Would you worship an evil God?

[Jake]

I've heard atheists such as Matt Dillahunty (whom I greatly admire) claim that if they believed in the God of the Bible, who is obviously bloodthirsty and malevolent in many cases, they would refuse to worship him. But wouldn't you do anything to avoid eternal torment? Do any of you honestly claim that you would go to Hell before bowing to an evil God? If Hell were simply a place without God, as it is often described, that would be a different matter. But assuming Hell is a place of infinite pain, who would honestly let themselves be sent there? Even if you had to sacrifice your own child, wouldn't you obey God to avoid ultimate suffering?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 12 by The Me's]

Mental health professionals usually define hearing voices as a symptom of mental illness. Many people who hear voices are able to live with them and may consider them a positive part of their lives. Hearing a voice when no-one is present with you, or which other people with you cannot hear, is considered to be a hallucination.

The basis for this post is a deplorable anti-religious premise: that people who hear God's voice MUST by default be crazy.

I'll leave that aside for a moment.

Your response also "assumes" that God doesn't exist and that he doesn't have a voice that can be heard. You and I both know that you've never taken the time to prove these claims, so I have to wonder why you'd try to pass them off as the truth?

Let's make it easy for you:

I personally have heard God's voice both intuitively and audibly. I invite you to demonstrate that I'm crazy, that I hallucinated, or that I have some other issue that prevents me from realizing that it just didn't happen. If you can't, I hope you're willing to retract your claim.

If you won't even try, I hope you have the decency to admit that your premise is based on intentionally inflicted ignorance.

Does everyone who thinks they are hearing God's voice actually hearing his voice?

[The Me's]

Does everyone who thinks they are hearing God's voice actually hearing his voice?

I'm not sure I can speak for anyone else.

I assume, based on what I've been told, that God's preference is to speak to us intuitively through his spirit. This is the core of our relationship with him, the intimacy involved in this internal exchange, and most Christians that I've talked to about it find it to be exactly the same experience as described by Paul when he said, "but the Holy Spirit prays for us with such sighs that cannot be expressed in words."

[postroad]

Does everyone who thinks they are hearing God's voice actually hearing his voice?

I'm not sure I can speak for anyone else.

I assume, based on what I've been told, that God's preference is to speak to us intuitively through his spirit. This is the core of our relationship with him, the intimacy involved in this internal exchange, and most Christians that I've talked to about it find it to be exactly the same experience as described by Paul when he said, "but the Holy Spirit prays for us with such sighs that cannot be expressed in words."

I was just thinking about this text.


1 John 4:1-3

New International Version (NIV)


On Denying the Incarnation

4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.


And further in the text which seems to indicate that there had been a schism in the Church over the nature of Christ.


1 John 2:18-19

New International Version (NIV)


Warnings Against Denying the Son

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 1 by Jake]

But wouldn't you do anything to avoid eternal torment?

I anyone would

Do any of you honestly claim that you would go to Hell before bowing to an evil God?

Claiming to do this, and doing it are two different things. Claiming to do this? Most would say YES. Actually do this?

...assuming Hell is a place of infinite pain, who would honestly let themselves be sent there?

No sane person

Even if you had to sacrifice your own child, wouldn't you obey God to avoid ultimate suffering?

Intent and action. Most would say NO they wouldn't sacrifice their child (those many do this for less today) but when it comes down to it, the only unconditional love on this planet comes from dogs

So yes, people would, by the vast majority (99.9% maybe?) worship an evil deity to avoid eternal punishment. This is likely why the church teaches guilt and fear to its followers - what better way to gain influence and money?

It's likely the best scam in human history.

[Wissing]

I'd like to know why this question is being asked in the first place. It must be that the misdeeds of God-worshipers have spurred this question. That worshipping an evil God is a cause of real world problems, and non-theists are demanding answers to fix this problem. Personally, I have not seen this trend. I've heard things on the news and in books, sure - but it would be interesting to hear someone's personal experience. Perhaps that would give some insight into A) why the problem exists, and B) how I can do my part to fix it.

Also, for tenability's sake, let's limit the scope to Christians, not other religious people. If our God is evil, how has our worship negatively impacted you?

[connermt]

[Replying to post 25 by Wissing]

If our God is evil, how has our worship negatively impacted you?

A good question.
I would also like to ask the flip side, as it were: how does how one lives their life negatively impact your worship?

[Goat]

Also, for tenability's sake, let's limit the scope to Christians, not other religious people. If our God is evil, how has our worship negatively impacted you?

Now, if a God is evil, it all depends on HOW that God is worshiped, doesn't it? I mean, the altar to human sacrifice in my neighbors back yard will negatively effect my property value. .. or even if it is to barn yard animals.

Now, most religions are not merely worship. They are quite often a way of life, and sometimes, or quite often, people will want to use force of law to restrict other people's behavior. That is what caused prohibition, which then caused a huge increase of mob rule in response.. and created a black market for the consumption of alcohol.

It was religious motivation to have the 'war on drugs'. That created a huge black market for drugs, and helped create the drug cartels , mob violence, and very dangerous designer drugs to get around the laws.

[Wootah]

He endorses slavery, accepts human sacrifice, promotes homophobia, and kills many people. All of these I would categorize as morally reprehensible. However I would still worship such a God if it meant I could avoid Hell.

But it makes no sense worshipping an evil God because their promises wouldn't be true. There would be no avoiding hell at all if God is evil and definitely no heaven for anyone if God was evil.

- no he doesn't endorse slavery. He thinks slavery is awful and would prefer that we didn't become slaves to our idols.

- no he doesn't accept human sacrifice. Jesus is God rescuing us.

- no I have never met a Christian with a phobia of homosexuals.

- I have never read in the Bible a story about God killing good people.

[postroad]

There

He endorses slavery, accepts human sacrifice, promotes homophobia, and kills many people. All of these I would categorize as morally reprehensible. However I would still worship such a God if it meant I could avoid Hell.

But it makes no sense worshipping an evil God because their promises wouldn't be true. There would be no avoiding hell at all if God is evil and definitely no heaven for anyone if God was evil.

- no he doesn't endorse slavery. He thinks slavery is awful and would prefer that we didn't become slaves to our idols.

- no he doesn't accept human sacrifice. Jesus is God rescuing us.

- no I have never met a Christian with a phobia of homosexuals.

- I have never read in the Bible a story about God killing good people.

Could you define good?

15.2 Kings 23:25
Neither before nor after Josiah was there a king like him who turned to the Lord as he did—with all his heart and with all his soul and with all his strength, in accordance with all the Law of Moses.

16.2 Kings 23:29
While Josiah was king, Pharaoh Necho king of Egypt went up to the Euphrates River to help the king of Assyria. King Josiah marched out to meet him in battle, but Necho faced him and killed him at Megiddo.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 29 by postroad]

Good is that which is morally right.

(Your kings reference are lost on me right now.)