Is Judaism Racist?

[earendil]

The OT says no such thing or anything like it. In Jewish tradition, the standards are higher for Jews than for non-Jews. We have 613 commandments; you guys have seven. If it turns out that we ARE talking about who gets into Heaven, Gentiles will have an easier time of it than we will. We don't get preferred seating.

The standards are higher for jews? How can you write this and not realize the intrinsic racism you are promoting?

In all the religions in the world, only in judaism can you be born so. If that is not racism, then what is?

Don't even bother to respond, because you will only make excuses.....and if you don't see the intrinsic racism of your above comments, then you are sick beyond repair.

Sorry..I don't mean to be rude...but sometimes hard situations require hard words.

[McCulloch]

If someone made the accusation that atheism promotes the suppression of critical thought, would it make sense to debate that question?

Maybe; but hopefully.not for long. Nonsense doesn't deserve much attention.

Sure, why not?

If it can be shown that various branches of Christianity or Islam are indeed racist, that would have no impact on the question being debated here.

Of course it does. It calls into question why Judaism is being singled out for criticism when there are other religions much more culpable and much more obviously so.

It then raises the additional question of why the question was raised, but it has no bearing on the actual answer to the question. Whatever the outcome of the debate on Judaism [and for the record, I am convinced that Judaism is not racist], I would be ready to then move on and debate to what degree other religions may be racist.

The biggest moral difference I can see between those practices and Jewish ones is that not only do Jews not require non-Jews to, for instance, keep the Kosher laws - we don't say that those who don't follow our practices are going to Hell, as other religions do.

Perspective is everything. Some religions teach that God has the same requirements for all, regardless of ethnicity, culture and even religious background. Others, teach that God pays different attention and has different sets of rules for various groups. That could look like a kind of elitism.

Except that Jews teach that we have chosen those different rules for ourselves. Torah is a covenant, not a set of rules unilaterally imposed by God. According to our tradition, the Jewish people collectively chose to enter this covenant; that choice is symbolized by the Sinai story. It is made very clear to potential converts that one is choosing to enter that agreement by becoming a Jew.

Thank you for that. This is the bit that Christians and those of us who might be described as post-Christian have a problem understanding. To us, God is said to have set out a set of rules and teachings. We have difficulty understanding the idea that God could say to one group of people, worship on the Sabbath and don't eat pork and to another group, eat anything but divorce is forbidden. You have to admit, that our confusion is understandable. The wording of the stories, does seem to indicate that God made the rules rather than the having the rules selected and chosen by a community of people.

[JoeyKnothead]

Except that Jews teach that we have chosen those different rules for ourselves. Torah is a covenant, not a set of rules unilaterally imposed by God. According to our tradition, the Jewish people collectively chose to enter this covenant; that choice is symbolized by the Sinai story. It is made very clear to potential converts that one is choosing to enter that agreement by becoming a Jew.

I gotta admit, until recently I also thought it went "The Jews are God's chosen people", rather than "The Jews 'chose' God".
I just wanted to point that out because at least where I'm from there is a misconception about this whole deal. For me, it is a great concept. I see it as someone committing to God on principle, rather than (to me) irrationally assumed reasons.

[earendil]

Listen up norman...

I copied this from wikepedia:

A Jew (Hebrew: יְהוּדִי‎, Yehudi (sl.); יְהוּדִי�, Yehudim (pl.); Ladino: ג׳ודיו, Djudio (sl.); ג׳ודיוס, Djudios (pl.); Yiddish: ייִד, Yid (sl.); ייִדן, Yidn (pl.))[10] is a member of the Jewish people, an ethnoreligious group originating from the Israelites or Hebrews of the ancient Middle East. The Jewish people and the religion of Judaism are strongly interrelated, and converts to Judaism have been absorbed into the Jewish community throughout the millennia.

Now read this and figure it out.

Now if you have any fortitude, you will confess that I was right all along.....

We shall see.

Can you show me where this proves you are right?

I looked at the entire article. It was quite long. I read it all.

The words "race" and "racial" do not appear in it at all. Not once.

I actually expected this reply....nonetheless:

From the free dictionary online:

race 1 (rs)
n.
1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
3. A genealogical line; a lineage.

