The Qu'ran

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McCulloch
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The Qu'ran

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Post by McCulloch »

CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:quraan is written by allah but other books written by person so you have to read it to make sure
mar wrote:Well i am sure the quran is much unique from among all the other books. [...] the quran has never been changed. The quran was and is as god says himself in the quran that the quran is copyrighted. So there are millions of copys in the world in many translation--but all the same thing. Ones in english, urdu, arabic, chinese, brail... and so on. So which one shall you read? The one that says Quran or koran or coran on the cover. And as the biggining chapter introduces the author (god). You can order many free ones from islam tomorow, or even better go to your local mosque.[...]

So I went to the quran. I read it and I felt closer to god in my whole life. I actually cryed. And now i am closer to god then ever.
I have been invited to read the Qu'ran. It has been claimed that it has the answers to the questions, How can I know if God exists? and How can I know what God wants of me? It has been implied that the divine truth of the Quran is self-evident.

For Debate: If you have read the Qu'ran or part of it, is its divine origin self-evident? Does it make a convincing argument for the existence of God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #251

Post by micatala »

Moderator Warning
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: I know completly what I'am quoting, if you are not happpy with this commentry, I will post another, with same meaning and same translation:)
Fact is...you don't use quote marks, and you don't show references...you merely blend in your words with other peoples words.

This is called plagiarism, brother...and you have been called on it.

See that you don't do it again per the rules...

Firstly, you and True Religion are getting into too many personal tit for tat comments.

Secondly, leave it up to the moderators to enforce the rules.
" . . . the line separating good and evil passes, not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart . . . ." Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #252

Post by Apple Pie »

micatala wrote:Moderator Warning
Apple Pie wrote:
TrueReligion wrote: I know completly what I'am quoting, if you are not happpy with this commentry, I will post another, with same meaning and same translation:)
Fact is...you don't use quote marks, and you don't show references...you merely blend in your words with other peoples words.

This is called plagiarism, brother...and you have been called on it.

See that you don't do it again per the rules...


Firstly, you and True Religion are getting into too many personal tit for tat comments.

Secondly, leave it up to the moderators to enforce the rules.

See to it that you do not overlook brother TR's plagarisms...

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #253

Post by Goat »

TrueReligion wrote:
goat wrote:
Apple Pie wrote:
McCulloch wrote:
McCulloch wrote: I will select five random passages from the Qu'ran. At least one of them should be a direct copy from the Book of Revelation.
Apple Pie wrote:When can we expect your "five random passages", brother?

Do you need more time to hand pick these "random" passages...?
It took me a few minutes of my free time to write a random generator which took into account the two level structure. These are the passages:
  1. 10.103
  2. 43.8
  3. 72.27
  4. 77.27
  5. 109.5
If it is true that 75% of the Qu'ran was directly copied from the Book of Revelation, then one of these should be an direct copy.

ويل يومئذ للمكذبين ألم نجعل الأرض ك�اتا أحياء وأموتا وجعلنا �يها روسي شمخت وأسقينكم ماء �راتا ويل يومئذ للمكذبين

Waylun yawma-ithin lilmukaththibeena Alam najAAali al-arda kifatan Ahyaan waamwatan wajaAAalna feeha rawasiya shamikhatin waasqaynakum maan furatan waylun yawma-ithin lilmukaththibeena

Woe! Then on that day to the beliers. Did we not invoke the earth to come together? Alive and dead. And we made in it well set, high, and we provided you sweet water to drink. Woe! Then on that day to the beliers. (77.24 – 28)


Sura 77 brackets its Book of Revelation material with the phrase “waylun yawma-ithin lilmukaththibeena�…i.e. “Woe! Then on that day to the beliers�.

This trend is repeated over, and over, and over again in this chapter.

This, as previously mentioned in other posts, via the term “yawma-ithin�, refers to events of a specific day, ‘Judgment Day’, ‘Resurrection Day’. A day in which all people are gather together.

All events from the Biblical Book of Revelation.

This is the manner in which ‘The Collection’ purveys its copied material.
Uh.. No. It might have some concepts that were influenced by the bible, but that is not 'copying' the bible.

Can you show the passage in the bible with the same phrase, or close to it? What passage in the bible does it 'copy'? Having a concept that is similar is not copying the bible.. you need to have a sentence match. Please show the exact line in the bible this was copied from.
I think we need to show Apple_Pie an example of what is copying and same phrases.

e.g Isaiah-37 & 2 Kings 19 are totaly identical.

Isaiah 37
1And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the LORD.

2And he sent Eliakim, who was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests covered with sackcloth, unto Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.

3And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and of blasphemy: for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.

4It may be the LORD thy God will hear the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God, and will reprove the words which the LORD thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that is left.

5So the servants of king Hezekiah came to Isaiah.


2 Kings-19

2 Kings 19
1And it came to pass, when king Hezekiah heard it, that he rent his clothes, and covered himself with sackcloth, and went into the house of the LORD.

2And he sent Eliakim, which was over the household, and Shebna the scribe, and the elders of the priests, covered with sackcloth, to Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz.

3And they said unto him, Thus saith Hezekiah, This day is a day of trouble, and of rebuke, and blasphemy; for the children are come to the birth, and there is not strength to bring forth.

4It may be the LORD thy God will hear all the words of Rabshakeh, whom the king of Assyria his master hath sent to reproach the living God; and will reprove the words which the LORD thy God hath heard: wherefore lift up thy prayer for the remnant that are left.

5So the servants of king Hezekiah came to Isaiah.


