Logical Contradiction in the Bible?

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Logical Contradiction in the Bible?

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Post by POI »

Hebrews 9:22 (New Revised Standard Version)

22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Vs:

Leviticus 5:11-13 (New Revised Standard Version)

11 But if you cannot afford two turtle-doves or two pigeons, you shall bring as your offering for the sin that you have committed one-tenth of an ephah of choice flour for a sin-offering; you shall not put oil on it or lay frankincense on it, for it is a sin-offering. 12 You shall bring it to the priest, and the priest shall scoop up a handful of it as its memorial portion, and turn this into smoke on the altar, with the offerings by fire to the Lord; it is a sin-offering. 13 Thus the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for whichever of these sins you have committed, and you shall be forgiven. Like the grain-offering, the rest shall be for the priest.

***************************

In essence, Hebrews asserts there can be no forgiveness without the shedding of blood. However, in Leviticus, forgiveness is offered without the shedding of blood?

For debate: Is there a logical way to reconcile or harmonize these two passages with one another without turning into a pretzel?

Further, while they were alive, didn't both Jesus and John the Baptist offer forgiveness of sin as well, without the shedding of blood? Or how about in 2 Samuel 12, where David is forgiven without the shedding of blood?
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Re: Logical Contradiction in the Bible?

Post #221

Post by POI »

Capbook wrote: Mon Sep 29, 2025 2:26 am do one can also be purified or cleansed without receiving forgiveness?
Your question is irrelevant as Leviticus 5:11-13 speaks about (sin forgiveness), not (sin purification/cleansing). And according to Hebrews 9:22, no sin is forgiven without bloodshed. And yet, Leviticus 5:11-13 tells readers of a way sin is forgiven without bloodshed, which IS a presented contradiction. This is not my opinion. This is fact.

Thanks for continuing to try and throw off the scent, using further apologetics spin.
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Re: Logical Contradiction in the Bible?

Post #222

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Capbook in post #220]

I'm not denying anything. I'm acknowledging that whatever 1% is being purified without blood in clause 1 is not the 0% remission without blood in clause 2.
That's just what I need, the acknowledgment that there's still a way of being cleansed/purified/forgiven without bloodshed in Hebrews 9:22.
That's just what you imagine. The 0% remission in clause 2 leaves no room for any remission which might be resourcefully wrung out of clause 1. Leviticus 5 and Hebrews 9:22 clause 2 are in conflict.
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Re: Logical Contradiction in the Bible?

Post #223

Post by Capbook »

POI wrote: Mon Sep 29, 2025 10:21 am
Capbook wrote: Mon Sep 29, 2025 2:26 am do one can also be purified or cleansed without receiving forgiveness?
Your question is irrelevant as Leviticus 5:11-13 speaks about (sin forgiveness), not (sin purification/cleansing). And according to Hebrews 9:22, no sin is forgiven without bloodshed. And yet, Leviticus 5:11-13 tells readers of a way sin is forgiven without bloodshed, which IS a presented contradiction. This is not my opinion. This is fact.

Thanks for continuing to try and throw off the scent, using further apologetics spin.
I just follow your line of argument, as there is no mention of "but or exception" there is also no mention of "contradiction" in those verses.
The fact also is, "almost everything" is not "everything."
As to we used before in mathematical idea, the 99% is not the 100%, though both required bloodshed.
And the always sidestepped question which is very relevant clarification from your relevant statement was never addressed.
Maybe, this time, do one can be cleansed or purified without receiving forgiveness? Just simple yes or no.
Then I'll put my argument to rest.

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Re: Logical Contradiction in the Bible?

Post #224

Post by POI »

Capbook wrote: Tue Sep 30, 2025 3:23 am I just follow your line of argument, as there is no mention of "but or exception" there is also no mention of "contradiction" in those verses.
You are applying a false analogy here. The conflict is between the second clause of a verse in Hebrews, against another verse in Leviticus, which explains sin forgiveness without bloodshed. They clearly conflict with one another, as explained repeatedly ad nauseum.
Capbook wrote: Tue Sep 30, 2025 3:23 am The fact also is, "almost everything" is not "everything."
As to we used before in mathematical idea, the 99% is not the 100%, though both required bloodshed.
And the always sidestepped question which is very relevant clarification from your relevant statement was never addressed.
Maybe, this time, do one can be cleansed or purified without receiving forgiveness? Just simple yes or no.
Then I'll put my argument to rest.
Per Hebrews 9, 100% of sin forgiveness requires bloodshed. This is why there is a conflict, when compared to the assertion made in Leviticus 5. No number of tantrums, on your part, is going to change the fact that a contradiction clearly exists.

Thanks
In case anyone is wondering... The avatar quote states the following:

"I asked God for a bike, but I know God doesn't work that way. So I stole a bike and asked for forgiveness."

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