Now I repeat this part from Wikipedia:

originating from the Israelites or Hebrews of the ancient Middle East

I already modified my initial statement to reflect that the jews only originated from a race, which you then made the claim that it was never the case. Your statement is directly contadicted by the above sources (which are unbiased unlike the ones you provided)

However, given all of this. I think what we have here is simply a matter of defining terms. So I will adjust my initial statement to be more cooperative.

I abhore the ethno-centric bias of Judaism.

If you meant meaning (2) all along, why didn't you just say so? It's a misuse of the term "race," but if that's what you meant, I'm OK with it as far as the distant origins of the Jewish people are concerned.

My only complaints would be, did you not realize how offensive and inflammatory the use of the term would be to a Jew? And now that you do, why do you mock me about my concern below?

One more thing; Do you not acknowledge the historical opposition of Jews to racism and discrimination of any kind, even where Jews are not its victims? How does that square with your bizarre allegations?

Note to moderators:

I'm sorry I got away from the OT, but I am bound by principle to contest evil whenever and whereever it rears its ugly head.

Note to moderators; Please take notice of the mean-spirited mocking of a genuine and legitimate concern here.

What are you babbling about?

You wrote that by responding to my posts you were "opposing evil". This obviously implied that I was evil. Therefore you were calling me evil.

Note to moderators; Please take notice of the mean-spirited ad hominem.

Now I thought about the insult for a while and how I should respond.

I understood your idea of fighting evil and I realized that in my exposing the racism inherent in Judaism, I too was opposing evil. So it was not "mocking" but seriously what I think (though I would have never stated in that fashion if you had not already been uncivil.)

[earendil]

The accusation had been made that Judaism is racist, therefore debating that question makes sense.

............................

If it can be shown that various branches of Christianity or Islam are indeed racist, that would have no impact on the question being debated here.

Of course it does. It calls into question why Judaism is being singled out for criticism when there are other religions much more culpable and much more obviously so.

No, McCulloch was exactly correct. We were not discussing the other religions and there is no logical connection between them and the claim made in this thread.

And what is this "singled out"??????? Christianity is being constantly slammed in this forum or did you notice? I then make one complaint about judaism and you act like its world war III.

The biggest moral difference I can see between those practices and Jewish ones is that not only do Jews not require non-Jews to, for instance, keep the Kosher laws - we don't say that those who don't follow our practices are going to Hell, as other religions do.

Perspective is everything. Some religions teach that God has the same requirements for all, regardless of ethnicity, culture and even religious background. Others, teach that God pays different attention and has different sets of rules for various groups. That could look like a kind of elitism.

Except that Jews teach that we have chosen those different rules for ourselves. Torah is a covenant, not a set of rules unilaterally imposed by God. According to our tradition, the Jewish people collectively chose to enter this covenant; that choice is symbolized by the Sinai story. It is made very clear to potential converts that one is choosing to enter that agreement by becoming a Jew.

It has therefore become a commonplace among Jews to say that Jews are not "the Chosen People," but "the Choosing people."

Have you ever read the OT???? I have, and if you wish I can point you to at least 10 places where it claims that Jews were the people chosen by God.

Are Roman Catholic monks and nuns "elitist" in choosing to live by a different standard? Are the Boy Scouts "elitist" because they have a Code?

But they weren't born that way...that is they did not become the elite by merely being born.

It's worth noting, too, that Judaism does not teach that there is any special reward for abiding by differing sets of rules.

Irrelevant.

Is trying to be good for its own sake "elitist"?

Misdirection noted.

All this aside....we may have both missed a point. I think we may be talking about Judaism in too broad of terms....after all there are a lot of different sects. You are replying to me as if you are the sole representative of all of Judaism. That could hardly be correct. And my claim may be too broad as it may cover some reformed sect of which it may not accurately apply (but it would be reformed beyond any that I have experienced).

So yes...I would still say that Judaism is ethnocentrically biased.

I will tell you a story.

For several years I was studying to convert to Judaism as I was so fond of the people and the culture. I was even studying hebrew. One day, though, it just hit me like a brick....the above claim....and I realized that despite my desire, it would be irresponsible for me to convert and add my support to this ethnocentric religion.

I still have a high regard for much of the jewish teachings and philosophy, but the ethnocentricity is intrinsic and cannot be avoided.

[cnorman18]

What are you babbling about?

You wrote that by responding to my posts you were "opposing evil". This obviously implied that I was evil. Therefore you were calling me evil.

