Are sins equal?

[Princess Luna On The Moon]

I'm an Atheist, but I've always been curious about the idea of sin. The bible mentions things like murder, theft, hypocrisy, homosexuality, dishonesty, adultery, and coveting to name a few specifics. Would all of these be considered the same in the eyes of god, or are some worse? If so, why? Also, why are some of these considered 'sins' in the first place, like homosexuality?

[ttruscott]

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You didn't answer the question. What happens to them if they really never knew?

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Christians have no problem with this question as the gospel, the good news of the possibility of our salvation from the addicting qualities of evil and the condemnation upon evil in Christ was proclaimed (past tense) to every person under heaven: Colossians 1:23 ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven...

And all humans are without excuse of any kind before HIM because HE HAS PROVEN HIS DIVINITY AND POWER in the creation of the physical universe: Romans 1:20 For since [from, by as of the origin of a cause] the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

The fact that sinners repress this from their minds for their love for sin as per the rest of Romans 1 is immaterial - all are without excuse for their rejection the gospel they clearly heard.

Peace, Ted

[jerryxplu]

[Replying to post 21 by ttruscott]

if that's the case then I really hate the missionary that goes around preaching the gospel to tribal folks. Problem with the gospel is that work doesn't really matter as much as faith. You can be a kind good person doing good deeds your whole life and yet be send to hell when you die because you don't believe Jesus. Free will is a joke in the bible. The pharaoh wanted to let the people go (Jews) but God harden their heart. Unless you are trying to say your will is equal to that of God then sure. But otherwise your will mean nothing in eyes of God as long as he feel he should remove your will.

[OnceConvinced]

the idea of "Sin" is pretty much according to my research and various debate with different religious groups especially Christian. Any act or thoughts that does not please God or pretty much what God does not approve of.

Pretty much so. In other words if you do something that pisses God off then you're doomed. Doesn't matter how bad it is. It could be genocide or it could be a little bit of envy. Both are going to piss off God and result in you being barbequed.

Actually one can go a step further with this. The only way we can be forgiven is through Jesus's death on the cross. We have to repent and acknowledge that death before we will be forgiven and rescued from being barbequed.

Just repenting on its own is not enough though. It has to be to the God of the bible. Repenting to Allah isn't going to cut it. Nor is repenting to Buddah. We actually have to acknowledge Jesus as our savior otherwise we're doomed.

So when it comes down to it the only thing that matters is whether we've acknowledged Jesus's death. We could be a serial killer, but as long as we acknowledge Christ, that's all that matters. No matter what else we've done, rejecting Christ is the only thing that we can't be forgiven for. God's ego just wouldn't be able to handle that. So the only real sin is rejecting Jesus Christ. That will really piss God off big time and there will be no mercy coming your way then.

[wiploc]

I'm an Atheist, but I've always been curious about the idea of sin.

Don't conflate sin and evil. Evil (anything that causes unhappiness) is the punishment for sin (doubting or disobeying god).

It's easy to confuse them, because some sins are moral evils. Gluttony, for instance, is not only disobedient, but it can also make people unhappy.

The bible mentions things like murder, theft, hypocrisy, homosexuality, dishonesty, adultery, and coveting to name a few specifics. Would all of these be considered the same in the eyes of god, or are some worse? If so, why?

You can think of some as worse than others, but any one of them makes you flawed, beneath the perfection of god, unworthy to enter into god's presence in Heaven. So you can also think of all sins as equal, because they all have the same effect on your afterlife.

Also, why are some of these considered 'sins' in the first place, like homosexuality?

"Doubt or disobedience," is sin, and here you are questioning, doubting. You must be a reprobate (Hellbound). I'm joshing you, of course---but that is how Calvin (not the Calvin from Calvin and Hobbs) argued.

Some will say that sin is anything god doesn't like. I can't make that work. It leads to contradiction.

Consider a reprobate (one who is not chosen, is not one of the elect) who tries to behave well. God doesn't want reprobates behaving well, so he "darkens their counsels and strengthens their wills." That is, he makes them too stupid and impulsive to be able to behave well, so that they have to go back to sinning.

If you define sin as "what god doesn't want you to do," then the reprobates are being virtuous when they behave badly, and sinful when they behave well. That's kinda nuts. So that definition of sin doesn't work.

Note that if we're using the "doubt and disobedience" definition, doubt is supposed to be the greater part. The first sin wasn't when Eve bit the apple; it was before that, when she entertained the serpent's argument, when she questioned whether god had her best interests in mind when he forbade eating the apple.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 21 by ttruscott]

if that's the case then I really hate the missionary that goes around preaching the gospel to tribal folks. Problem with the gospel is that work doesn't really matter as much as faith.

The same process we went thru in sheol pre-earth is how we realize our faith and are redeemed on earth. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the preaching of the gospel...no one knows who will hear on earth and be reborn so we preach to all.

You can be a kind good person doing good deeds your whole life and yet be send to hell when you die because you don't believe Jesus.

This is an anti-Christian statement so will be ignored as a strawman... no one is good in Christian reality, eh?

Free will is a joke in the bible. The pharaoh wanted to let the people go (Jews) but God harden their heart.

