The Ten Commandments

[OnceConvinced]

Have you ever looked at the ten commandments and wonder what the hell was God thinking? Why did he put these ten things above all else? I can understand most of them, but certainly not all.

Just take a look at them:

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: (for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;)
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates
5. Honour thy father and thy mother
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The first three commandments are all about God and if they are that important to him then it shows us what an insecure and jealous God he is (Note that jealousy is a sin). That’s 30% of the commandments! Is God’s ego that delicate that he had to include 3 commandments such as this? Then you have laws like “thou shalt not covet” which seems to be small fry in the sin department next to many other things. “Thou shalt not commit adultery” also seems to be a small fish in a big pond when things like rape and paedophilia seem to be given a very low priority.

So what about some of the other important stuff? Where are all the other commandments that would seem to be so incredibly important? Where is…?

Thou shalt not take another human being as a slave (You’d think God would take a harder line on this issue)

Thou shalt not rape (Sexual crimes seem to be unimportant as far as God’s concerned when it comes to the 10 commandments - apart from adultry. In fact the bible says God expects rape victims to marry their abusers)

Thou shalt not take drugs (or something like that. After all, God knows what will happen in the future and must have surely known it would become a major problem further down the line. He is either short sighted or has no knowledge of what will happen in the future.)

I am aware there are a lot of issues dealt with in other parts of the Torah relating to immoralities, however the 10 Commandments seem to stand out as God’s main issues and that is what I am trying to focus on here.

So my questions:
What commandments that haven't been included do you think should have been included and why?
Should any have been omitted? Why?
Should any have been reworded or elaborated more on?.

[cnorman18]

Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly. "

This is, as it happens, a complete fabrication. There is no such tractate in the Talmud, and in fact, there is no such book and no such quotation in all the vast corpus of Jewish literature.

This quote exists nowhere but in antisemitic books and on antisemitic websites.

Ergo, there is nowhere else that you could have gotten it.

I have now proven, beyond doubt, the following FACTS:

(1) You absolutely did get this material from an antisemitic hate site. You could have not have found it anywhere else.

(2) You absolutely did NOT find this material in the Talmud yourself.

(3) You absolutely could NOT have gotten this material from the Talmud site to which you gave a link. That site does not contain a word of it.

I leave it to our readers to draw their own conclusions about your truthfulness, your motivations, the depth of your commitment to the principles of your religion, and your character.

The true believer might see no problem with deceit in order to win a convert or convince themselves just like torturing and death were acceptable methods of saving the soul. If you can find some passage to back you up all the better even if it is void of content or context.

Seems to me that that becomes counterproductive when falsehoods are exposed. That makes ALL of one's arguments LESS credible and casts doubt on everything one has to say.

I think he should be ashamed to tell us where he got the passage.

My guess would be that he IS ashamed, and that that is why he won't post it.

I don't think there is anything wrong with crazy sites and I enjoy reading them, sometimes they do have something interesting to say.

Some "crazy sites" are absolutely poisonous and have caused a great deal of harm. Material like that posted by RND here - and, in fact, those very distortions and lies - have been the direct motivation and justification for the oppression, torment and murder of my people for more than a hundred years,

These very "quotations" were cited by the Nazi regime as justification for the attempted extermination of the Jewish people during World War II, and they are still cited today, in support of claims that Judaism itself is evil and that there are no innocent Jews, to justify the murder of innocent Jewish men, women and children by Islamist terrorists.

Examine the sites where these "quotes" are found carefully, and then tell me again that you "don't think there is anything wrong" with them.

But even when they quote someone or a passage it is best to check them out.
When doubt is a sin or weakness in your religion the questioning your sources especially when they agree wit you is just another step towards sin for them.
Their beliefs suggest they can't be wrong and it seems for some there is never any debate as the unbeliever is always wrong.

I do not see that the allegations under consideration here have anything whatever to do with the truth or falsehood of the Christian religion. They do not support Christianity; they defame and smear Judaism and serve no other end.

I guess when you take the stories literally and factual right down to the smallest details it make God look like an unimaginative magic show and humans look incapable of doing anything, including creating stories, writing laws or having imaginations.
I can't help but think they are missing something by taking some things literally.

Again; this has nothing to do with taking anything literally. It has to do with an effort to misrepresent the Jewish faith as revering books that teach unspeakable evil.

Let me make this clear; I do not say that RND concocted these contemptible lies himself. Indeed, if his claim to have found them himself were true, the offense would have been even more heinous; he would then be guilty himself of having deliberately distorted and misrepresented the teachings of Judaism in a hateful effort to paint them as virtually Satanic.

It is much more likely that RND read these terrible things, and then, out of his ignorance of, and possibly prejudice against, the Jewish faith, accepted them as being true.

Ignorance is not really an excuse, but it is certainly common enough; and its presence is absolutely inarguable here. No one with even a smattering of actual knowledge about the Jewish religion would take these allegations seriously for a single second. Child rape is permissible and of no moral significance? The murder of Gentiles is to be commended? Only Jews are humans? Please. That is on the order of claiming that passages from the NT command literal cannibalism.