Wrong. I was clearly talking, not about you personally, but about your contentions that (1) Jews are a "race" and (2) that Jews are racists.

Both of those contentions have inexorably led to very great evil indeed in the past. I make no apology for opposing them.

I also made all that clear in my posts, and if you want to claim personal offense several days after the fact, that doesn't affect the clear meaning of the posts in this thread. The record is there.

Note to moderators; Please take notice of the mean-spirited ad hominem.

Now I thought about the insult for a while and how I should respond.

I understood your idea of fighting evil and I realized that in my exposing the racism inherent in Judaism...

And here you repeat the falsehood. How about "alleging" instead of "exposing"? See below.

....I too was opposing evil. So it was not "mocking" but seriously what I think (though I would have never stated in that fashion if you had not already been uncivil.)

You charge ME with being "uncivil"?

Let's take a look at your first post to this thread:

Don't even bother to respond, because you will only make excuses.....and if you don't see the intrinsic racism of your above comments, then you are sick beyond repair.

Shall we talk about "insults" and being "uncivil" now?

I was willing to let this subject drop, but if you want to continue, let's do that. Here are some questions of mine that you have not answered:

....did you not realize how offensive and inflammatory the use of the term ["race"] would be to a Jew?

Let's deal with that one first. Have you never read of this before? Did you not know that Jews consider the term "the Jewish race" offensive and disgusting?

You said the sources I posted, that showed that there is no Jewish "race," were "biased." Can we examine that allegation? Why were they "biased"? Are the facts about the multiethnic nature of the Jewish people not facts? Is the fact that Jews have always accepted converts, like myself, from Sinai onward, not relevant? Are the Jews not to be allowed to define themselves as a people? Do Jews routinely lie about such things? Please back up your charge of "bias."

And now that you do, why do you mock me about my concern below?

Let's be clear here too. You yourself commented on my use of the term "Nazi," and you therefore understood my concern here. I even clarified the fact, obvious from the beginning, that I was not applying that term to you, and that the evil I was opposing lay precisely there; it has been the Nazis, and virtually no one else, who have promoted the idea of the Jewish "race" - and still, you mocked my concern. That was your obvious intent, and your backpedaling and denying it now is both disingenuous and unconvincing.

And what makes it unconvincing? This: Your studied refusal to respond to these repeated questions:

One more thing; Do you not acknowledge the historical opposition of Jews to racism and discrimination of any kind, even where Jews are not its victims? How does that square with your bizarre allegations?

You have not posted one syllable of comment about these facts. Do you deny them, or discount them?

Let me add one more; in the face of militant Islamism, fundamentalist Christianity, resurgent antisemitism in Europe, and South America, blatant, Nazi-style antisemitiam in the Arab world, and above all racial and religious genocide in the Balkans, Asia and Africa - and in light of the active and adamant opposition of Jews to bigotry, racism, and genocide in all those areas, and their not infrequently being the victims of them - why do you have such an intense desire to smear Jews as "racists"?

We have historically been racism's most consistent victims and its most vehement opponents. We founded the ADL to defend ALL races and creeds, marched with Dr. King, and financed the NAACP. What is your reason for trying to subject my people to this contemptible falsehood?

Can you explain that?

Hint: "Because it's true" is not an adequate answer. It is merely a repetition of the lie.

[cnorman18]

The accusation had been made that Judaism is racist, therefore debating that question makes sense.

............................

If it can be shown that various branches of Christianity or Islam are indeed racist, that would have no impact on the question being debated here.

Of course it does. It calls into question why Judaism is being singled out for criticism when there are other religions much more culpable and much more obviously so.

No, McCulloch was exactly correct. We were not discussing the other religions and there is no logical connection between them and the claim made in this thread.

I'll stand my what I said. When you are surrounded by the egregiously guilty, it's a little peculiar to focus on the innocent.

And what is this "singled out"???????

You are inarguably singling Judaism out. You are continuing to do so. You are not responding to counterarguments. Nu?

Christianity is being constantly slammed in this forum or did you notice? I then make one complaint about judaism and you act like its world war III.

I'm more interested in your continuing to attack Judaism without responding to a single counterargument, but merely repeating your charges.

Interesting bit of overstatement there, too. I am not supposed to respond to an attack on my people? When I do, it's somehow "world war III"?

