How is the universe not absurd (or possible) without a creator in light of the following?
1. The universe without a creator breaks the law of conservation of mass and energy.
The question that needs to be answered: Where did all of the energy come from? I am using space and energy as synonymous terms because energy comes from space.
2. The universe without a creator breaks the second law of thermodynamics.
The question that needs to be answered is: Why we are individuals and not a Boltzmann brain?
3. The universe without a creator breaks all laws of probability.
The question that needs to be answered is: Why do the constants of nature have the values that they do? Or why do we have laws of nature?
There are more but we will stop at three.
Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Moderator: Moderators
- EarthScienceguy
- Guru
- Posts: 2192
- Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:53 pm
- Has thanked: 33 times
- Been thanked: 43 times
- Contact:
- thomasdixon
- Apprentice
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:19 pm
- Location: usa
- Has thanked: 22 times
- Been thanked: 26 times
- Contact:
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #171The cosmos spans infinitely with infinite possibilities
As I see it
The above image was taken by the Hubble telescope
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... wsource=cl
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... ield-photo
Infinity is a big, very big word I do believe there was/is a creator
As I see it
The above image was taken by the Hubble telescope
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... wsource=cl
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... ield-photo
Infinity is a big, very big word I do believe there was/is a creator
Last edited by thomasdixon on Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14375
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 922 times
- Been thanked: 1664 times
- Contact:
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #172Which circles back to post #164 where I placed a perspective on that idea;Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:19 pmVery well, a supernatural God exists as I can verify through my personal subjective experience of God.William wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:30 pm [Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #165]Yes, its unverifiable and unverifiable things do happen all the time, every day.I myself do not argue that they don't happen.If unverifiable things do happen all the time then how can the fact that they are unverifiable be used as an argument that they don't happen?
One such example of an unverifiable thing which happened to me is in the OP of a thread I recently created hereabouts.
I'm Not Saying It Was Aliens...
Post #1
Science cannot answer the question "can things happen in the universe that are not subject to the laws of nature"?This view is incorrect. Science CAN and DOES answer that question, and the answer is "No. All things which can happen in the universe ARE subject to the laws of nature and thus ARE natural."The thing is, I don't assert that.No you can assert that but there's no scientific reasoning that the laws of physics can never be violated, this is why they are called "axioms", assumptions.
What I assert is that - re the example of unverifiable things do happen I gave in the above link, it was verified by me through my subjective experience of it.
I do not claim from that experience, that the UFO did not come from a supernatural source.
I can only say, that in order for me to experience it, it was seen by me as light.
Therefore, since light is a verifiable thing in this universe, I can only remark on the incident as being 'natural' not 'supernatural'.
IF;
Ghosts turned out to be real through some scientific means of establishing that they are, and this was established through repeatability -
THEN;
this would not prove that the supernatural was therefore real but rather, it would prove that Ghosts should be regarded as a natural product of this universe. It would prove that Ghosts are real in this reality.Nor is that the scientific method.No it would do no such thing.
The fact that we might do some tests and every time we've done it we get X does not constitute a proof that the next time we do it we'll get X.
What is reasonable to accept is that - doing a reasonable amount of tests which produce the same results, also gives an acceptable measure of expectancy that if one continued to do the tests, the results will continue to be the same.
Eventually one can cease doing the tests and accept the results.The only way to show that we'll get X is to do the test, science cannot claim as facts the results of experiments not yet performed if we could then why even bother doing the test at all?
The results can then be categorized as "Incontrovertible Evidence"
as I remarked re "Supernatural" and materialist and theistic beliefs;
Since it is conjecture either way, both conjectures rule each other out.
The true position to adopt on the matter therefore must be something other than those two positions.
William wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:44 pm To place another perspective on it.
Sometimes I think of myself as a being from the supernatural universe you believe exists.
While there, I was able to bring anything into existence that I willed.
It was joyous and wonderful.
However, I wanted to know how I was able to do this.
The though this simple thought itself, it brought the physical universe into existence and I then proceeded to find the answer to that question - slowly and surely - with an acceptable amount of suffering and pain as an aspect of that process, here I Am Thus Far.
- JoeyKnothead
- Banned
- Posts: 20879
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
- Location: Here
- Has thanked: 4093 times
- Been thanked: 2572 times
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #173thomasdixon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:38 pm The cosmos spans infinitely with infinite possibilities
As I see it
cosmos.jpg
The above image was taken by the Hubble telescope
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... wsource=cl
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... ield-photo
Infinity is a big, very big word
cosmos4.tif
I do believe there was/is a creator
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin
-Punkinhead Martin
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #174May I enquire, why were you placed under probation?JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:31 pmthomasdixon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:38 pm The cosmos spans infinitely with infinite possibilities
As I see it
cosmos.jpg
The above image was taken by the Hubble telescope
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... wsource=cl
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... ield-photo
Infinity is a big, very big word
cosmos4.tif
I do believe there was/is a creator
- JoeyKnothead
- Banned
- Posts: 20879
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
- Location: Here
- Has thanked: 4093 times
- Been thanked: 2572 times
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #175Yes.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:19 amMay I enquire, why were you placed under probation?JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:31 pmthomasdixon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:38 pm The cosmos spans infinitely with infinite possibilities
As I see it
cosmos.jpg
The above image was taken by the Hubble telescope
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... wsource=cl
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... ield-photo
Infinity is a big, very big word
cosmos4.tif
I do believe there was/is a creator
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin
-Punkinhead Martin
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #176Why were you placed under probation?JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:22 pmYes.Sherlock Holmes wrote: ↑Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:19 amMay I enquire, why were you placed under probation?JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:31 pmthomasdixon wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 6:38 pm The cosmos spans infinitely with infinite possibilities
As I see it
cosmos.jpg
The above image was taken by the Hubble telescope
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... wsource=cl
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ ... ield-photo
Infinity is a big, very big word
cosmos4.tif
I do believe there was/is a creator
- William
- Savant
- Posts: 14375
- Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
- Location: Te Waipounamu
- Has thanked: 922 times
- Been thanked: 1664 times
- Contact:
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #177[Replying to Sherlock Holmes in post #176]
Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:51 am
JK could ask for the 'under probation' to be removed from being attached to his name, as per the rules, if he wanted to.
viewtopic.php?p=776550#p776550Why were you placed under probation?
Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:51 am
JK could ask for the 'under probation' to be removed from being attached to his name, as per the rules, if he wanted to.
- JoeyKnothead
- Banned
- Posts: 20879
- Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:59 am
- Location: Here
- Has thanked: 4093 times
- Been thanked: 2572 times
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #178I'm not always the polite and friendly guy you've come to know.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin
-Punkinhead Martin
Re: Absurdity of the universe without a creator
Post #179Yes I can see how that must be true.JoeyKnothead wrote: ↑Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:23 amI'm not always the polite and friendly guy you've come to know.