Why I converted to Islam

[mobkem]

See
Why He converted to Islam



I hope that you will enjoy the story

[Wyvern]

Thats what Im asking, you said you showed error of Mobkem, can you please show wat error is that? and wat was the reason that you showed the list of wives of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from my article and using my name?

Okay I will spell this out so simply even you can not misunderstand unless you do it deliberatly.

Otseng claimed Mohammed was a polygamist
Mobkem denied this claim
Wyvern pasted a list of the wives of Mohammed
TrueReligion is the source used for the list of wives

A good debator cites their sources which is why your name was mentioned and is the only connection you have to this comment at all. Why you got so defensive about this subject is beyond me other than you are combative whenever anyone mentions your prophets name.

I think you can;t understand, where does Mobkem deny that Muhammad (pbuh) is polygamist? can you show me please rather than arguing without knowing?

Thank you for confirming you are being deliberately obtuse. If you can't figure it out on your own no amount of help from me is going to get through to you.

No need for runing away Wyvern once lost, you claim something, now prove it as well also, making personal remarks is not good, so be brave and bring something to support your claims.

I can not show you if you refuse to look. Review the thread. Why is it you insist on turning nonarguments into arguments?

[TrueReligion]

Thats what Im asking, you said you showed error of Mobkem, can you please show wat error is that? and wat was the reason that you showed the list of wives of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from my article and using my name?

Okay I will spell this out so simply even you can not misunderstand unless you do it deliberatly.

Otseng claimed Mohammed was a polygamist
Mobkem denied this claim
Wyvern pasted a list of the wives of Mohammed
TrueReligion is the source used for the list of wives

A good debator cites their sources which is why your name was mentioned and is the only connection you have to this comment at all. Why you got so defensive about this subject is beyond me other than you are combative whenever anyone mentions your prophets name.

I think you can;t understand, where does Mobkem deny that Muhammad (pbuh) is polygamist? can you show me please rather than arguing without knowing?

Thank you for confirming you are being deliberately obtuse. If you can't figure it out on your own no amount of help from me is going to get through to you.

No need for runing away Wyvern once lost, you claim something, now prove it as well also, making personal remarks is not good, so be brave and bring something to support your claims.

I can not show you if you refuse to look. Review the thread. Why is it you insist on turning nonarguments into arguments?

You claim in all the posts, that Mobkem made error, and you showed him the error, now tell us please what is the error if you can;t show it, means you lost this debate as well

[Cathar1950]

Now that we have established that Mohamed was a polygamist we can move on?

Ah well if you start with the presumption you need to be saved from hell this will dictate your decisions. Maybe Islam is the better answer to the problem hell poses. But then why that presumption at all? Because you learnt it from Christianity? Maybe you should be applying some of that energy and intelligence you have to challenging your basic presumptions instead of seeking out belief systems that repeat the presumptions of the Judeo-Christian system you now reject.

I tried to make the same point as FB.
He had a problem with wanting to be saved from hell, he presumes hell of course, and he didn't feel the Judeo-Christian positions were inadequate.
Of course Mohamed seems to have got much of his ideas from Jews and Christians.
It is a bringing toghether of Pagan, Jewish and Christian myth and traditions much as the Jewish religion is made from Pagan elements and Christianity from both Pagan and Jewish traditions and myth.

I don't see the Jewish religions as one that saves you from hell and Pauline Christianity as the source of the Christian concepts.

I recall growing up a Bible believer and assuming the Bible is God's Word and everything it says was true. But Christians today read their theology into the Bible making the Bible a secondary source.

I recall seeing problems in Christianity and looked for answers in Judaism. After all Jesus was a Jew and if we want to be like Jesus...
I presumed the Bible to be right just like those that read a passage and say see if you believe you must believe the Bible and what is says as if what it says must be true and it must have all the answers...

After years of reading and learning how the writings were transmitted and selected I realized there just wasn't one true message in the Bible or just one way despite some claims some writings made. Inspired or not the writing were all to human. So of the writings were even forgeries.

This guy wants certainty.

[TrueReligion]

I tried to make the same point as FB.
He had a problem with wanting to be saved from hell, he presumes hell of course, and he didn't feel the Judeo-Christian positions were inadequate.
Of course Mohamed seems to have got much of his ideas from Jews and Christians.

This point is not valid, as its proven from history and records, that the time of advent of Islam, Mecca was not at all influenced by Jews and Christians

It is a bringing toghether of Pagan, Jewish and Christian myth and traditions much as the Jewish religion is made from Pagan elements and Christianity from both Pagan and Jewish traditions and myth.

Another wrong assertion, as the teachings given by Islam, are totaly opposite of Pagans, so your point is again invalid.

I don't see the Jewish religions as one that saves you from hell and Pauline Christianity as the source of the Christian concepts.

I recall growing up a Bible believer and assuming the Bible is God's Word and everything it says was true. But Christians today read their theology into the Bible making the Bible a secondary source.

If Bible is God's word, why so many versions and contradictions?

