Does God Intervene?

[POI]

Christians, both in prayer and without, will state God gave me this, did that, or other.

For debate: Does God ever intervene, with or without being asked? If no, why ever ask God for anything? If yes, why does he skip many/all requests?

[King Phenomenon]

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[POI]

1- Why should every prayer be answered ?

They shouldn't. A believed upon God would logically not grant a prayer which resulted in "evil." For instance, praying for someone to be harmed, etc... You raised the parent/child analogy, in that the parent knows best. Well, if the child was suffering in agony, from a fatal condition, and the parent had a way to stop it, wouldn't they? Of course. Alternatively, if the child was asking the parent for a candy bar, the parent might tell the child why they cannot have one right now. But at least there would be some two-way dialogue to explain why the request will go unfulfilled.

2- “Children can’t understand morality, so they shouldn’t be rewarded or punished.”

Exactly — and that’s what Islam teaches. Children are not accountable for sins before reaching mental maturity (bāligh). That’s not a flaw — it’s mercy. Your complaint proves our theological point. The child harmed in this life is not judged as an adult but is compensated in the Hereafter. Your framework has no answer for their suffering. Ours does.

Then you completely missed my point. What is the point of the allowed-upon harm, if no theodicy is gained? Especially since the claimed intervening God has the ability to intervene. In essence, what you are saying, is that any small child, who is tortured and then dies, gets a free pass. Okay, why the added torture too?

3. “God should behave in a consistent, observable way if He exists.”

This assumes you define the terms of divine action. But any true deity, by definition, is not accountable to human preference or timeframes. You're not arguing against God — you're arguing against a god that obeys your logic only. That’s not rationality; that’s hubris disguised as reason.

Why is my logic faulty? Let's apply Occam's Razor. What is more likely?

a) An intervening God exists, who intervenes sometimes, and intervenes sometimes to resolve the resolvable issues alone. The unresolvable issues, which are also deemed as "evil", are always skipped because God is not a genie in a bottle -- even though God is said to sometime intervene to facilitate prayer requests to remove other "evil" conditions which are curable.
b) God does not really exist. We are praying to ourselves. Sometimes things go the way we want them to, and other times, they don't.

Of the two options, b) is the much simpler answer.

4. “Prayer works like chance.”

Even if true statistically — so what? That’s like saying “Giving charity doesn't stop all poverty, so charity is useless.” Prayer isn’t a vending machine — it’s a relationship, a spiritual tool that transforms the soul, aligns the heart, and invites grace. Reducing it to lottery odds is like reducing marriage to contract enforcement.

You would have a point if 'chance' included the incurable. But it doesn't. There is no chance God answers the prayer to restore limbs, remove ALS, dementia, etc...

5. “Truth doesn’t care about feelings.”

Agreed. But then don't mock what you haven’t proven false. Don’t hide emotional frustration under pseudo-logic. You're angry that the universe isn’t on your terms, and instead of accepting that limitation, you lash out at a being you claim doesn’t exist. That contradiction is telling.

Again, I'm not angry. I instead find your belief system illogical. If God does not intervene at all, then you might have some point(s). But then you would merely be replacing existing problems with new ones.

6. “Your belief system is illogical.”

You haven’t refuted our logic. You’ve only said you don’t like its implications. That’s not a rational critique — that’s personal discomfort. Logic doesn’t bend to your emotional rejection of mystery, suffering, or delayed justice.

Yes, I have refuted your logic. An intervening God 100% of the time rejects requests to remove one's ALS, which I would assume is deemed 'evil' as well. If a God sometimes intervenes, then this God would logically sometimes remove ALS, just like he sometimes removes other deemed 'evil' curable conditions.

*********************************

Did you watch the videos in post #4?

If not, here are the take-aways...

1) Believers accept the hits and ignore the misses.
2) The butterfly effect, as it relates to God's plan, makes the concept of prayer illogical.

[POI]

[Replying to mms20102 in post #20]

YOU You assume that because you can’t understand why God doesn’t intervene in your preferred way, He therefore doesn’t exist.

POI You are applying a strawman argument here. It's not my preferred way. Your pushback here is that God chooses not to ever cure any incurable conditions. He only sometimes chooses to intervene in curable conditions. This is quite convenient. It's a basic observation, in that there is likely no God at all. Once ALS is cured, then God will (all-of-a-sudden), get the credit. Much like Polio. It was fatal for a long time, until humans came up with a vaccine. And now, God is keeping Polio away from pretty much all humans.

YOU A stuffed animal has no will, consciousness, or awareness.

POI Neither does an imaginary deity. Prayer works at the rate of chance, whether you pray to a stuffed animal, or an imaginary deity.

