Leaving church

[Wootah]

Church means gathering or group. So it doesn't have to be answered by just religious people.

This is how to test your own church. Not by leaving and seeing how they react but when people do leave or want to leave how does the church react?

How do you react when people leave you? Are you a cult of one that hates when people leave you or won't let them? Any experiences of trying to leave a cult to share

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #17]

You are missing the point and making the habitual mistake and error of blinkered Faith. Yes, Christianity makes Jesus the thing one must "Follow" to be saved (though one at least around here doesn't seem to get it but thinks it's good deeds) but which church, doctrine and group to follow?

It doesn't matter? There is no Baptist or Catholic, Pentecostalist or Mormon, but all are Christian and atheists have always said so, and only Christians say one has to do the Dogma right.

Having said which, Ok - Jesus is the ship and there are many lifeboats, but which is the right one, and if the wrong one, should you switch? What do you think JW. Who says yours if the right lifeboat, and does it matter if some escape the suckers and hooks and escape to a different church?

[JehovahsWitness]

You need to address my complete statement and explain how the claimed "scriptures provided" support your claim. ...

Posters here are extremely intelligent and are more than capable of understanding what "there is no salvation in anyone else" means. That said I'm happy to have an in depth scriptural discussion on salvation theology but feel a scripture based exchange is better suited to Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma. Feel free to open up a new thread over at TD&D and I'll certainly consider contributing to it.

The purpose of this subforum [Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma] is to have a place to freely engage in debates on Christian theology ...

In any case, this particular thread is asking Christians (and non Christians alike) how they react to those that leave the church, (with the inference in the question that a negative reaction is indicative of a "cult") and my point is that a negative reaction arguably reflects a fundamental Christian theology.

[TRANSPONDER]

You need to address my complete statement and explain how the claimed "scriptures provided" support your claim. ...

Posters here are extremely intelligent and are more than capable of understanding what "there is no salvation in anyone else" means. That said I'm happy to have an in depth scriptural discussion on salvation theology but feel a scripture based exchange is better suite to Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma. Feel free to open up a new thread over at TD&D and I'll be consider contributing to it.

Alternativey you can consult my RELATED POSTS link or the INDEX of my posts which are listed by topics in alphabetical order.

We are perfectly capable of understanding what "there is no salvation in anyone else" means, if only you were clear what you meant. If only Jesus saves, then which church one selects to do it doesn't matter. If no salvation in anyone but the right church and its' dogma, why yours? Without making it a quagmire of theology, some basic reasons why JWs are the only church that saves. Because you don't do church on a Sunday? Because you don't believe in a heaven or hell (not that you blurt that one out on the doorstoop), that you don't grab your dad's old blunderbuss to defend your home when armed hordes invade? That you let people die rather than transgress some Dogma you have? Anything else you have to make your particular creed look better than the others?

[boatsnguitars]

The church IS like a lifeboat! (Thank you, JW for that analogy)

You dont have to thank me, the analogy comes from the bible writer of the book of Peter, so ... thank him.

True, I should have known it would have been regurgitated dogma...

So, folks make your choice:

Despair, fear, 10% of your income to pay for the guy convincing you of the fear and despair, and telling you you are a sinner and need to repent, etc.



Or:
Living life to its fullest, since you only get one chance:





And, if we all work togather, we can do amazing things:

[JehovahsWitness]

The church IS like a lifeboat! (Thank you, JW for that analogy)

You dont have to thank me, the analogy comes from the bible writer of the book of Peter, so ... thank him.

True, I should have known it ...

No problem. Generally on a forum discussing Christianty there would be be some reference to the work early church writers.


Have an excellent day,

JW

[2timothy316]

The fact is that the Christian message is based on exclusivity of salvation restricted to acceptable worship of Jehovah (YHWH) God through Jesus Christ alone.

No, it's not. It may be the message of one branch or branches of Christianity, but not all Christianity. There is no single clear message from the Bible what is required for salvation.


Tcg

I started a thread on the TD&D board on this very subject a while back. Why isn't the Bible clear to everyone?
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=40604

[Wootah]

The church IS like a lifeboat! (Thank you, JW for that analogy)

You dont have to thank me, the analogy comes from the bible writer of the book of Peter, so ... thank him.

True, I should have known it would have been regurgitated dogma...

So, folks make your choice:

Despair, fear, 10% of your income to pay for the guy convincing you of the fear and despair, and telling you you are a sinner and need to repent, etc.



Or:
Living life to its fullest, since you only get one chance:





And, if we all work togather, we can do amazing things:

I would put it to you that you are more religious than me and I would use that post of yours as evidence.

But it is a spiritual battle and I would ask you to remember this post of yours and what you value over time.

Jesus says in John 10:10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

I feel that to be very true. Your post highlights the spirtual nature of the war.

[TRANSPONDER]

[Replying to Wootah in post #27]

That's poor stuff. It merely makes a religious -dogmatic assertion of your own with not a shred of decent evidence to back it up.

The thread was on whether one ought to leave a church if it doesn't look good, not on claims about spiritual warfare.

I was just watching a '7 proofs of God' video and it was terrible (1). But it did move me to come here in search of some better apologetics. No luck so far.

(1) Prophecy, Daniel, Design, marriage, inerrancy, artefacts..mind, they probably don't know these have all been contested

[Wootah]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #28]

Sorry I didn't deliver.

[boatsnguitars]

[Replying to Wootah in post #27]

That's poor stuff. It merely makes a religious -dogmatic assertion of your own with not a shred of decent evidence to back it up.

The thread was on whether one ought to leave a church if it doesn't look good, not on claims about spiritual warfare.

I was just watching a '7 proofs of God' video and it was terrible (1). But it did move me to come here in search of some better apologetics. No luck so far.

(1) Prophecy, Daniel, Design, marriage, inerrancy, artefacts..mind, they probably don't know these have all been contested

I fully expected it. Their leaders have convinced them the world "out there" is full of sin, temptation, death, danger, etc. Even a benign thing like a girl in a bikini is enough to cause seizures in the devout, or to see people of different skin colors together, or to see mixed fabrics, etc..
They believe they are in a spiritual battle and they energized when they see all that "temptation" - they have been taught that sitting quietly in the lifeboat is the heroic thing to do: sit quiet and wait to die. (And give your pastor money)

This is the damage religion does. People aren't allowed to fully express their humanity. In fact, they are considered pious if they can reject all their humanity. That's why the pinnacle of religious acts are martyrdom, celibacy, devotion to a single cause, asceticism, self-flagellation, etc.
These are things that humans shouldn't do in excess - or at all, in most cases. But religion teaches them otherwise.

I for one, say "Stay in your lifeboat!" - if that's where you want to be, but don't imagine the rest of the world ought to join you. The world "out there" is dangerous, sinful, full of temptation - sure - but it's also amazing, beautiful, full of wonder and joy, and all that sin, danger and temptation can be easily managed if you are given the right education.

So, Wootah is right for Wootah and the religion he found that agrees with his views. It's just not right for most people - thank god.