Jesus' Failed Second Coming Prophecy & What this Means for Christianity

[Rational Agnostic]

The central doctrine of Christianity states that Jesus will return in his Father's glory with his angels to judge the living and the dead, gathering up his elect to take them to spend an eternity in heaven with him, while casting the unbelievers into eternal hellfire. However, what many Christians do not realize is that when reading the Bible, we find that Jesus himself actually gave a very specific timeframe of when this apocalyptic event was supposed to occur. And, as it turns out, this timeframe has long expired. Jesus predicted that he would return, and that the apocalypse and final judgment, would occur within the lifetimes of his disciples, certainly no later than 100 AD.

One example Scripture where Jesus mentions this is found in Mark 13:9-30, where (referring to the final judgment), Jesus states:

“You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit. “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.
“If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

“But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

“At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

A common explanation that apologists and pastors give to explain away this passage is that "this generation" referred to in verse 30 is not actually referring to the generation alive at Jesus' time, but instead is referring to a future generation, or perhaps defining "generation" to mean something different than its usual sense. But when we examine other passages in the Bible where Jesus makes this same prophecy, we see that clearly, this is not the case. Jesus is in fact referring to the literal generation alive at the time he was. Let's take a look at another instance where Jesus makes this same prediction of his return, but even more explicitly states that it will be within his disciples' lifetimes: Matthew 10:17-23. Notice that the language used in Matthew 10:17-22 EXACTLY mirrors the language used in Mark 13:9-13, which is very clearly a chapter about end times, so there is no ambiguity about what Jesus is referring to here. He is very clearly returning to his Second Coming and the subsequent end of the world. Mark 10:17-23 states:

Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Here we can see very clearly that "this generation" referred to in Mark 13 is in fact the generation alive at Jesus' time, and that Jesus explicitly and unambiguously predicted that he would return within the first century A.D.

This failed prophecy is also found in Matthew 16:27-28, in which Jesus states:

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

So, clearly, the second coming of Christ and subsequent Apocalypse that was supposed to occur in the first century never happened, and Jesus was wrong. Yet, more than 2000 years later, billions of Christians around the world still earnestly believe that it will occur in the future, and are not aware that this prophecy already failed. The truth is, there is no reason to expect that this second coming will ever happen, and is anything more than a fairy tale. If Jesus was wrong about something as key and central to Christianity as this, there is no reason to trust that Jesus was right about anything else he said, and no reason to believe that the Christian god exists outside the imaginations of those who believe in him.

[Mae von H]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #20]

Thanks for the welcome!

It appears that we do not see eye on quite a few points. Maybe too many for a good discussion. But I will share what I think and at least we can understand the other.

I think the words of Jesus to flee were fulfilled when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies and when they left, everyone fled. This is an historical fact. No Christians were in the city when it fell in 70AD. They had somewhere to flee to. I am loath to attribute what people in generations before thought or assumed, such as Europeans from the middle ages thinking they could simply flee the 30 year war, for example. What is written in many places is the believers assumed the fall of Jerusalem was the fulfillment of Mathew 24. Doesn’t seem that they thought it would happen again. Those who had beaten and killed the Son of God WERE punished as scripture said. I do not see this happening again neither.

I know this is a minority, albiet growing eschatology.

Thanks for the answer thought.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #20]

Thanks for the welcome!

It appears that we do not see eye on quite a few points. Maybe too many for a good discussion. But I will share what I think and at least we can understand the other.

I think the words of Jesus to flee were fulfilled when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies and when they left, everyone fled. This is an historical fact. No Christians were in the city when it fell in 70AD. They had somewhere to flee to. I am loath to attribute what people in generations before thought or assumed, such as Europeans from the middle ages thinking they could simply flee the 30 year war, for example. What is written in many places is the believers assumed the fall of Jerusalem was the fulfillment of Mathew 24. Doesn’t seem that they thought it would happen again. Those who had beaten and killed the Son of God WERE punished as scripture said. I do not see this happening again neither.

I know this is a minority, albiet growing eschatology.

Thanks for the answer thought.

I am no opponent of minority views,trust me.My own views are somewhat minority, too.

Now, for sure Jesus in the gospels is predicting the fall of the temple itself and the destruction of Jerusalem. Flee or not and whether it saved anyone or not, this is the sign that the end would come, and within the lifetimes of those hearing it.

