Forgiveness is true love

[arunangelo]

Forgiveness is true love because in forgiving we not only give up the claims we have over our offenders but also sacrifice our own interest in the process of bringing healing to our offenders. In God we see the fullness of forgiving love. Although God is the king of Universe and infinite in power, He humbled Himself to become a mere human being in the person of Jesus. In doing this He surrendered His will by subjecting Himself to human conditions of a sinful world. Furthermore, although we offered Him no love, betrayed Him, were unfaithful to Him and hurt Him by our sins, He sacrificed His life while suffering the most brutal torture, in order to free us from sin. In other words, He the victim compensated for the hurt we caused Him by sacrificing His own life. In doing this He stayed faithful to His covenant and showed us what true love is. If we want to follow Him we must love one another the way He loved us (John 15:12).

[arunangelo]

That's not true forgiveness.

Moving the goal posts a bit, are we? Not forgiveness at all, but true forgiveness. Okay, so only true forgiveness is true love.

God has forgiven all your sins. It is now upto you to accept that forgiveness by being sorry for your sins.

Why? Is god's forgiveness . . . err, true forgiveness, a conditional one? If so it certainly doesn't sound like the true forgiveness you describe. God wouldn't be sacrificing his interest* in getting our acceptance. So again, why? Why is it necessary to "accept that forgiveness by being sorry for your sins"?


*As you pointed out in Post #11

You have a free will to accept or reject His free gift.

It wasn't a "how" question, but a"why" one.
Why is it necessary to "accept that forgiveness by being sorry for your sins"?

Forgiveness has two parts. The one who is hurt has to write off the offense-which God has done. The offender has to be healed of the weakess that caused him to hurt the victim. The latter needs being sorry.

[arunangelo]

Please show that there is such a thing a 'free will'.

To reply to my posting is a choice. That shows you have a free will.

You are mistaken. To reply to your post is a choice. That shows that goat has will. Now show that it is free.

A goat can not reply to my post

Please show that there is a 'gift' of 'God's forgiveness', other than unsupported claims from religious promotional material.

Forgiveness bring healing. There are many instances of people who were criminals who received this healing and changed their lives for the better.

People change their lives for various reasons. Please show that the changes you make reference to come as a gift from God, not merely from a belief in a God.

Belief in God it self is a gift from God. When we believe in God we hear His voice and change our heart for the good.

[McCulloch]

Please show that there is such a thing a 'free will'.

To reply to my posting is a choice. That shows you have a free will.

You are mistaken. To reply to your post is a choice. That shows that goat has will. Now show that it is free.

A goat can not reply to my post

No, a goat lacks the manual dexterity, cognitive function nor language to respond to your post.
The person with the username goat has chosen to reply to your post. You have asserted that this action demonstrates free will. However, in reality, it only demonstrates will. Please demonstrate that this person's will is free.

Please show that there is a 'gift' of 'God's forgiveness', other than unsupported claims from religious promotional material.

People change their lives for various reasons. Please show that the changes you make reference to come as a gift from God, not merely from a belief in a God.

Belief in God it self is a gift from God.

How do you know that?

When we believe in God we hear His voice and change our heart for the good.

How does that work? First you come to believe in God and then you imagine that you hear his voice OR you hear his voice and based on that, come to believe in God?

[Compassionist]

When we believe in God we hear His voice and change our heart for the good.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." - John 10:27

Pehaps the above verse is what you are talking about? You didn't address my point about God being either imaginary or evil given the existence of suffering. Please address it. Thank you.

[Miles]

Forgiveness has two parts. The one who is hurt has to write off the offense-which God has done. The offender has to be healed of the weakess that caused him to hurt the victim. The latter needs being sorry.

So then your "true forgiveness" only works if the forgiven admits to being sorry; a conditional forgiveness. "I'll forgive you, but it doesn't really meaning anything UNLESS you do X." As I pointed out once already in post #13, such conditional forgiveness flies in the face of your claim that "true forgiveness" is a sacrifice of "our own interest in the process of helping those who betray us." If we retain an expectation of "Sorry," which would be an " own interest," we are not sacrificing it.