YOU You're cherry-picking only the conditions that remain incurable, ignoring countless diseases humanity has found cures for — many through processes believers attribute to divine guidance. Selective evidence to support a general claim is the cherry-picking fallacy. It’s dishonest.

POI No, what is dishonest is to instead state that your claimed upon intervening God chooses to ignore any and all requests, which are also deemed 'evil', just because humans have not found a cure for them yet. See my Polio example above...

YOU That’s not “basically” what I said at all. You constructed a distorted version of Islamic belief just to attack it. This is textbook strawman fallacy. In Islam, accountability requires maturity (taklīf), and God’s mercy to children is a mercy not a loophole. Your caricature is intellectually lazy.

POI If an intervening God exists, and God sometimes grants the request to remove the requested torture, why allow the torture of a dead human who is not old enough to gain theodicy? I'll answer for you, to speed this along... The torture is pointless.

YOU Then prove it. Show a meta-analysis of sincere, long-term believers and their prayer outcomes in relation to spiritual peace, psychological resilience, or even physical recovery. Otherwise, you’re just making bare assertions and shifting the burden of proof without offering empirical evidence yourself.

POI Here --> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16569567/

YOU You demand consistency, but only on your terms, then declare failure when the system doesn’t comply. That’s special pleading — a fallacy where exceptions are made for your position, but not for your opponent’s. You won’t allow for divine wisdom, timing, or afterlife justice. That’s not rationalism — it’s narcissism disguised as skepticism.

POI Already explained. but thanks for the strawman.

Irrelevant. That’s a red herring, distracting from the claim being discussed: Does God intervene at all

It's very much relevant. The Bible speaks about God curing the incurable. But now he doesn't?

[POI]

Fallacy #8: Emotional Appeal Disguised as Rationalism
"I harbor no anger. I just find your belief system illogical."

You downplay emotional bias while leaking sarcasm, mockery, and resentment across every sentence. That contradiction undermines your posture of “just being logical.” Emotional appeal dressed in rational language is still a fallacy if it clouds judgment and misrepresents what the other side actually believes.

If you actually knew me, you certainly would not be saying this. 'Morals' are relative, even if a God exists. My point here is to expose how your "God" is not logical with itself.

[1213]

In fact God answers the prayers even of a non believer

Why do you think a non believer would pray God?

[1213]

Then how come "God" perpetually skips prayer requests to cure specific conditions and illnesses?

How do you know what people have prayed, and what of them God has skipped?

Does this mean that only the deemed unrighteous contract these conditions and illnesses, who also pray to relieve them?

It means what it says. God hears the prayers of the righteous. It may be that even righteous person becomes sick. And at least it is possible that even a righteous person may have to suffer, for example Jesus.

[mms20102]

[Replying to 1213 in post #25]

Why do you think a non believer would pray God?

You are the one objecting so I guess you are the one supposed to point out why he wouldn't, don't shift the burden of proof to me

[POI]

Then how come "God" perpetually skips prayer requests to cure specific conditions and illnesses?

How do you know what people have prayed, and what of them God has skipped?

My uncle has cerebral palsy. Our family prayed for decades to remove it, and nada. A matter of fact, cerebral palsy is another condition in which God will skip. Pray as hard, or as often as you like, and no one's cerebral palsy is going away. Why does God skip incurable conditions?

Does this mean that only the deemed unrighteous contract these conditions and illnesses, who also pray to relieve them?

It means what it says. God hears the prayers of the righteous. It may be that even righteous person becomes sick. And at least it is possible that even a righteous person may have to suffer, for example Jesus.

If God hears the prayers of the righteous, this will include both petitionary and intercessory prayers. God would logically have to perpetually ignore both kinds of requests to cure anyone's cerebral palsy, while sometimes answering these prayer requests to cure any curable conditions.

[1213]

If God hears the prayers of the righteous, this will include both petitionary and intercessory prayers. God would logically have to perpetually ignore both kinds of requests to cure anyone's cerebral palsy, while sometimes answering these prayer requests to cure any curable conditions.

Righteous person prays like this:

When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most assuredly, I tell you, they have received their reward. But you, when you pray, enter into your inner chamber, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. In praying, don't use vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their much speaking. Therefore don't be like them, for your Father knows what things you need, before you ask him. Pray like this: 'Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. Let your Kingdom come. Let your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. Bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For yours is the Kingdom, the power, and the glory forever. Amen.'
Matt. 6:5-13

If some thing is not cured, even after righteous prayer, maybe there is a good reason for that.

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #25]

Why do you think a non believer would pray God?

You are the one objecting so I guess you are the one supposed to point out why he wouldn't, don't shift the burden of proof to me

Why he would not, because he thinks God is not real.