The Death Penalty

[jgh7]

I'm making a hypothetical:

In this world, we are able to know with 100% certainity whether someone is guilty of a crime or not. In this world, the process of going through with the death penalty is no less feasible than that of supporting a prisoner with a life sentence.

So it's a world where the death penalty is equally feasible to a life sentence, and where we can know with 100% certainty whether someone is guilty or not.

Do you support the death penalty for any crimes in this hypothetical? Or do you take the stance that the death penalty is a wrong form of punishment and life in prison should always be the worst punishment?

Edit: If you're a theist please explain if any religious beliefs factor into your choice.

[Man_With_A_Plan]

So, you believe that it is moral to require innocent third parties to be involuntarily forced to support convicted criminals?

I do!

What is the difference between that and the convicted criminals doing it themselves?

I'm not even sure what we're talking about lol.

I'm talking about innocent third parties being forced to involuntarily support convicted criminals. If the government can force innocent citizens to involuntarily pay for services provided to convicted criminals, then why can't convicted criminals just cut out the middle man and force innocent citizens to involuntarily provide them with services directly?

I don't think a human being's value is measured by crimes they've committed. Even if someone wants to assume that, then what about the fact that the definition of "convicted criminal" depends on the country? In some countries, a convicted criminal is one who is caught practicing an illegal religion. In Iran, it's illegal to go on a romantic date with someone. In Alabama, it's illegal to sell sex toys.

In other words, how can something as objective as a person's worth be determined by something as subjective as criminal status?

You might say that it depends on the nature of crime, but even then, people can't agree on "objectively bad" crimes, can they?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with requiring citizens to support convicted criminals. We live in society because we don't want to live like animals. Society is a luxury, but it comes with costs and responsibilities, and part of that responsibility is to take care of the ones who've made mistakes. I have no problem if some of my tax dollars go towards supporting criminals, and if it goes towards helping them form into functioning members of society, that's even better.

The only time I can ever possibly condone my society executing a criminal is if that criminal was guilty of something heinous and it was shown to be the best choice.

[bluethread]

In other words, how can something as objective as a person's worth be determined by something as subjective as criminal status?

Let's stop and test the premise of this question before we move on. If a person's worth is objective, one should be able to clearly state what that value is. So, what is the specific value of a human being?

[Man_With_A_Plan]

In other words, how can something as objective as a person's worth be determined by something as subjective as criminal status?

Let's stop and test the premise of this question before we move on. If a person's worth is objective, one should be able to clearly state what that value is. So, what is the specific value of a human being?

According to Wikipedia:

In industrial nations, the justice system considers a human life "priceless", thus illegalizing any form of slavery; i.e., humans cannot be bought for any price.

[Robert H]

[Replying to post 1 by jgh7]

You are all looking at it from the point of view of the murderer. I don't think anyone has mentioned the victim. The whole intent of law is to have JUSTICE. Is it right for someone to take a life of another. Can I come take your life and then expect to go on living while I have robbed you of yours - of which I can never fix or repay? Simply put, the murderer has lost his right to life because he took it from someone else. It's absolute nonsense to think he should go on living, even in a prison scene, while the victim is gone.

[Yahu]

In this world, we are able to know with 100% certainity whether someone is guilty of a crime or not. In this world, the process of going through with the death penalty is no less feasible than that of supporting a prisoner with a life sentence.

I am all for a death penalty. Let the punishment fit the crime. I am also for castration of rapists.

I helped get a woman involved in witchcraft convicted of her criminal activities. Her coven was distributing date rape drugs.

There was no doubt of her guilt. There was a recording of her admitting her guilt. Unfortunately it could not be used to convict her because I had not informed her I was recording our telephone conversation. The recording was used during the sentencing phase after she had been found guilty on only one charge.

The judge admitted he had always been anti death penalty but he had changed his mind. He could only convict her on one charge of sexual assualt for 5 years in prison but now he understood why witchcraft was punishable by burning at the stake in the past. If it was up to him, he would have gladly lit her bon-fire on the parade grounds himself to burn her at the stake. (It had been a military trial on March AFB.) The court room cheered when he said that.

She had also been guilty of treason but it couldn't be proven in the trial phase. They had to drop the charge. The tape recording was the only proof and it couldn't be used. The recording proved she was not only guilty of it but was the leader of those that committed treason. Others actually involved were convicted but she wasn't actually present for the events so it couldn't be proved in her trial. The others involved would not testify against her out of fear.

So instead of being in prison for another 35 years for the treason charge, she got out in only 5 years while many of her followers are still in prison now. A couple of them got 85 year sentences in federal prison.

The judge would have had to fight me for the privileged of lighting the fire to burn her at the stake. The treason committed had been the sabotage of a military aircraft my wife was a crew chief on. They had done it to get revenge against me for exposing their criminal activities. She was convicted of drugging my wife so she could be raped and got pregnant from that rape.

[ttruscott]

Your earthly hypothetical is a spiritual reality from the Christian pov.

Do you support the death penalty for any crimes in this hypothetical? Or do you take the stance that the death penalty is a wrong form of punishment and life in prison should always be the worst punishment?

Edit: If you're a theis please explain if any religious beliefs factor into your choice.

We are all probably eternally self and other aware spirits so death does not mean the end of existence, to me. I invite the new crew of recent JW's to mention and explain their position but not to bother with long winded arguments telling me where I'm going against the bible; I will not read them nor respond.

If true, then for humans death means the spirit leaves the body and goes to Sheol. The body dies which means it corrupts and decays but the person does not. The final death of the spirit is a separation from GOD's reality but not an end to existence. Death means separation - a separation from our bodies, from HIS created reality and from GOD. Thus the death sentence meaning an end to their existence is not available and we only have a life sentence of banishment to contain them.

Therefore I have no problem with removing criminals who have proven the eternal nature of their evil to be banished from their earthly bodies, from their GOD and from HIS created reality so that all reality is finally free of their sin. In fact, the definition of people as eternal and of some having chosen to be eternally evil necessitates their banishment as a life sentence to the outer darkness since we are taught that a little leaven (evil) leavens (corrupts) the whole lump (reality). By being banished from our reality, the whole lump becomes themselves as slowly growing more and more evil and full of hatred like a fire burning in them until the whole society within the outer darkness is nothing but evil with no good to be found.