That didn't happen and hasn't happened and the plain fact is that the prophecy failed unless it can be somehow re-written to mean something else, which is what the argument about 'This generation' is all about.

I'm pretty sure what had happened. The Jewish war ended. The Christians crowed that this was the punishment of the Jews for killing Jesus. The idea from Pharisee Judaism and taken up by Christians through Paul was that this signified that the End was coming soon. The gospels were written in this belief and talk of the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem going to suffer because it wouldn't shelter under Jesus, the Jews accepting blame for Jesus'death (Matthew) the Romans taking away the state (John) was all written as retrospective prophecy by Jesus to argue that the fall of Jerusalem (which had already happened) showed that the end times were coming any day now. Which is what Christianity is still trying to tell us today.

I just don't buy it. Do you?

[Mae von H]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

“I am no opponent of minority views,trust me.My own views are somewhat minority, too.”

I’m glad.

“Now, for sure Jesus in the gospels is predicting the fall of the temple itself and the destruction of Jerusalem. Flee or not and whether it saved anyone or not, this is the sign that the end would come, and within the lifetimes of those hearing it.”

The end of what, is the question.

“That didn't happen and hasn't happened and the plain fact is that the prophecy failed unless it can be somehow re-written to mean something else, which is what the argument about 'This generation' is all about.”

Ah, but I and those early Christians thought it did. It was the end of that age. The Mosiac Jewish faith was finished never to return. That was the end as predicted. That’s my view anyway.

“I'm pretty sure what had happened. The Jewish war ended. The Christians crowed that this was the punishment of the Jews for killing Jesus. The idea from Pharisee Judaism and taken up by Christians through Paul was that this signified that the End was coming soon. The gospels were written in this belief and talk of the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem going to suffer because it wouldn't shelter under Jesus, the Jews accepting blame for Jesus'death (Matthew) the Romans taking away the state (John) was all written as retrospective prophecy by Jesus to argue that the fall of Jerusalem (which had already happened) showed that the end times were coming any day now. Which is what Christianity is still trying to tell us today.”

Well, when did Paul write of this? I don’t recall any of them writing of the punishment of the Jews. The gospels were written before 70AD. Why do you think they were afterwards? All the writings of Paul were definitely before 70 AD. He was executed beforehand.

“I just don't buy it. Do you?”

No, I don’t buy it either.

[Diogenes]

The position that ALL of the christians assumed (wrongly) that Jesus was bodily returning in their lifetime and would forcibly and violently setting up a kingdom results in what I consider a rather fatal mistake if one wants to come to a knowledge of the truth. That fatal mistake is that all, 100%, of the writers of the New Testament were dead wrong about something that mattered most to them secondly only to the resurrection.

Yes, they were "dead wrong." Paul and others took Jesus at his word (at least as is recorded in Matthew and Mark, that he would be back within the lifetimes of some of them. The verses are clear. So is Paul's reaction, acting as if return was imminent. His admonition not to marry is just one example. What movement gains strength thru the ages by being celibate?

The Church was so embarrassed about this 2d Coming not happening, that they presented a forged 'second' Thessalonians, to soften Paul's views on the imminence of the return. 2d Thessalonians has a completely different style and theme re: Jesus' return. This forgery is ample evidence the Church knew they'd gotten it wrong, so had to cover their claims with a rewrite.
Yes, that it is forged and not written by Paul is disputed by scholars, but the argument for a forgery is persuasive...

... it is worth noting that at least some forged Pauline letters were written well after a date modern scholars might deem early enough for the letter to be considered Pauline, such as the Third Epistle to the Corinthians, estimated to have been written around 160-170 CE; forgers were not forced to write close in time to the writers they imitated. On the other hand, it is not clear that a forger would need to ensure his writing was not contemporaneous with 1 Thessalonians if he was not actually writing the letter to Thessalonica; furthermore, if Nicholls is correct in believing 2 Thessalonians to be authentic, then Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:2 provides evidence that forgeries in his name already existed in his own lifetime, discrediting his argument that forgers would take care to write far enough apart in time to ensure contemporaries could not denounce the forgery.

In his book Forged, New Testament scholar Bart D. Ehrman puts forward some of the most common arguments against the authenticity of 2 Thessalonians. For example, he argues that the views concerning the Second Coming of Christ expressed in 2 Thessalonians differ so strikingly from those found in 1 Thessalonians that they cannot be written by the same author.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Ep ... ssalonians

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

“I am no opponent of minority views,trust me.My own views are somewhat minority, too.”