The biggest moral difference I can see between those practices and Jewish ones is that not only do Jews not require non-Jews to, for instance, keep the Kosher laws - we don't say that those who don't follow our practices are going to Hell, as other religions do.

Perspective is everything. Some religions teach that God has the same requirements for all, regardless of ethnicity, culture and even religious background. Others, teach that God pays different attention and has different sets of rules for various groups. That could look like a kind of elitism.

Except that Jews teach that we have chosen those different rules for ourselves. Torah is a covenant, not a set of rules unilaterally imposed by God. According to our tradition, the Jewish people collectively chose to enter this covenant; that choice is symbolized by the Sinai story. It is made very clear to potential converts that one is choosing to enter that agreement by becoming a Jew.

It has therefore become a commonplace among Jews to say that Jews are not "the Chosen People," but "the Choosing people."

Have you ever read the OT???? I have, and if you wish I can point you to at least 10 places where it claims that Jews were the people chosen by God.

Why don't you do that? Here's the one that matters:

Exodus 19:5 "Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine;

6 and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel."   

7 So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him.

8 All the people answered together and said, "All that the LORD has spoken we will do." And Moses reported the words of the people to the LORD.

Notice the conditional clause: "IF you will obey...
THEN you will be..."

The people chose to enter the Covenant. This moment was the birth of the Jewish people, and it is so regarded in Jewish tradition.

You claim below to have studied Judaism - and you were never taught this principle?

For that matter, you were never taught that the Jewish people are not a a "race"?

Are Roman Catholic monks and nuns "elitist" in choosing to live by a different standard? Are the Boy Scouts "elitist" because they have a Code?

But they weren't born that way...that is they did not become the elite by merely being born.

Neither did I.

And I note the use of the condemnatory term "elite." If you had really studied Judaism, you'd know better than to use it.

It's worth noting, too, that Judaism does not teach that there is any special reward for abiding by differing sets of rules.

Irrelevant.

Oh? and why is that?

Doesn't racism imply some benefit for the favored "race"? If there is no favoring of that group, how is it "racism"?

Is trying to be good for its own sake "elitist"?

Misdirection noted.

How is that misdirection? It continues the remark about benefits.

All this aside....we may have both missed a point. I think we may be talking about Judaism in too broad of terms....after all there are a lot of different sects. You are replying to me as if you are the sole representative of all of Judaism. That could hardly be correct.

Nice try, but I have made it clear that I speak for myself hundreds of times. Sometimes I do claim to speak for all of Judaism, though, and frankly, on the subject of whether Jews are a "race" or racist, I think I can. All the branches of Judaism agree that we are not a "race." All the branches of Judaism oppose bigotry and prejudice in any form.

Do you deny these facts?

And my claim may be too broad as it may cover some reformed sect of which it may not accurately apply (but it would be reformed beyond any that I have experienced).

I have no idea what you're talking about.

So yes...I would still say that Judaism is ethnocentrically biased.

If only it were a single ethnicity....

How can a religion be biased against its own members, e.g. Chinese or Black or Arab Jews? If Judaism were "ethnocentrically biased", it would be biased against ME.

I will tell you a story.

For several years I was studying to convert to Judaism as I was so fond of the people and the culture. I was even studying hebrew. One day, though, it just hit me like a brick....the above claim....and I realized that despite my desire, it would be irresponsible for me to convert and add my support to this ethnocentric religion.

I still have a high regard for much of the jewish teachings and philosophy, but the ethnocentricity is intrinsic and cannot be avoided.

You claim to have studied Judaism "for several years." And somehow you are totally unaware of some of its most basic principles and teachings.

It also strikes me that this idea of the "ethnocentric bias" of Judaism is not the sort of thing that would occur to a person only after several years of study. On the contrary: it's the sort of misperception and prejudice that occurs to one who is IGNORANT of Judaism, and that actual STUDY would quickly dispel. Anyone who has actually studied Judaism would see this instantly.

I also note the strange fact that you never mentioned these years of study at the beginning of this conversation, and that you have never - not once -demonstrated any hint of familiarity with Jewish teaching or traditions or philosophy, even though you claim to value them.

Especially the traditions and teachings that run directly counter to everything you have been saying here.

To be honest, your story here strikes me as, to be civil and polite, astonishingly, incredibly, and laughably unlikely.

Perhaps you'd care to prove it?

If you've studied Judaism for "several years," these questions will be easy, elementary, five minutes' work.

