Gun Control

Sender · Post by **Sender** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:10 pm

This topic of discussion should break down barriers we may otherwise have. I hope I am in the right forum.

What are your thoughts?

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:12 am

Freedom is so easily taken away by socialists. Why?

Why is the constitution so immutable until people possessing guns come up?

Because the people (comrade) could oppose their rights being taken away by totalitarian governments.

We should outlaw Michael Moore before we outlaw gun ownership. Both Columbine murderers and the little boy that shot and killed his elementary class classmate have ONE thing in common: Bad parents or no parents.

Outlaw bad parenting.

I no longer have guns in my house but I used them often as a child and my father owned many handguns, rifles and shotguns. Never in any angry thought I ever had as a young person, did the concept of killing someone with one of my father's guns ever enter my mind.

WHY?

Because my father's teachings filled my mind with RIGHT and WRONG.

If I was Charlton Heston I would have made Moore look like the idiot propagandist that he is.

I would have asked this reprobate Moore HOW these children of violence got that way. I would have proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that bad parents far and away are the reasons for violent acts.

Any juvenile hall employee or probation officer would show you the same facts.

Why attack honest people when the dishonest people are the ones raising these violent offenders in such staggering numbers.

Why do kids join gangs?????

To feel wanted and accepted. To feel a part of a "family" they don't have at "home."

Ask them.

Give me liberty and get Michael Moore moral-politics they hell out of here.

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:21 pm

Why is the constitution so immutable until people possessing guns come up?

You may be suprised to learn that the Constitution does not contain provisions for the individual right to keep and bear arms.

We should outlaw Michael Moore before we outlaw gun ownership.

Is anyone suggesting a ban on gun ownership in toto? How about a series of strict regulation and rules that would effectively keep guns out of the hands of children and reduce the availability of guns to criminals? Doesn't the constitution require that gun ownership be "well regulated"?

my father owned many handguns, rifles and shotguns.

And one gun owner I know who has two handguns and youngish children told me the last time I asked that he does not know where the guns are in his house.

Your father's atittude is to be admired, but since accidental shootings and murders by children are an actual, ongoing problem, shouldn't we do something about it?

DanZ (who owns an AK-47 and has 1000 rounds of 7.62x39)

The Persnickety Platypus · Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:51 pm

Outlaw bad parenting.

How do you suggest we accomplish this?

Employ a federal overseer to each family?
Install hidden cameras in everyone's living rooms?
Insert microchips in each parents brain that will dictate what they teach their children?
Develop a chemical that can reverse human nature?

I don't know about you, but banning handguns sounds a lot easier.

One thing I am not getting. Is there any particular reason a person needs to carry a full fledged assault weapon around with them? Besides the fact that they make a cool banging noise?

"Self protection" would be needless if no one else was allowed guns. "Fighting off an unruly government" (at the expense of thousands of civilian lives a year) is just rediculous.

Giving civilians unlimited access to guns is akin to handing out chainsaws to kindergardeners. Needless to say, someone is going to get hurt.

Approximately half the gun deaths in the US are suicide. Most suicides are spur of the moment decisions. One kid I know had his mother come in one night and berate him for expending his cell phone minutes and getting bad grades. There was a gun on the dresser. He shot himself. Permanent solution to a temporary problem.

There never should have been a gun on the dresser.

1John2_26 · Post by **1John2_26** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:29 pm

Quote:
Outlaw bad parenting.

How do you suggest we accomplish this?

Bad people don't kill people. The children of bad parents kill people.

Employ a federal overseer to each family?
Install hidden cameras in everyone's living rooms?
Insert microchips in each parents brain that will dictate what they teach their children?
Develop a chemical that can reverse human nature?

Every gun is held by a person. A person raised by bad parents. You want the inanimate object held responsible for the action of the human weilding it. That of course is nonsense but the liberal anti-gun nut never thinks logically. Lot's of crime out there. All have bad parents as the reason.

I don't know about you, but banning handguns sounds a lot easier.

Sound like taking away civil rights to me. Socialists seem to do this effortlessly.

One thing I am not getting. Is there any particular reason a person needs to carry a full fledged assault weapon around with them? Besides the fact that they make a cool banging noise?

