Is Suicide a sin?

[McCulloch]

In another thread:

Christians don't commit suicide?

Nope. It is a sin to kill oneself.

Is suicide in all circumstances a sin? What is suicide? Is passive suicide also a sin?

We have heard of "suicide by Cop" to mean that someone causes their own death by putting a police officer in a situation where he must kill him. Is there a parallel of "suicide by martyrdom"? Did Jesus commit suicide by allowing himself to be killed when he, by his own admission, could have prevented it?

[otseng]

So suicide is totally unrelated.

I think it depends on how we define "murder". If it is "malicious and premeditated killing of a person", then it could be considered self-murder.

[Greatest I Am]

If you are going to adhere strictly to the "Thou shalt not kill" rule, then tell me, in a natural disaster, I have to triage, I move quickly through patients to determine who has the best possibility of survival with the most minimal of care needed. I literally choose who lives and who dies by simply putting a black or yellow colored X on their chest. Does this make me guilty of killing? Does giving those with the black X a dose of morphine to ease their suffering and make their passing a bit more comfortable make me guilty of killing.

If there is no intent to kill, no guilt should be applied. --Menes ray--is recognized in most if not all courts.

And I disagree about the Martyrdom. I think if you allow someone to kill you, it would be considered suicide. Lets say I know that if I go into a certain part of town wearing a specific colored bandanna I will be killed and I do it anyways. Is this suicide?

Yes, your intent is to have yourself killed.

Let, s say my kidneys fail and I refuse dialysis. Is this suicide.

Yes your intent again is to die.

Further Jesus knew ahead of time that He would be put to death. Suicide.
It can then be said that to suicide for religious reason is justified in the eyes of God.

See the major problem with the open statement of "Thou shalt not kill"? It doesn't give parameters. Therefore one must assume that it remains consistent for all cases. No special considerations allowed.

I have not given any examples where it is OK to kill. I cannot think of any.

Regards
DL

[Confused]

So suicide is totally unrelated.

I think it depends on how we define "murder". If it is "malicious and premeditated killing of a person", then it could be considered self-murder.

Ok, so confused here. If you plan to kill yourself in a heinous way, then it could be considered self murder?

[Confused]

If you are going to adhere strictly to the "Thou shalt not kill" rule, then tell me, in a natural disaster, I have to triage, I move quickly through patients to determine who has the best possibility of survival with the most minimal of care needed. I literally choose who lives and who dies by simply putting a black or yellow colored X on their chest. Does this make me guilty of killing? Does giving those with the black X a dose of morphine to ease their suffering and make their passing a bit more comfortable make me guilty of killing.

If there is no intent to kill, no guilt should be applied. --Menes ray--is recognized in most if not all courts.

And I disagree about the Martyrdom. I think if you allow someone to kill you, it would be considered suicide. Lets say I know that if I go into a certain part of town wearing a specific colored bandanna I will be killed and I do it anyways. Is this suicide?

Yes, your intent is to have yourself killed.

Let, s say my kidneys fail and I refuse dialysis. Is this suicide.

Yes your intent again is to die.

Further Jesus knew ahead of time that He would be put to death. Suicide.
It can then be said that to suicide for religious reason is justified in the eyes of God.

See the major problem with the open statement of "Thou shalt not kill"? It doesn't give parameters. Therefore one must assume that it remains consistent for all cases. No special considerations allowed.

I have not given any examples where it is OK to kill. I cannot think of any.

Regards
DL

Sure you have. For my example of triage, you said the intent was the defining difference, so I have not killed by choosing who to treat and who not to.

So in your view, if I had kidney failure and refused dialysis, I would be comitting suicide? So have sinned by opting not to prolong a long and painful death (end stage renal disease: where one requires dialysis to survive, is painful and terminal). This makes no sense to me.

[Confused]

If you are going to adhere strictly to the "Thou shalt not kill" rule, then tell me, in a natural disaster, I have to triage, I move quickly through patients to determine who has the best possibility of survival with the most minimal of care needed. I literally choose who lives and who dies by simply putting a black or yellow colored X on their chest. Does this make me guilty of killing? Does giving those with the black X a dose of morphine to ease their suffering and make their passing a bit more comfortable make me guilty of killing.

If there is no intent to kill, no guilt should be applied. --Menes ray--is recognized in most if not all courts.

And I disagree about the Martyrdom. I think if you allow someone to kill you, it would be considered suicide. Lets say I know that if I go into a certain part of town wearing a specific colored bandanna I will be killed and I do it anyways. Is this suicide?

Yes, your intent is to have yourself killed.

Let, s say my kidneys fail and I refuse dialysis. Is this suicide.

Yes your intent again is to die.

Further Jesus knew ahead of time that He would be put to death. Suicide.
It can then be said that to suicide for religious reason is justified in the eyes of God.

See the major problem with the open statement of "Thou shalt not kill"? It doesn't give parameters. Therefore one must assume that it remains consistent for all cases. No special considerations allowed.

I have not given any examples where it is OK to kill. I cannot think of any.

Regards
DL

Sure you have. For my example of triage, you said the intent was the defining difference, so I have not killed by choosing who to treat and who not to.

So in your view, if I had kidney failure and refused dialysis, I would be comitting suicide? So have sinned by opting not to prolong a long and painful death (end stage renal disease: where one requires dialysis to survive, is painful and terminal). This makes no sense to me.

[WelshBoy]

"malicious and premeditated killing of a person"

Is suicide malicious?!

[otseng]

If you plan to kill yourself in a heinous way, then it could be considered self murder?

I don't think the method of suicide needs to be "heinous" to be considered self murder, but rather the motivation is the main determination.

If the motivation is loss of hope, then I'm saying that suicide is wrong.

"malicious and premeditated killing of a person"

Is suicide malicious?!

If we define malicious as "deliberately harmful", yes, it is.

Let me also ask here, does anyone actually believe that suicide is not wrong?

[WelshBoy]

It is regrettable, but I don't believe it is wrong.


Still not convinced suicide is malicious, since malice as I understand it describes your actions against another, not to actions directed at yourself. I would say that suicide in most cases is the desire for the relief of suffering, be that psychological, emotional or physical. Freeing yourself from those burdens could hardly be called malicious.

[McCulloch]

Let me also ask here, does anyone actually believe that suicide is not wrong?

I do not believe that suicide is always wrong.

Let's take, for instance, the case of a terminally ill patient who is in severe and constant pain. I believe that such people should have the right to decide when to end it all. This, to me, is morally superior to the DNR passive approach to the same problem.

[Greatest I Am]

I think the primary concern in judging the idea of suicide and killing is motivation and if there is a victim.

Mercy killing or euthanasia does not have a victim in the sense that something is done that the recipient does not want.

Suicide or martyrdom for religious causes is allowed, unless we want to criticize even the actions of Jesus.

Suicide without religious motivation or without medical motivation would be wrong.

Regards
DL