Google all you want - I used nonstandard spellings.

Let's see what you've got.

What does Berei'sheet mean? Bammidbar? Where would I find them?

What is Hattafat dam Breet? What is its significance?

What is Berrakhah? When is it used?

What is Tikhun Olahm? How important is it?

What does Hakkadosh Barreuk Hoo mean?

What ritual during the Passover Seder proves that Jews are not only concerned with the welfare of Jews?

What is Meekhvah? What is it for? Who uses it and when?

What is Sookhah? When is it used? What do you do with it?

What are Zeetzeet? When are they cut off?

What is Seemkat Torah?

What does Gehr Zeddeck mean? Have there ever been any?

What is the difference between Kahdeesh, Kihdush, and Kahdosh?

You studied Judaism for several years?

Prove it. This should be EASY.

[JoeyKnothead]

Where is the evidence?

As cnorman18 has offered plenty to support his position, I see no evidence to support the opponent's.

[earendil]

Prove it. This should be EASY.

Yes, though I am not sure what it proves:

What does Berei'sheet mean? Bammidbar? Where would I find them?

In the beginning....in the wilderness.....in the Torah

What is Hattafat dam Breet? What is its significance?

circumcision cerimony for those already circumcised

What is Berrakhah? When is it used?

a blessing...to acknowledge God

What is Tikhun Olahm? How important is it?

repairing the world .....included in the aleinu (3 times daily)

What does Hakkadosh Barreuk Hoo mean?

The Holy One, Blessed Is He

What ritual during the Passover Seder proves that Jews are not only concerned with the welfare of Jews?

There are many rituals , but I do not remember one with this purpose.

What is Meekhvah? What is it for? Who uses it and when?

ritual bath (used in conversion and other special purifications)

What is Sookhah? When is it used? What do you do with it?

a hut of sorts to be dwelt in during sukkot

What are Zeetzeet? When are they cut off?

strings representing laws which must be obeyed (I forgot the number)
?never cut as far as I know.

What is Seemkat Torah?

Rejoicing in the torah

What does Gehr Zeddeck mean? Have there ever been any?

true convert (yes)

What is the difference between Kahdeesh, Kihdush, and Kahdosh?

for mourning ,for sanctification, holy

[cnorman18]

Prove it. This should be EASY.

Yes, though I am not sure what it proves:

That will soon become clear to everyone.

What does Berei'sheet mean? Bammidbar? Where would I find them?

In the beginning....in the wilderness.....in the Torah

Bere'sheet does indeed mean "in the beginning," and Bamidbar does indeed mean "in the wilderness."

It seems odd, though, that you did not mention the fact that they are the Hebrew names of the books of Genesis and Numbers, which is their primary significance in Judaism.

If that had been the only bizarre omission here, it might have been insignificant. As it stands, it's the beginning of an obvious pattern.

What is Hattafat dam Breet? What is its significance?

circumcision cerimony for those already circumcised

Correct, if a bit thin. I note that you do not explain how that could work or why the ceremony is so named.

What is Berrakhah? When is it used?

a blessing...to acknowledge God

Ditto. Again I note the missing information; you do not explain when berakhot are used or give any examples.

Here's another hint; when you're trying to prove you know something, prove you know something.

What is Tikhun Olahm? How important is it?

repairing the world .....included in the aleinu (3 times daily)

Another curious omission. The fact that the phrase tikkun olam (or a variation of it) appears in the Aleinu prayer hardly covers its true importance.

In Jewish tradition, "The Repair of the World" is the job of humans, not God, and it is the very point of human existence.

One who had studied Judaism "for several years" would not have omitted that all-important fact.

What does Hakkadosh Barreuk Hoo mean?

The Holy One, Blessed Is He

Correct again. This little quiz seemed easy, didn't it?

The next question was unique on this list, and considering the subject of our conversation, the most significant. Your answer is very revealing indeed.

What ritual during the Passover Seder proves that Jews are not only concerned with the welfare of Jews?

There are many rituals , but I do not remember one with this purpose.

Then you have never attended a Passover Seder. Not once.

During the recounting of the Passover story, when it comes time to tell about the Ten Plagues, ten drops of wine are slowly spilled from each person's cup, one at a time. This is done slowly and solemnly, as all present recite the names of the plagues in order:

"Dam." (Blood.)