How many lives would "assault rifles" have saved in African countries where the non-Muslim populations are shot to death in mountain high piles?

AIDS kills a lot of people. Shouyld we outlaw genitalia? It is the actual cause to the innocents dying?

"Self protection" would be needless if no one else was allowed guns. "Fighting off an unruly government" (at the expense of thousands of civilian lives a year) is just rediculous.

If everyone lived the Gospel. Until Christ rules earth guns are necessary to defend and fend off sociopaths and socialist totalitarian despots. Russia anyone?

Giving civilians unlimited access to guns is akin to handing out chainsaws to kindergardeners. Needless to say, someone is going to get hurt.

There are far too many laws already in place NOT being put into effect for whatever reason. How many bad children are set free after comitting violent crimes. The problem is liberals that see criminals as victims and not criminals. Lock up bad parents and crime ends overnight.

Approximately half the gun deaths in the US are suicide. Most suicides are spur of the moment decisions. One kid I know had his mother come in one night and berate him for expending his cell phone minutes and getting bad grades. There was a gun on the dresser. He shot himself. Permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Bad parent.

There never should have been a gun on the dresser.

Bad parent.

My father spanked me twice. I thought not to kill myself even once. There was more going on in the poor kids mind than his mom berating his cell phone bill.

I am supportive of restrictions on WHO owns a gun.

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:55 pm

BTW, 1 john, what use (except hunting) is a firearm to a supposed christian?

DanZ

The Persnickety Platypus · Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:05 pm

Bad people don't kill people. The children of bad parents kill people.

The question remains the same. How do you get rid of bad parents? How can you tell which prospective parents are going to be bad ones?

Every gun is held by a person. A person raised by bad parents. You want the inanimate object held responsible for the action of the human weilding it.

I want to take the chainsaws out of the hands of kindergardeners, so to speak. Makes a lot more sense than getting rid of the kindergardeners.

A bad kid is a bad kid. A bad kid with a gun is a very DANGEROUS bad kid.

There are not many practical ways to prevent a kid from becomming bad, but there IS a practical way to making him less dangerous.

Sound like taking away civil rights to me. Socialists seem to do this effortlessly.

How carrying a dangerous killing weapon in public places somehow became a "civil right", I will never know.

Some rights must be abolished. As I have mentioned many times before, the right to screw over a fellow human being in the name of capitalism, and wallow in wealth while others are suffering, are rights that NO ONE is entitled to. Likewise, the right to wield a full fledged assault weapon should be entitled to no one, besides those whose job requires one.

In America freedom of ANY KIND is considered good, by rule of thumb. Our lawmakers sure could use a few lessons on building fair, orderly societys.

How many lives would "assault rifles" have saved in African countries where the non-Muslim populations are shot to death in mountain high piles?

I am pretty sure that our country is not currently undergoing mass genocide.

The Persnickety Platypus · Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:17 pm

Bad people don't kill people. The children of bad parents kill people.

The question remains the same. How do you get rid of bad parents? How can you tell which prospective parents are going to be bad ones?

Every gun is held by a person. A person raised by bad parents. You want the inanimate object held responsible for the action of the human weilding it.

I want to take the chainsaws out of the hands of kindergardeners, so to speak. Makes a lot more sense than getting rid of the kindergardeners.

A bad kid is a bad kid. A bad kid with a gun is a very DANGEROUS bad kid.

There are not many practical ways to prevent a kid from becomming bad, but there IS a practical way to making him less dangerous.

Sound like taking away civil rights to me. Socialists seem to do this effortlessly.

How carrying a dangerous killing weapon in public places somehow became a "civil right", I will never know.

Some rights must be abolished. As I have mentioned many times before, the right to screw over a fellow human being in the name of capitalism, and wallow in wealth while others are suffering, are rights that NO ONE is entitled to. Likewise, the right to wield a full fledged assault weapon should be entitled to no one, besides those whose job requires one.

In America freedom of ANY KIND is considered good, by rule of thumb. Our lawmakers sure could use a few lessons on building fair, orderly societys.

