THIS IS YOUR PROOF? Haaaaa

[Avoice]

This proves Jesus is the Messiah, huh?

He turned water into wine
Walked on water
Blah-blah-blah

WHY are Christians so impressed with those things?

Did you notice that all the things that Jesus was said to have done cant be proven.
Walked on water? Says who? Wheres thevell evidence? And even f you had evidence it doesnt matter. It means nothing. It is not foretold that the messiah will walk on water.
Hey,...Neil Armstrong walked on the moon. Pretty cool. But thats not what we look for. Walking on the moon or the water means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

Nobody dared to claim he brought peace. Because wed know it.
If he built the 3rd temple we'd know it

Jesus has done nothing the messiah is to do. And all the things that 'wow' Christians arent the things that we are told the messiah will do.

Christians: Why are you so wowed over things that dont matter?

[Avoice]

[Replying to 1213 in post #19]

Sorry but you cant use the Christian Testament to defend your opinion. I should clarify that. You can use a passage BUT it must MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures. It must be

When reading the Christian testament keep this in mind:
If it's TRUE it's not new. If it's new it's NOT TRUE

MEANING: If the Christian Bible says something which the Hebrew Scriptures also states then it's true .
If the Christian Testament says something that it doesn't say in the Hebrew Scriptures it can NOT be upheld as the truth.
The Hebrew scriptures is ALWAYS THE authority

[OneJack]

[Replying to 1213 in post #19]

The Hebrew scriptures is ALWAYS THE authority

Whattty????? Says who?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to 1213 in post #15]

Where in the scriptures does it say Satan sinned?

Au contraire. Satan obeys God. Just look to the book of Job.

So again, where does it say Satan sinned?

Deceiving someone is not sinful? Not even someone you were supposed to be guarding (like a guardian)?

If Satan had committed no wrong, why was he then rebuked by God for what he had done (deceiving Eve)?


Peace again.

[Haven]

[Replying to OneJack in post #22]

When it comes to interpretation of the Old Testament, the original language does carry more weight, at least from a scholarly perspective.

[Haven]

Deceiving someone is not sinful? Not even someone you were supposed to be guarding (like a guardian)?

If Satan had committed no wrong, why was he then rebuked by God for what he had done (deceiving Eve)?

Peace again.

In the context of Christianity, “sin” means disobedience to the Christian god. That’s it. No action is sinful in and of itself (the Bible condones murder, slavery, genocide, rape, child sexual abuse, other forms of child abuse, and animal cruelty, all at God’s command).

The Serpent from the Genesis 2 creation myth has nothing to do with Satan or the Devil, which are much later concepts invented under Persian influence after the sixth century BCE.

Later Jews and Christians retconned the Serpent and ha-Satan (the Accuser from Job, who was another god (along with Yahweh, El Elyon and others) in the heavenly court) as “the Devil.” But the concept of a Devil appears nowhere in the Christian scriptures before 1 Chronicles, written anonymously in the late Second Temple period. The concept of Satan we know today - some fallen angel, super-demon, torturer and ruler in a literal burning place called Hell, who was also the Serpent in Genesis - didn’t exist until the early medieval period.

This article gives a good scholarly overview from a neutral perspective. I don’t know the religious leanings of the author, but most people who go into Biblical studies as a career aren’t raging atheists. https://scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script ... 3000300013

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #22]

When it comes to interpretation of the Old Testament, the original language does carry more weight, at least from a scholarly perspective.

There’s no need to interpret if people learn to come to God and seek the truth from Him.

[tam]

Peace to you Haven,

Deceiving someone is not sinful? Not even someone you were supposed to be guarding (like a guardian)?

If Satan had committed no wrong, why was he then rebuked by God for what he had done (deceiving Eve)?

Peace again.

In the context of Christianity, “sin” means disobedience to the Christian god. That’s it. No action is sinful in and of itself (the Bible condones murder, slavery, genocide, rape, child sexual abuse, other forms of child abuse, and animal cruelty, all at God’s command).

I'm not sure that is an accurate representation of "Christianity" - considering murder is one of the top things directly commanded against; regardless, men and religion get many things wrong.

Sin is error. Hence, there can be sin in the flesh (sickness, as one example) - something that Christ healed and carried in his own flesh for us (Isaiah 53:4), and there are sins that we commit (bearing false witness against someone, for example.)

The Serpent from the Genesis 2 creation myth has nothing to do with Satan or the Devil, which are much later concepts invented under Persian influence after the sixth century BCE.

Later Jews and Christians retconned the Serpent and ha-Satan (the Accuser from Job, who was another god (along with Yahweh, El Elyon and others) in the heavenly court) as “the Devil.” But the concept of a Devil appears nowhere in the Christian scriptures before 1 Chronicles, written anonymously in the late Second Temple period. The concept of Satan we know today - some fallen angel, super-demon, torturer and ruler in a literal burning place called Hell, who was also the Serpent in Genesis - didn’t exist until the early medieval period.

This article gives a good scholarly overview from a neutral perspective. I don’t know the religious leanings of the author, but most people who go into Biblical studies as a career aren’t raging atheists. https://scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script ... 3000300013

People say a lot of things that are not accurate (on both sides of this particular subject.)

The point is that Avoice has himself likened Satan with the serpent in Genesis. So I'm curious how he reconciles his statement that Satan doesn't sin with the fact that the serpent deceived Eve and was rebuked by God.

Peace again to you!

[1213]

...If the Christian Testament says something that it doesn't say in the Hebrew Scriptures it can NOT be upheld as the truth....

Why should I think so?

[Capbook]

[Replying to 1213 in post #15]

Where in the scriptures does it say Satan sinned?

Au contraire. Satan obeys God. Just look to the book of Job.

So again, where does it say Satan sinned?

Yes, Satan sinned, Ezekiel 28:16.

Ezek 28:12-19 – While initially addressing the King of Tyre, is interpreted as symbolic account of Satan’s fall, referencing his previous state as a blameless, anointed cherub was in Eden, the garden of God.
Ezek 28:13 – The phrase “in Eden” the garden of God, is a key indicator that the passage is not simply about a human ruler.
Ezek 28:14 – And the description of the subject as an “anointed cherub” further points to a heavenly being, not a king. As fallen angels has the power to transform themselves to what they are not, this point to Satan the old serpent as mentioned in Revelation.

Ezek 28:16  “By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, you covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire. 

[Avoice]

Ezekial 28 is about the King of Tyre.
Period

I asked where it says Satan sinned and you quote passages about the king of tyre and say it points to Satan. Says who? Maybe its pointing to Buddha? No? Why not?

There are no passages. You are grasping at straws.