"Tze'far'day'ah." (Frogs.)

"Kinim." (Lice.)

"Arov." (Wild beasts.)

"Dever." (Pestilence.)

"Sh'chin." (Boils.)

"Barad." (Hail.)

"Arbeh." (Locusts.)

"Choshech." (Darkness.)

"Makkat B'chorot." (Death of the firstborn.)

Wine is a symbol of rejoicing, and it is explicitly explained in the order of service that we do this to remind us that our joy should be tempered with sorrow for the sufferings of the Egyptians, and that one should not be glad at the death or downfall of anyone, not even an enemy.

If you don't remember this ceremony, there can only be one explanation; you have never seen it, and it is very, very hard to imagine a person studying for conversion "for several years" and never experiencing a Passover meal.

Nor have you ever studied the Jewish holidays in your "several years of study." The holidays are invariably one of the first topics covered, and Passover is covered first; and this ritual is an essential topic related to it.

The implications of all this are embarrassingly obvious. I would feel bad for you if you hadn't set yourself up for this.

What is Meekhvah? What is it for? Who uses it and when?

ritual bath (used in conversion and other special purifications)

Conversion is the lrarest use of a mikveh. Odd that you didn't mention the most frequent use of it; Orthodox women use it every month, seven days after their menses are completed. Men typically use it only before marriage.

What is Sookhah? When is it used? What do you do with it?

a hut of sorts to be dwelt in during sukkot

Uh, no. It is an open shelter in which one eats one's meals, and generally that only. The "Sukkot" part is correct, at least.

What are Zeetzeet? When are they cut off?

strings representing laws which must be obeyed (I forgot the number)
?never cut as far as I know.

Most illuminating. No mention of where these "strings" are found, and you can't remember the number.

I have never heard tzitzit referred to as "strings." They are often called "fringes," which is the literal translation of the Hebrew, but are more often called tassels in English.

They are found on the four corners of a male's tallis or prayer shawl, and they symbolically represent the number six hundred thirteen, the traditional number of commandments (small c) which Jews are obligated to keep.

One tassel is cut off when a Jew is buried, symbolic of the fact that he is no longer obligated to keep the commandments.

All that is about as basic as it gets.

You rather clearly knew none of that.... And you claim to have studied Judaism in preparation for conversion for several years.

What is Seemkat Torah?

Rejoicing in the torah

That's the literal translation.

What it IS is a Jewish holiday, which takes place shortly after Sukkot and Shmini Atzeret. It celebrates the end of the annual cycle of reading the Torah in services and the beginning of a new one. It is one of the most joyous of Jewish holidays and is the occasion of much merriment and celebration in the synagogue.

Again, there can be only one reason you didn't mention all this.

Don't even try to pretend you omitted all these things on purpose; trying to make a fool out of me by deliberately making yourself look like a fake and a liar is a dubious strategy at best. Simpler explanation is...

Well, I think everyone here has figured it out by now.

What does Gehr Zeddeck mean? Have there ever been any?

true convert (yes)

More accurately "righteous convert," but substantially orrect again.

What is the difference between Kahdeesh, Kihdush, and Kahdosh?

for mourning ,for sanctification, holy

And yet again, superficially kind-of correct, but with blatantly obvious, basic, and important information glaringly missing.

One of these is a prayer, the second is a ceremony, and the third is an adjective. Kaddish is the prayer for the dead; Kiddush is the ceremony of blessing wine and bread on the Sabbath followed by drinking and eating them; and Kadosh is indeed the Hebrew word for "Holy." Funny how you didn't bother to mention any of that, but only the bare meaning of the words, as before.

Sorry. Your hurried research was inadequate. These answers are obviously the result of that, not of actual knowledge obtained after extended study. The matter of the Passover Seder alone proves beyond doubt that you know little of Judaism and understand less.

There is nothing here that you could not get from a Hebrew-English dictionary.

Who do you think you're fooling?

Now that that is settled, perhaps you can answer the numerous points I have made and questions I have asked in my posts, and repeated in my last one.

[JoeyKnothead]

I found those words online. What they mean to Jews I have no clue.

Nor does your challenger seem to know.

How in heck can a religion that accepts anyone be considered racist?

"Religio-centric" I could understand; but even then we see Jewish organizations help other religions and other religion's people. Where is the racism? Where is the 'religio-centrism' for that matter?

"There's no there, there"