How many lives would "assault rifles" have saved in African countries where the non-Muslim populations are shot to death in mountain high piles?

I am pretty sure that our country is not currently undergoing mass genocide.

I do not know anyone who has been attacked recently. But if they were, it was with the help of an assault weapon.

AIDS kills a lot of people. Shouyld we outlaw genitalia? It is the actual cause to the innocents dying?

And we can't outlaw HIV either, so I am pretty sure that this does not apply.

If everyone lived the Gospel. Until Christ rules earth guns are necessary to defend and fend off sociopaths and socialist totalitarian despots. Russia anyone?

Strange, I have not heard of any such socialist/sociopath totalitarian assaults in the news lately. Not even in gun-phobic Europe.

It is rediculous to support guns on the basis that we could be invaded by an evil political faction. If such a movement can get past the checks and balances system (not to mention the U.S. military), I don't think farmer joe and his little handgun are going to make much of a difference.

I am supportive of restrictions on WHO owns a gun.

So am I. Everyone except police officers.

This would not necissarily apply to rifles (or at least not to the same extent). But to echo Juliod's query, there is absolutely no reason for anyone to be walking the streets wielding a weapon.

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:20 pm

The question remains the same. How do you get rid of bad parents? How can you tell which prospective parents are going to be bad ones?

And the followup question is what do we do in the meantime? Is the level of gun violence in the US acceptable simply because we have no way at the current time to deal with what you think is the root cause? Does that mean we should do nothing?

Everyone except police officers.

Bzzzt. Not with you here. The cops commit, what, ten times the rate of violent crimes compared to the general population? I believe that private gun ownership is one of the things that keeps the cops in check. In the current climate we could easily slip into a police state, with 50% of the country rooting them on.

The problem as I see it is that gun ownership in the US is heavily slanted toward the fascists.

We need a system to limit gun ownership to the responsible community (i.e. liberals) and keep guns out of the hands of the insane, criminals, and the congenitally irresponsible (i.e. conservatives).

DanZ

The Persnickety Platypus · Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:53 pm

Bzzzt. Not with you here. The cops commit, what, ten times the rate of violent crimes compared to the general population?

Um, how do you figure?

I believe that private gun ownership is one of the things that keeps the cops in check. In the current climate we could easily slip into a police state...

Seriously, are you guys really that paranoid? The US justice system is pretty screwed up, no doubt, but it is still pretty stable.

As many things that are wrong with America, I do not think we are under any imminent threat of a sudden violent fascist/communist/nazi/police political coup.

Public gun ownership keeps the cops in check? Sure, it keeps them from doing their job. How many innocent officers are killed every year in shootouts? A lot more than I want to count.

I am in no way a big fan of the police force. I think that cops are given way more enforcement power than is needed concerning many issues.

But that does not mean I would not trust a cop with a gun. Now Jim Bob over there I am not so sure about...

juliod · Post by **juliod** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:50 pm

Um, how do you figure?

Cops commit violent crimes far more often than the general population. I don't have any statistics, but I remember reading it was about ten times higher on a per capita basis. Searching on the net for it is hopeless, and it's not a statistic people like to publicize.

Combined with the well publicized cases of brutality, and the fact that they always staunchly defend other cops, means that I don't trust the cops at all.

The US justice system is pretty screwed up, no doubt, but it is still pretty stable.

Stable, yes, but moving retrograde fast. When I was in school we were told that in the US no one could be held without charge or trial. Oops, now they can.

And I do think cops would be a lot more aggresive if there where much less chance that the people around them were armed.

As many things that are wrong with America, I do not think we are under any imminent threat of a sudden violent fascist/communist/nazi/police political coup.

And I think we are in the phase of "they came for the jews and I did nothing".

How many innocent officers are killed every year in shootouts? A lot more than I want to count.

Yes. But that's a case for the regulation of guns to keep them out of the hands of criminals and the insane. A program of regulation and licensing would greatly reduce gun crime.

But that does not mean I would not trust a cop with a gun.

I don't trust the training of cops either. There are too many examples of mistaken and unnecessary shootings. And the use of paramilitary police ("SWAT" teams) is out of control.

DanZ