I’m glad.

“Now, for sure Jesus in the gospels is predicting the fall of the temple itself and the destruction of Jerusalem. Flee or not and whether it saved anyone or not, this is the sign that the end would come, and within the lifetimes of those hearing it.”

The end of what, is the question.

“That didn't happen and hasn't happened and the plain fact is that the prophecy failed unless it can be somehow re-written to mean something else, which is what the argument about 'This generation' is all about.”

Ah, but I and those early Christians thought it did. It was the end of that age. The Mosiac Jewish faith was finished never to return. That was the end as predicted. That’s my view anyway.

“I'm pretty sure what had happened. The Jewish war ended. The Christians crowed that this was the punishment of the Jews for killing Jesus. The idea from Pharisee Judaism and taken up by Christians through Paul was that this signified that the End was coming soon. The gospels were written in this belief and talk of the destruction of the Temple, Jerusalem going to suffer because it wouldn't shelter under Jesus, the Jews accepting blame for Jesus'death (Matthew) the Romans taking away the state (John) was all written as retrospective prophecy by Jesus to argue that the fall of Jerusalem (which had already happened) showed that the end times were coming any day now. Which is what Christianity is still trying to tell us today.”

Well, when did Paul write of this? I don’t recall any of them writing of the punishment of the Jews. The gospels were written before 70AD. Why do you think they were afterwards? All the writings of Paul were definitely before 70 AD. He was executed beforehand.

“I just don't buy it. Do you?”

No, I don’t buy it either.

This is a matter of evaluation - do the gospels contain prophecy of the Jewish war or were they (or the original on which they were based) afterwards? If after the end of the Jewish war, they have to be after Paul, and since they were not written by eyewitnesses (and couldn't be - a matter for re -discussion), what they related had to be transmitted through Paul, perhaps with a basic Jesus story too. In any case, the transmission of this idea of an imminent 2nd coming must have been taught to Paul as it was transmitted to the Gospel -writers. True, Paul doesn't dwell (as I recall) on how soon the 2nd coming was, but the sense of urgency is there. The hasty attention to the administration of his churches my be inexperience or disinterest, but I think it was because it was only an interim measure before the End came.

Now, for my part, where do you get the idea that the early Christians thought the end had come in the form you refer to? I get the impression they were waiting for it soon, then, in 1000 AD when they all gave their money to the Church expecting the end and didn't get it back when it didn't, and they are still expecting it today. Some may have toyed with the idea it had happened in a secretive sort of way, but of course, that isn't what the Gospels say is going to happen. It describes the event graphically and you can't miss it unless one is determined to ignore it.

Now, the idea of the Christians crowing over the fall of the city and Temple is found as a prediction (after the event) in the gospels. Jesus lamenting that Jerusalem would not accept him and the symbolism of the cursing of the fig tree because the time wasn't right. John putting a prophecy into the mouth of Caiaphas (of all people) that the Romans would come and take away their state, and of course the prediction of tumbled stones. And on top of that, Bar Serapeon is likely referring to this in talking of the Jews killing their just king "What did that get them, eh?" I think that reflects the Christian belief that the Jewish war happened because the Jews rejected and killed Jesus (though it was actually the Romans). Matthew of course dogpiled on that by having the Jewish crowd accept their fate and those of their children for Jesus' death, thus getting the Romans off the hook. Because it was, of course, written by Romans.

cue- 'but it was written by Jews!'. Couldn't be. No Jew would swallow the crab arguments for sidelining Sabbath and Temple. No Jew would swallow the blasphemy charge - you have to be a Christian to think that claiming messiahship meant claiming Godship, in effect. Likely a Jew would know there was no Passover swap custom. Likely they would know that the donkey ride was a Sukkhot event and couldn't be at Passover.

Matthew (considered the most Jewish of them and the most eyewitness) rushes (in his nativity) to equate a pretender to the Jewish throne with the messiah predicted in scripture. Only a non Jew would use that plot - device. And I suspect that he couldn't read Hebrew. We know he mistook some passages (Virgin birth and donkey ride) because he must have read it in Greek, and I think he must have read the 'babes and sucklings' passage in the Septuagint, too. It doesn't read that way in the OT.

[Sioux See Q]

I studied this extensively because I got tired of the threat that he was returning soon. Either Jesus was mistaken (therefore not god), lying (therefore not a good god), or the words don’t mean what they say (therefore not a straight forward god). When I read Josephus, in particular “Wars of the Jews”, it was obvious that the events in 70 AD fulfilled his return. It could be further argued that the final final judgment occurred almost exactly 1000 years after that and what we have now is “The New Jerusalem”.