These both books are attributed to different authors, so who is copying from whom? This is what is called and in real term PLAGIARISM
Well, it isn't plagerism since both works are totally unattributed to anybody.

However, they did lift the phrase nearly intact.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #254

Post by muhammad rasullah »

There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible. If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.
The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.

The bible contains stories of:
Lot committing incest with his daughters.
Solomon worshipping and idol.
Samson sleeps with a whore.

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem \"In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful\"

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #255

Post by Goat »

muhammad rasullah wrote:There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible. If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.
The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.

The bible contains stories of:
Lot committing incest with his daughters.
Solomon worshipping and idol.
Samson sleeps with a whore.

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.

Well , no, they were not prophets.. since they did not give the word of god out. Solomon was a king.. samson was a warrior, and Lot was supposedly drunk ...but not a prophet.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #256

Post by Apple Pie »

muhammad rasullah wrote:There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible.

There are many verses, brother....not just one...

>75% of the Koran was composed from the Biblical Book of Revelation alone....read the thread, brother...


If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.


Done.

Read through this thread before making statements that you cannot refute...


The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.


The Holy Bible is required to correct & clarify the Koran in all manner of things.

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.
Then your book of faith is incomplete.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #257

Post by muhammad rasullah »

goat wrote:
muhammad rasullah wrote:There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible. If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.
The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.

The bible contains stories of:
Lot committing incest with his daughters.
Solomon worshipping and idol.
Samson sleeps with a whore.

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.

Well , no, they were not prophets.. since they did not give the word of god out. Solomon was a king.. samson was a warrior, and Lot was supposedly drunk ...but not a prophet.
Well it's quite difficult to accept from an Athesit that these three men were not prophets. If you ask any christian I'm sure they would say that they were. Lot did deliver the message to the people read genesis
Bismillahir rahmaanir Raheem \"In The Name of Allah, the most gracious, the most merciful\"

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #258

Post by Goat »

muhammad rasullah wrote:
goat wrote:
muhammad rasullah wrote:There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible. If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.
The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.

The bible contains stories of:
Lot committing incest with his daughters.
Solomon worshipping and idol.
Samson sleeps with a whore.

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.

Well , no, they were not prophets.. since they did not give the word of god out. Solomon was a king.. samson was a warrior, and Lot was supposedly drunk ...but not a prophet.
Well it's quite difficult to accept from an Athesit that these three men were not prophets. If you ask any christian I'm sure they would say that they were. Lot did deliver the message to the people read genesis
ANd in what way where these men prophets? None of their writings are in the prophets, they are not listed in the bible or in the talmud as prophets. They are not
bringing a message from God, according to the bible. Just because someone is mentioned in the bible as a protagonist in a story doesn't mean they are a prophet.

Maybe the concept of the Islamic prophet is different that everyone elses.
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #259

Post by TrueReligion »

goat wrote:
muhammad rasullah wrote:
goat wrote:
muhammad rasullah wrote:There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible. If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.
The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.

The bible contains stories of:
Lot committing incest with his daughters.
Solomon worshipping and idol.
Samson sleeps with a whore.

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.

Well , no, they were not prophets.. since they did not give the word of god out. Solomon was a king.. samson was a warrior, and Lot was supposedly drunk ...but not a prophet.
Well it's quite difficult to accept from an Athesit that these three men were not prophets. If you ask any christian I'm sure they would say that they were. Lot did deliver the message to the people read genesis
ANd in what way where these men prophets? None of their writings are in the prophets, they are not listed in the bible or in the talmud as prophets. They are not
bringing a message from God, according to the bible. Just because someone is mentioned in the bible as a protagonist in a story doesn't mean they are a prophet.

Maybe the concept of the Islamic prophet is different that everyone elses.
I think Goat, your remarks here are not correct, you are relying only Bible as your source, remember, there are 3 valid scriptures, that you have to look before making claim.
Torah\Bible\Quran

Now nowhere in religious definition or history it says that if no book was revealed to any person, he is not a prophet.
Furthe Bible didnt give account to all the prophets, and Prophet itself means who deliver word of God, and all these men deliver word of God, and choosen by God, as its also mention in Quran.

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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #260

Post by TrueReligion »

Apple Pie wrote:
muhammad rasullah wrote:There is no verse in the Quran which is copied from the Bible.

There are many verses, brother....not just one...

>75% of the Koran was composed from the Biblical Book of Revelation alone....read the thread, brother...

In Thread its proven that your claim is wrong, and is testified by other members as well. So Quran is not copied from Bible, infact Bible is copied from Jewish Scripture, which I showed already
If someone says that certain verses from the Quran were influenced by the bible then please show how specifically.


Done.

Read through this thread before making statements that you cannot refute...

Again, your claims and all your posts were false, and proven already in this post. You could;nt provide any valid proof, therefore all your statements are wrong and not acceptable by any means,
The Quran corrects the things which are wrong in the Bible and sets things aright.


The Holy Bible is required to correct & clarify the Koran in all manner of things.

Bible itself is full of errors, and contradictions, and its proven and admitted already by many christian scholars and sects, including JW's.. If any1 wants more, can refer to my post "50,000 errors in Bible"
So its true that Quran corrected the wrong human made concepts given in Bible

All of this done by prophets of God. Men who are the most upright amongst the people during their time. Men who are supposed to instruct an be an example of righteousness to the believers. Men who are guided and inspired by God/Allah. The Quran mentions none of these things.
Then your book of faith is incomplete.
Bible is stil keep on changing , and always new versions are out in the market, whereas Quran have ONLY 1 VERSION. this certify that Quran is complete, and perfect book of faith

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