In one place you in effect say, nothing is expected in return for forgiveness to take effect.

And in the other you now say, something IS expected in return for forgiveness to take effect: your heartfelt sorrow for acting as you did. Not sorry? Then no forgiveness for you. And this is suppose to be the "true love" forgiveness of your god? Excuse me if I stick to godless, old fashioned, unconditional forgiveness. I find it far more admirable and worthy of emulation.

[Compassionist]

Forgiveness has two parts. The one who is hurt has to write off the offense-which God has done. The offender has to be healed of the weakess that caused him to hurt the victim. The latter needs being sorry.

So then your "true forgiveness" only works if the forgiven admits to being sorry; a conditional forgiveness. "I'll forgive you, but it doesn't really meaning anything UNLESS you do X." As I pointed out once already in post #13, such conditional forgiveness flies in the face of your claim that "true forgiveness" is a sacrifice of "our own interest in the process of helping those who betray us." If we retain an expectation of "Sorry," which would be an " own interest," we are not sacrificing it.

In one place you in effect say, nothing is expected in return for forgiveness to take effect.

And in the other you now say, something IS expected in return for forgiveness to take effect: your heartfelt sorrow for acting as you did. Not sorry? Then no forgiveness for you. And this is suppose to be the "true love" forgiveness of your god? Excuse me if I stick to godless, old fashioned, unconditional forgiveness. I find it far more admirable and worthy of emulation.

Well put Miles. I totally agree with you about unconditional forgiveness and unconditional love. This is much better than the faith-based constructs which sell conditional love and conditional forgiveness in return for our blind faith and donations.

[Zenad]

Forgiveness is true love because in forgiving we not only give up the claims we have over our offenders but also sacrifice our own interest in the process of bringing healing to our offenders. In God we see the fullness of forgiving love. Although God is the king of Universe and infinite in power, He humbled Himself to become a mere human being in the person of Jesus. In doing this He surrendered His will by subjecting Himself to human conditions of a sinful world. Furthermore, although we offered Him no love, betrayed Him, were unfaithful to Him and hurt Him by our sins, He sacrificed His life while suffering the most brutal torture, in order to free us from sin. In other words, He the victim compensated for the hurt we caused Him by sacrificing His own life. In doing this He stayed faithful to His covenant and showed us what true love is. If we want to follow Him we must love one another the way He loved us (John 15:12).

This believe encourages people to be irresponsible in what they do and how they behave. So, they have been forgiven which allows them to kill and fornicate steal and destroy other people countries without any fears of punishment in someday after death , really, God does not distinguishs between who is doing all kind of sins and who is doing good deeds and he loves them equally once they believe that He (God) had sacrificed himself to offered to himself the punishment of all the mankind to please himself because the punishment must be taken even from someone who has nothing to do with those sins, so basically He's playing with himself or He has some Bigger God to please.

I mean wake up, Are you really convinced with these ideals anymore.

look bro, Its hard to change a believe and am not asking you to change your faith or anything, all am saying is have a chance to studying other religions an see how it goes and pray God to guide you to the right path instead of binding your eyes and following others blindly.

I hop you accept this little advice from a brother and this is for Everybody in this forum.

THANKS

[Veritas4God]

This is totally off topic, but I'm pretty sure some you here are Christians. Do you have any idea how to get into the Holy Huddle room site? I'm a Christian as well, and I wanted to get and give some encouragement from and to the other believers. How?

[JoeyKnothead]

This is totally off topic, but I'm pretty sure some you here are Christians. Do you have any idea how to get into the Holy Huddle room site? I'm a Christian as well, and I wanted to get and give some encouragement from and to the other believers. How?

You need to sign up as a Christian at the usergroups page, then you can post in Holy Huddle:

Christian Usergroup: