Religon and Politics

[mcbr4481]

I wanted to get some opinions from other Christians, I know that the other groups will have opinions but i wanted to see specifically how other Christians felt about this. (no offense meant to any other groups) But do you think we should involved Religon in politics. Should we vote how the bible and God would want us to?


Well it seemed pretty obvious to me but my friend who is a catholic tells me he thinks we should not vote our religon. So any input would be nice?

[realthinker]

Social organization has evolved based on the advantages that come from cooperating. For academics, it can be described as the advantages of non-zero sum behavior. Two interests find mutual benefit. Both are better off than had they not cooperated. In a sophisticated social structure it may not be apparent how individual behavior is contributing to the benefit of the society as a whole. That is where law comes in. At times is is necessary to compel the individual to put aside individual advantage to the advantage of the whole.

Where a social organization maintains a similar basis of behavior -- religious, political, or cultural -- laws that may reinforce that homogeneous understanding may contribute to the stability and the overall prosperity of that organization. That is why on a smaller scale secular societies have historically had an advantage.

However, when the social organization has grown and has regular influence from other social organizations, basing law on ideas that are not widely held will not contribute to the overall prosperity. It will promote internal friction that will lead to social stratification and perhaps the dissolution of the social organization.

That being the theory, I believe that any public policy that compels people to behave in a fashion that does not contribute to the prosperity of society as a whole is likely flawed policy, and such policy is more than likely going to be the result if it is based on the secular views of one segment of society that are in contrast to a large portion of the remainder.

The US has recently made the transition from being rather homogeneous with respect to religion to one that is more than a little diverse. The majority may still be euro-christian, but not enough that it is going to be a benefit to the country to try to use that as the template for our society.

Those days are past, and now we've got to find another more universal understanding of what is going to make us prosper as a whole. We're going to have to leave religious justification of law out of the equation. Some of the ideas may be legitimate, but the justification likely won't be widely acceptable.

[DerangedProtagonist]

..............

Those days are past, and now we've got to find another more universal understanding of what is going to make us prosper as a whole. We're going to have to leave religious justification of law out of the equation. Some of the ideas may be legitimate, but the justification likely won't be widely acceptable.

Nice post.

My personal disagreement with Christian involvement in politics has to do with the fact that rule-making and law-making is not part of the religion.

It simply arises out of the idea that some have that "making good laws" makes us "virtuous people." Ok, sure, laws can make people behave, but making rules and laws does not make you a virtuous person. The idea that one can make rules and laws can often show up as a person's arrogance. I'm not saying that everyone who sets up legislation or creates laws is arrogant, but if they aren't open-minded about the laws they are making, that is as good as arrogance.

This is what I often see when Christians get into politics -- it's this know-all attitude that they know what's right and that they are doing the right thing. In extreme cases they might even kill and murder people for it -- such as the bombing of abortion clinics.

I consider a lot of this behaviour offensive and an insult to my religion, a violation and desecration of the personal identity of millions of Christians around the world. The making of rules and laws is not part of my religion and the arrogance that can come out of it is contrary to its true purpose. There are far more important things in Christianity than making rules and laws for people.

Jurisprudence is not part of Christianity.

[MagusYanam]

My personal disagreement with Christian involvement in politics has to do with the fact that rule-making and law-making is not part of the religion.

It simply arises out of the idea that some have that "making good laws" makes us "virtuous people." Ok, sure, laws can make people behave, but making rules and laws does not make you a virtuous person. The idea that one can make rules and laws can often show up as a person's arrogance. I'm not saying that everyone who sets up legislation or creates laws is arrogant, but if they aren't open-minded about the laws they are making, that is as good as arrogance.

This is what I often see when Christians get into politics -- it's this know-all attitude that they know what's right and that they are doing the right thing. In extreme cases they might even kill and murder people for it -- such as the bombing of abortion clinics.

I consider a lot of this behaviour offensive and an insult to my religion, a violation and desecration of the personal identity of millions of Christians around the world. The making of rules and laws is not part of my religion and the arrogance that can come out of it is contrary to its true purpose. There are far more important things in Christianity than making rules and laws for people.

Jurisprudence is not part of Christianity.

I completely agree, DP. Confucius said, if people are led by laws and harsh punishments, they will conform to the law to avoid the punishment, but they will have no sense of shame. If people are led by example of virtue, they will have a sense of shame, and thus become virtuous themselves.

And it seems Jesus had this same principle in mind when he said to resist not one who is evil, to give freely when asked, to pray for those who persecute, to conduct oneself with the humility of the meanest servant, and to cultivate a spiritual discipline against resentment. (The last is one I have a particularly hard time with, personally, but that makes it all the more important and worthwhile.) But it's part of the idea that force cannot make people virtuous, only exposure to virtue can make people virtuous.

And I sympathise with your last paragraph. It puzzles, frustrates and angers me to see people proclaiming themselves to be Christian and yet trying to apply political force against environmentalists, teachers, intellectuals, homosexuals and advocates of civil rights, to try and force them to conform to their standards and way of thinking. Sometimes they even apply psychological and physical force (as in abortion-clinic bombings), and this definitely goes against what Jesus preached.