurred and we do in fact not know about the ones we don't know about.
So to address not knowing when the unknown ones happened, or what caused the unknown ones, how would you suggest we go about knowing that what we don't know?

Did you have a question? Anything for me to respond to?

[marke]

Your opinion is noted and is something that is fairly commonly held among young earth creationists. However, this fails to address which extinction event you are talking about.

There is no unified agreement among secularists as to how many extinction events occurred, when they occurred, or what caused them.

I agree that we cannot know how many extinction events have occurred and we do in fact not know about the ones we don't know about.
So to address not knowing when the unknown ones happened, or what caused the unknown ones, how would you suggest we go about knowing that what we don't know?

Did you have a question? Anything for me to respond to?

Extinction events are catastrophic and point to highly unusual causes. Since dinosaur remains have been tested at younger than 50,000 years then the possibility exists that there was only one massive extinction event which had major flooding and flood sediment depositions and that was the flood of Noah's day.

[Clownboat]

Extinction events are catastrophic and point to highly unusual causes. Since dinosaur remains have been tested at younger than 50,000 years then the possibility exists that there was only one massive extinction event which had major flooding and flood sediment depositions and that was the flood of Noah's day.

We have information on more than one extinction event as I already showed you.
I see you insert a story from the Bible to explain one of them. Why are you doing that and how far back are you willing to put the Noah story?

[Jose Fly]

If we have determined that extinction events occurred in the past by examining the fossil record then we can assume there must have been some sort of massive flooding that killed, buried, and preserved those creatures as fossils.

What kind of bizarre logic is that? There have been multiple extinction events therefore the globe was flooded recently?

[Clownboat]

If we have determined that extinction events occurred in the past by examining the fossil record then we can assume there must have been some sort of massive flooding that killed, buried, and preserved those creatures as fossils.

What kind of bizarre logic is that? There have been multiple extinction events therefore the globe was flooded recently?

If someone holds a strong belief or opinion that wasn't formed through logical reasoning, trying to change their mind with facts and arguments alone is likely to be ineffective. Essentially, you cannot use logic to persuade a person to abandon a position they didn't arrive at logically in the first place. (Credit to Jonathan Swift)

[marke]

Extinction events are catastrophic and point to highly unusual causes. Since dinosaur remains have been tested at younger than 50,000 years then the possibility exists that there was only one massive extinction event which had major flooding and flood sediment depositions and that was the flood of Noah's day.

We have information on more than one extinction event as I already showed you.
I see you insert a story from the Bible to explain one of them. Why are you doing that and how far back are you willing to put the Noah story?

Fossils are preserved by being rapidly buried under massive weights of waterborne deposits of silt and mud. Attempting to separate past mass extinctions by flawed dating methods and assumptions still does not explain the sudden deaths and burials of large numbers of living creatures under massive floodwater deposits.

[Difflugia]

Fossils are preserved by being rapidly buried under massive weights of waterborne deposits of silt and mud.

Some are, but far from all of them. Here is a Wikipedia page listing a number of sites with dinosaur fossils and the varying conditions under which they were fossilized.

Attempting to separate past mass extinctions by flawed dating methods and assumptions still does not explain the sudden deaths and burials of large numbers of living creatures under massive floodwater deposits.

This simple statement has so much wrong with it.

First, what "flawed dating methods and assumptions" do you think are used to "separate past mass extinctions?" Without more detail, this is just a handwaving dismissal completely devoid of any real information. If you want this to be part of the debate, you'll have to expand on your claim a bit so we actually know what you're talking about and then support that claim with some sort of evidence.

Second, explaining the "sudden deaths and burials of large numbers of living creatures under massive floodwater deposits" has nothing to do with either "past mass extinctions" or "flawed dating methods and assumptions," making the overall statement a classic non sequitur. If you have in mind some connection that would actually make this statement logically valid, please expand on what you have here so that it might become relevant to the debate.

[marke]

Fossils are preserved by being rapidly buried under massive weights of waterborne deposits of silt and mud.

Some are, but far from all of them. Here is a Wikipedia page listing a number of sites with dinosaur fossils and the varying conditions under which they were fossilized.

I don't think Wikipedia is going to prove that large animals were fossilized under any conditions other than being rapidly buried under large deposits of deep water sediments.

https://www.digitalatlasofancientlife.o ... ilization/
Fossilization and the environment
The rapid burial of remains beneath a blanket of sediment is critical to the process of fossilization because burial separates the remains from the biological and physical processes that would otherwise destroy them.

Attempting to separate past mass extinctions by flawed dating methods and assumptions still does not explain the sudden deaths and burials of large numbers of living creatures under massive floodwater deposits.

This simple statement has so much wrong with it.

First, what "flawed dating methods and assumptions" do you think are used to "separate past mass extinctions?" Without more detail, this is just a handwaving dismissal completely devoid of any real information. If you want this to be part of the debate, you'll have to expand on your claim a bit so we actually know what you're talking about and then support that claim with some sort of evidence.

Many dating methods are as questionable today as they were 300 years ago. Here is a good analysis of just one problem with speculative and assumptive dating methods:

https://www.icr.org/article/deep-core-d ... -reasoning

Dating Rocks and Fossils: Circular Reasoning

Because secular scientists believe Earth’s sedimentary rocks were deposited over millions of years, they assume a given rock layer represents a “snapshot” of the history of life at a certain time in the “prehistoric” past. Since they also think some organisms lived only during certain periods of Earth history, they conclude that these fossils can be used to date different rock layers. For instance, suppose one particular organism has so far been found only in rocks thought to be between 200 and 180 million years old. If such an “index fossil” is found in a different rock of unknown age, secular scientists tend to assume that particular rock to also be between 200 and 180 million years old. In other words, the fossils found in rocks are used to date other rocks.

But how does one determine an age for the initial set of rocks? One might assume those ages are obtained either directly or indirectly from radioactive dating techniques. In theory, yes, but secular scientists have been known to reject such ages if they contradict the evolutionary story the scientists think the fossils are telling—even if the dates from multiple methods agree with one another.1

So in the final analysis, the fossils (i.e., the assumed evolutionary story) are used to date the rocks, and the rocks are used to date the fossils (Figure 1). This kind of circular reasoning is also present in the dating of ice cores and seafloor sediments.

Second, explaining the "sudden deaths and burials of large numbers of living creatures under massive floodwater deposits" has nothing to do with either "past mass extinctions" or "flawed dating methods and assumptions," making the overall statement a classic non sequitur. If you have in mind some connection that would actually make this statement logically valid, please expand on what you have here so that it might become relevant to the debate.

Massive extinction events evidence by widespread fields of fossils testify of massive flooding and burial of lar4ge numbers of animals in flood deposits.