Yes right, poor Pharaoh was trying so so hard to be nice to Moses and let him go but that nasty YHWH just made him hate Moses and attack him...nope. Not likely at all.

Pharaoh wanted to attack Moses and when he was too afraid to do what he wanted, all YHWH had to do to harden his heart was to take away HIS restraint that held back Pharaoh's sin so he would do what he wanted and not be afraid.

Peace, Ted

[jerryxplu]

[Replying to post 25 by ttruscott]

not sure what you talking about on the first one so I will skip that.
Is it not true that no matter how good of a person you are, you will be in hell if you reject Christianity? Not saying there are no good Christians but saying it make no sense to me. As for the Pharaoh, enslaving of people regardless of ethnic group is wrong in my book. I am saying that God is capable of changing the free will of people yes especially if it is for his big plan. Or are you saying that God can not mess with free will of men even if it is essential for his big plan?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 25 by ttruscott]

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Is it not true that no matter how good of a person you are, you will be in hell if you reject Christianity?

It is true that if you (the generic you) have never chosen by your free will to put your faith in Christ, your life on earth will not change your destiny. Our goodness on earth measures nothing.

Not saying there are no good Christians but saying it make no sense to me.

Most Christians accept that no one is good until after they are reborn in Christ and sanctified unto righteous holiness by discipline. These die off pretty quick as their time here is usually done so not many folks get to meet real saints.

As for the Pharaoh, enslaving of people regardless of ethnic group is wrong in my book. I am saying that God is capable of changing the free will of people yes especially if it is for his big plan. Or are you saying that God can not mess with free will of men even if it is essential for his big plan?

GOD does not interfere with the free will choice of anyone. No sinner has free will but is enslaved to sin so until one of HIS sinful elect is reborn and cured of his addiction, he has no free will either. Everyone on earth gets to live out their free will choices which they made by faith before they were born on earth. When GOD opposes someone He is not opposing their free will decision but only their sinful decisions, which is a good thing.

HIS big plan only works if HE allows a free will choice to accept or reject HIM. Once (generic) you reject HIM as GOD you become enslaved to sin and evil so you have no free will left to accept HIM some other time. When the reprobate learned the truth of HIS divinity and power they tried to choose HIM but it was only from fear of the consequences, not from a real desire that HE was their GOD. Thus they are eternally evil and doomed.

Peace, Ted

[jerryxplu]

[Replying to post 27 by ttruscott]

Are you saying that once you reject him you are slave to sin and therefore God can do whatever he wants?

[Beans]

[Replying to post 27 by ttruscott]

Are you saying that once you reject him you are slave to sin and therefore God can do whatever he wants?

Hi ttruscott, thought I would jump my 2 cents in here.

The deal is that it takes knowledge to guide our sense of right and wrong and without that knowledge we destroy ourselves anyway. Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

Do you believe it would be fair that God allow life to those who would ignore knowledge so that they could can continue a harmful course, injuring not only themselves but also corrupting others to join them in their harmful ways?

I was awakened from my sleep last night to do some Bible reading and what I learned relates to this thread.

1 John 5: 16-17 "If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."

I used to read the above verses and think it meant we can sin and yet be saved. Last night I realized how errant my understanding of those verses was.

John's point is that some sin is able to be forgiven and some not.

The sin which cannot be forgiven is willful sin where we deliberately choose in our self to ignore God's commandment and feelings on the matter. We have the spirit on God's word when we have that knowledge. And when we play false to that spirit, like Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, we are in effect disregarding the Holy Spirit which enlightened us to have that understanding.

So it is not the specific sin which determines whether it is unto death or can be forgiven but the attitude of heart the sin was done with.

This is important because all or any sin is the Devil's work and if we keep it alive by continuing in sin, then we are not only grieving the Holy Spirit but also working against Jesus. Notice that, as follows:

1 John 3:6=9
6 "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

How do you suppose, "his seed remaineth in him", as 1 John 3: 9 said?

I have discovered that seed is the word of God which is sown to men's hearts. And Paul tells us why that seed does not remain in many to keep them from sinning. Ponder that at Romans 1: 17-32.

I think verse 28 says it particularly well: Romans 1: 28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

Forgetfulness also is why so many of Israel sinned, as seen in Psalms chapters 78 and 106.

Psalms 103:17-18
17 "But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them."

David speaks hundreds of times in the Psalms concerning our need to remember that seed of knowledge of God which we have been helped to see by his powerful spirit upon his works and his judgments, his word, which Jesus embodied.

[The Ghetto Smoker Lady]

[Replying to post 1 by Princess Luna On The Moon]

Some people have the idea of the Seven Deadly Sins. If you haven't heard of them, their title shows that 7 sins (gluttony, wrath, sloth, lust, pride, greed, and envy) are the worst of sins. But living in a christian family and having discussed these "sins" with them, they mentioned how ALL sins are equal and none are worse than another. Implying that sins are a real morality count, this is quite bad saying that doing something as simple as saying a lie (which we all do as little kids at one point) means we will apparently burn in hell if we don't repent. So answering your question, no, no sins are worse than others.