I recall seeing problems in Christianity and looked for answers in Judaism. After all Jesus was a Jew and if we want to be like Jesus...
I presumed the Bible to be right just like those that read a passage and say see if you believe you must believe the Bible and what is says as if what it says must be true and it must have all the answers...

After years of reading and learning how the writings were transmitted and selected I realized there just wasn't one true message in the Bible or just one way despite some claims some writings made. Inspired or not the writing were all to human. So of the writings were even forgeries.

This guy wants certainty.

What I see from your statements Sir, that you are not convinced from Bible teachings, as well as of Jews teachings, but you source of are uncertain what's the source of teachings given by Muhammad. If I'am wrong, please correct me so I can move forward with explanation.

[Cathar1950]

I tried to make the same point as FB.
He had a problem with wanting to be saved from hell, he presumes hell of course, and he didn't feel the Judeo-Christian positions were inadequate.
Of course Mohamed seems to have got much of his ideas from Jews and Christians.

This point is not valid, as its proven from history and records, that the time of advent of Islam, Mecca was not at all influenced by Jews and Christians

It is a bringing toghether of Pagan, Jewish and Christian myth and traditions much as the Jewish religion is made from Pagan elements and Christianity from both Pagan and Jewish traditions and myth.

Another wrong assertion, as the teachings given by Islam, are totaly opposite of Pagans, so your point is again invalid.

I don't see the Jewish religions as one that saves you from hell and Pauline Christianity as the source of the Christian concepts.

I recall growing up a Bible believer and assuming the Bible is God's Word and everything it says was true. But Christians today read their theology into the Bible making the Bible a secondary source.

If Bible is God's word, why so many versions and contradictions?

I recall seeing problems in Christianity and looked for answers in Judaism. After all Jesus was a Jew and if we want to be like Jesus...
I presumed the Bible to be right just like those that read a passage and say see if you believe you must believe the Bible and what is says as if what it says must be true and it must have all the answers...

After years of reading and learning how the writings were transmitted and selected I realized there just wasn't one true message in the Bible or just one way despite some claims some writings made. Inspired or not the writing were all to human. So of the writings were even forgeries.

This guy wants certainty.

What I see from your statements Sir, that you are not convinced from Bible teachings, as well as of Jews teachings, but you source of are uncertain what's the source of teachings given by Muhammad. If I'am wrong, please correct me so I can move forward with explanation.

You are wrong as he was influenced by both Jews and Christians even if the Christians were more Jewish Christians the orthodox.
As soon as you read about the Virgin Mary we can see his revelations are in the same boat as any other and he bought the Christian myths as well as the Jewish.

[TrueReligion]

You are wrong as he was influenced by both Jews and Christians even if the Christians were more Jewish Christians the orthodox.
As soon as you read about the Virgin Mary we can see his revelations are in the same boat as any other and he bought the Christian myths as well as the Jewish.

Sorry Cathar, I think you have;nt read the history of Muhammad (pbuh) and Islam. Islam started in Mecca, and Muhammad (pbuh) liced in Mecca till 40 years, and at the age of 40 he got revelation, till 13 years, means age of 53, he Migrate to Medina.

Now in Mecca, there was totaly no influence of Jews or Christians, there were only Pagans there. so your whole information and statements are totaly wrong and ignorant.

Also, I think you dont have idea, that the God which sent Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad (Peace be Upon them All) is 1 God, and therefore you can;t say that the Mary in Bible,is copied in Quran. Ofcourse the source is same for Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, so all information will be same as well.

The pre-Islamic Arabia was famous for its poetry which had reached its pinnacle during the time of the Prophet(P). Louis Cheikho's aim for collecting the poetry was to show that the Qur'ân had the origins in Jahiliyyah (Pre-Islamic) poetry. But what is remarkable is that the poetry which he collected resulted in the opposite conclusion!

At the beginning of this century, the Jesuit fathers of Beirut did extensive research on this (the Christian influence in Jahiliyyah) subject order to determine the role of "Christian Poets of Jahiliyya". The research resulted only in a literary composition, which has had the remarkable and unexpected result of proving the contrary of what the authors intended. Neither in pre-Islamic Mecca nor in its surrounding area, was there any record of a monotheistic cultural centre which could have disseminated the Biblical thought that we find expressed in the Holy Qur'ân.[1]

An observation from the point of view of Islamic traditions had been made by Richard Bell quite a long time ago. He says:

...in spite of traditions to the effect that the picture of Jesus was found on one of the pillars of Ka'aba, there is no good evidence of any seats of Christianity in the Hijaz or in the near neighbourhood of Makkah or even of Madina.[2]

The New Catholic Encyclopaedia confirms that during the time of the Muhammad(P)

The Hijaz [Arabian peninsula] had not been touched by Christian preaching. Hence organisation of the Christian church was neither to be expected nor found.[3]

This is also mentioned in the books dealing with Christianity among Arabs in pre-Islamic times from the point of view of poets.

The testimony of poets to the influence of Christianity in a spiritual and a sociological sense is negative.[4]

And in the footnotes we read:

Louis Cheikho collected a great mass of poetical material related in some way to the Christian Arab theme, but the greater part of it is regarded as spurious.[5]