Read the final chapters of Revelation and consider that this earth as it is right now might be “heaven” and everything outside the walls of the 1500 square mile city “hell” and the “kings of the earth” are in charge.

Count me out. The same god who condemns kings in the Old Testament is glorifying them in Revelation.

I think the stories are made up to justify their rule and control the population. It’s a myth, but the indoctrination is real. When I asked a pastor if he wanted to study the imagery of the New Jerusalem and whether that’s the “heaven” we are told it is, he blew me off. Whether my fulfillment theory is correct is irrelevant to that. Even if “soon” meant a million years, are pastors teaching that what they’re all waiting for is to be servants of kings? Doesn’t that sound like what we have and what we have had for all of recorded history? The book begins with the deity choosing a bloodline to get the promised land. It was real land and probably the most desired land in the known world. It wasn’t heavenly land. The book ends with the kings of the earth and servants in the New Jerusalem. Maybe it’s just a coincidence that it has the same name.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Sioux See Q in post #26]

The matter of the failed 2nd coming is regularly discussed. Some say it will come and twist what the Bible says to make it mean something else, and others may try to claim it already happened. Of course the Gospels are half baked...I mean half based...on the Jewish war which it seems suggested, the Christians saw as punishment for Jewish rejection of Jesus (1) and expected Jesus' return in their lifetimes, as Christians ever since have been expecting ever since.

I see Christianity as doing the same as other religions. I suspect it has the same evolved biological evolutionary purpose - as does other Dogma like the secular ones of the Marxist dictators, and Christianity in its' present form would probably horrify its' inventor, Paul as much as the Marxist regimes would have horrified Marx.

The Abrahamic versions have two great advantages - the history looks at least historical Judaism was about tribal identity and fighting for it. Christianity was about Jesus and was missionary. Islam does both and no wonder it's do effective. The only drawback is its' rules and regulations.Fine for keeping control but off -putting for anyone who has better things to do than unison chanting.

The downside of religion is tribalism. Theology doesn't help either which is why we see different denominations springing up and not uncommonly going to war.

(1) Bar - Serapeon. "What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished." This matches the view of John presaging the event through Caiaphas making a prophecy. about the Romans coming and taking away their nation

[boatsnguitars]

The point of all this is that we never need to take religious claims seriously. So what if the Bible says anything? Its never true or wise, except perhaps when it's talking about things we all knew anyhow. As for the junk about supernatural events, God's and demons and what not- so what?

Religious people want to believe. They want to do mental gymnastics that no other rational person would so they feel smart, like they've discovered occult knowledge.

As we see here, you can show them clear errors or contradictions and they will claim we need to interpret it properly, as they do. Or as their translation of the Bible does, or their sect or denomination does.

None of that matters. They aren't giving us anything of value. There is nothing new under the Sun, that includes the fact that all religions are man-made, soon to be dead, and based on lies and lunacy.

[JehovahsWitness]

Read the final chapters of Revelation and consider that this earth as it is right now might be “heaven” and everything outside the walls of the 1500 square mile city “hell” and the “kings of the earth” are in charge.

Count me out. The same god who condemns kings in the Old Testament is glorifying them in Revelation.

I do not at all agree with your interpretation here.

The same god who condemns kings in the Old Testament is glorifying them in Revelation.

Did you have a particular verse in mind to support this conclusion?



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

[Sioux See Q]

[Replying to boatsnguitars in post #28]

I think they need to be taken seriously because millions of people do. I believe they are made up, but I have to deal with the repercussions of what others believe. This includes their wars, superstitions, etc…. I used to consider myself a Christian but when Trump people started to use the Bible as their authority, I decided I better study the book more because I wasn’t reading it like them. Truth be told, most of them aren’t, but I was sincere and I wanted to understand. I also studied other ancient near eastern religions and the Old Testament for three years. At the end, I realized they were all written by the religious elites for the religious and political elites and Trump and company are a perfect recent example. But I understand this is just another conspiracy theory and I will never be able to prove it. Christians can’t entertain these ideas at all so I quit talking and thinking about it. But even though you and I may agree that there is no second coming or third coming, millions of others think there is. And they (being led by the elites who know it’s a scam) seem to be doing their best to make it happen.