How can the univese exist without God to create it?

[EarthScienceguy]

Explain the existence of the universe without God to create it.
In other words, how can the universe be shown to come into existence empirically without God to create it?

The basic building block of the universe is energy. We do not even know what energy in its most basic form is.

There is a fact, or if you wish, a law, governing all natural phenomena that are known to date. There is no known exception to this law – it is exact so far as we know. The law is called the conservation of energy. It states that there is a certain quantity, which we call energy, that does not change in manifold changes which nature undergoes. That is a most abstract idea, because it is a mathematical principle; it says that there is a numerical quantity which does not change when something happens. It is not a description of a mechanism, or anything concrete; it is just a strange fact that we can calculate some number and when we finish watching nature go through her tricks and calculate the number again, it is the same.

— The Feynman Lectures on Physics

[William]

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #199]

As I have pointed out, if we are to accept that things are really not things, (because you argued "Everything in this universe is made of energy. Energy is nothing." and that the god that created a nothing "energy" is also made on nothing, we have to be able to explain how this happened.

If there were a process, then creation would not be ex nilio. So what are you asking?

I am asking for you to explain the process. "Creation" implies process. So yes, process does imply that creation is not ex nihilo

An example I gave re process is the idea that creation was spoken into existence and I gave some details to how evidence supports this idea.

Yea, wow, sound had nothing to do with the formation of the universe.

So you do not agree with the mythologies which carry the idea of creation being voiced into existence?

The first thing God created was the heavens and the earth. "Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters" verse 2. Yes the void that God made when He made the heavens and the Earth.

Q: What was the first thing God created?

AI Overview
According to the Book of Genesis account, the first thing God created was light. In the beginning, God said, "Let there be light,"

Q: How did God create the first thing God created?

AI Overview
Accounts of creation - Creation - GCSE Religious Studies ...
According to the Book of Genesis, God created the first thing, light, by speaking it into existence, which marked the beginning of the first day of creation.

Thus the process herein is that the Void (darkness) already existed and if we consider the idea that God = light, the process tells us that The Creator placed itself - as light - into the void that already existed and from thereon in, created "heaven and earth" by continuing with said process within said void of darkness.

If you insist on arguing for an immaterial "God" you will have to explain how an immaterial non-thing can create material things.

What is the point of this question?

It is not a question, but a statement re what you will have to do.

God created the material matter the same way a painter creates a great work of art that has never existed before.

Yes! The paint and canvas is the void of darkness and what is created by the artist is up to the artists imagination and purpose re creating art....

Or an invent creates something that has never existed before.

Same principle. The dark gives the raw material and the light shapes that material through the voicing of the artist...

God created the medium and began to paint.

THe medium is darkness. Explain how God created the darkness.

Creation was ex nilo so again it was made out of nothing.

Repeating that doesn't make it so. Explain the process of an artist who creates - not from raw materials, but from no materials whatsoever, and your ex nihilo might grow legs. For now though, it is a bad theory.

He created space and the quantum field that has to exist within space.

It is unknown that God created the void which is the space and the QF. BY all accounts the dark was utilized for the purpose of voicing which in turn shaped (created) things. Even so, to claim the void was created from "nothing" requires explanation re process.

I Am a mind having an experience as a human being, on a planet in a universe. Do you understand your "self "in the same way, or in some other way?

This is outside the OP. Which always ends up in a long rabbit trail.

Long or not, it has to be explained too. You claimed that you were created by God, so what is this "you" you are referring to - exactly? What is this "you" that God created?

You have not answered how a quantum field can exist without space.

Correct. What I have done is to defer to your argument about that for the time being, while we sort out the particulars of your claims.

At this stage the QF = The Void of Darkness and thus God placed Something of (its) self into that space (as light) in order to get creative through voicing things into existence within said Dark Space.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to William in post #201]

According to the Book of Genesis account, the first thing God created was light. In the beginning, God said, "Let there be light,"

Incorrect, read Genesis or even just what I wrote. I will narrow it down for you, verse 2. The heavens and the earth were already created before light.

Repeating that doesn't make it so. Explain the process of an artist who creates - not from raw materials, but from no materials whatsoever, and your ex nihilo might grow legs. For now though, it is a bad theory.

I did. Look again, I am not repeating myself anymore.

It is unknown that God created the void which is the space and the QF. BY all accounts the dark was utilized for the purpose of voicing which in turn shaped (created) things. Even so, to claim the void was created from "nothing" requires explanation re process.

Go read the Standard Model of particle theory, then you will know.

Long or not, it has to be explained too. You claimed that God created you, so what is this "you" you are referring to - exactly? What is this "you" that God created?

I am not discussing that here. If you'd like to discuss that, please start your own thread. I am not intending to defend my beliefs here. The OP is about how the universe was created without a creator God. If you would like to discuss that, go right ahead. Up to this point, you have not.

[William]

[Replying to EarthScienceguy in post #202]

According to the Book of Genesis account, the first thing God created was light. In the beginning, God said, "Let there be light,"

Incorrect, read Genesis or even just what I wrote. I will narrow it down for you, verse 2. The heavens and the earth were already created before light.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Which did God create first. The heaven or the earth?

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

Can we assume from this that the heaven was not as the earth was? If so, Then the heaven was not without form and void and there was no darkness on the face of the heaven.
Thus if the heaven was created before the earth, and there was light in the heaven then light would have been created before the earth.
Then we can move to

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Can we assume that this is specific to the earth? If so, then

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

is specific to light first appearing on the earth. Not that it was specific to the earth being created before light was created. This appears to be so because the next line is:

And God saw the light, that it was good:

This does not infer that until that moment God had never seen light. More likely it is reference to what the light revealed about the earth, that was "good".

and God divided the light from the darkness.

How was this achieved. We can see by the evidence that in order to do this, God had to have made the earth spherical, which is just as well, because everything else to do with planets and light sources in this local, is also spherical.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

Because God could, because the earth was spherical.

And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Coincidence? I think not.

Explain the process of an artist who creates - not from raw materials, but from no materials whatsoever, and your ex nihilo might grow legs. For now though, it is a bad theory.

I did. Look again, I am not repeating myself anymore.

I do not think you did at all. The truth is, no person who believes in ex nihilo I have ever asked has ever provided an explanation.
However, I may have missed it, but just to make sure, please give the number of the post that you did this in, and I will take another look.
Otherwise, no. I am not going to just accept your word for it.

Even so, to claim the void was created from "nothing" requires explanation re process.

Go read the Standard Model of particle theory, then you will know.

I will do no such thing. It is your claim, so it is you who has to bring the evidence you claim explains how God creates things from non-things. I would even hazard a guess that "Standard Model of particle theory" doesn't even mention God, so it is up to you to join the dots by explaining any correlation, not up to me to go fetch.

Long or not, it has to be explained too. You claimed that God created you, so what is this "you" you are referring to - exactly? What is this "you" that God created?

I am not discussing that here.

Fair enough. I will count your comments about being created and being a free will agent as having no relevance here.

I am not intending to defend my beliefs here.

That much seems a tad obvious in the way you consistently reply when asked for evidence explaining your beliefs.

However, this is a debating forum, so it is still expected of those who make belief-based claims to provide evidence supporting those claims.

The OP is about how the universe was created without a creator God. If you would like to discuss that, go right ahead. Up to this point, you have not.

While I do not doubt that we exist within a creation/created thing, I am at liberty to question the declarations of belief that you have voiced in this thread.
However, I won't if you don't.

If the thread truly is about how the universe was created without a creator God, then there is no reason why you should be arguing in the thread that it wasn't, if indeed you are a person of integrity who shuns the temptation of double standards.