All that said; even if RND accepted those fake "quotes" as genuine at first encounter, I see no possible excuse for continuing to defend them AFTER he has been informed of their nature and origins. That inexcusability seems underlined to me by his falsification of his source for these "quotes" and his refusal to reveal his actual reference.

Again, I leave readers to draw their own conclusions here. To me, they seem obvious.

[I AM ALL I AM]

Some "crazy sites" are absolutely poisonous and have caused a great deal of harm. Material like that posted by RND here - and, in fact, those very distortions and lies - have been the direct motivation and justification for the oppression, torment and murder of my people for more than a hundred years,

These very "quotations" were cited by the Nazi regime as justification for the attempted extermination of the Jewish people during World War II, and they are still cited today, in support of claims that Judaism itself is evil and that there are no innocent Jews, to justify the murder of innocent Jewish men, women and children by Islamist terrorists.

G'day Cnorman18.

The "Nazi regime" was funded by Jewish bankers (among others like Prescott Bush), predominantly the Rothschild's. Jews have as much blood on their hands as any others, even of their 'own people'.

Here's a different viewpoint of some Jewish people .....



In the video clip the Jewish man speaking says that Jewish people have lived in peace with muslims for hundreds of years and it is not a religious war but a political one.

This from the site linked on the video .....

So the IDF strikes again…
It’s not like this is brand new news. Things like this happen constantly throughout Israel and the Occupied (Yes, Occupied, not Disputed) Territories. Making it ridiculously difficult to obtain a housing permit for Palestinians, demolishing their homes, restricting their movement, and basically implementing martial law on them, are just some of the crimes committed by the Israeli government towards it’s own inhabitants. Sure there are atrocities committed on both sides, but unfortunately here in the US, we only get one side of the story thanks to large Israeli lobbies (AIPAC, for example). And it’s not just large organizations that are influencing our media, it’s our political figures as well. The US is the largest supporter of Israel by far and if you look carefully, you’ll see how much the United States as a country supports this government. Another example is the number of United Nations Security Council Resolutions that the US has vetoed that all regard that region. If you look on the world spectrum, there’s a much more balanced view of what’s actually occurring.

There’s so much more to say that I can’t just type up all in this blog. For more information, a great documentary is Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land. The whole video is in that link which is uploaded on Google Video. And there’s also a book written by former United States President Jimmy Carter called Palestine: Peace not Apartheid.

Peace, Propaganda, and the Promised Land
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8578139565

Indignation and righteousness are 'poor cards to play' in a debate.

I'm reminded of a quote, but at the moment do not recall the source .....

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

[FinalEnigma]

I can't help but think they are missing something by taking some things literally.

This probably isn't really relevant, since this is obviously not a matter of taking thing literally, but I wanted to agree here. When you read something, you miss so much of the elegance, content, and beauty of it if you take it literally when it wasn't meant that way. If you were to read Spenser or Milton like that you would be missing the majority of the work.

however, as a writer, on occasion you want to smack people for putting symbolism where it doesn't belong.

[cnorman18]

Some "crazy sites" are absolutely poisonous and have caused a great deal of harm. Material like that posted by RND here - and, in fact, those very distortions and lies - have been the direct motivation and justification for the oppression, torment and murder of my people for more than a hundred years,

These very "quotations" were cited by the Nazi regime as justification for the attempted extermination of the Jewish people during World War II, and they are still cited today, in support of claims that Judaism itself is evil and that there are no innocent Jews, to justify the murder of innocent Jewish men, women and children by Islamist terrorists.

G'day Cnorman18.

The "Nazi regime" was funded by Jewish bankers (among others like Prescott Bush), predominantly the Rothschild's. Jews have as much blood on their hands as any others, even of their 'own people'.

Yes, I have seen such allegations before, that some Jews were complicit in the murder of their own people. Some few of them probably were.

Should that fact - to the extent that it is a fact - reflect on the Jewish people as a whole or on the teachings of the Jewish religion, which is unambiguously opposed to such things?

As I have said elsewhere and often, the policies and practices of the state of Israel are irrelevant to a discussion of the Jewish faith. They are not determined by Jewish religious teachings, nor are religious authorities in a position to dictate them. The majority of the population of Israel, and thus of its leaders, is made up of Jews who identify themselves as "nonreligious" or "secular."

The subject here is the defamation of the Jewish religion through deliberate falsehoods, not whether or not either all Jews or the state of Israel are perfect.

Indignation and righteousness are 'poor cards to play' in a debate.

Who said anything about "righteousness"? Have I claimed here that I or anyone else is perfect or near it? Would such a claim be a prerequisite for pointing out blatant and provable misstatements of fact?

Let's get back to the subject. Red herrings about the "evil Jews" and the "evil state of Israel" aside, let's be clear:

Are you defending the deliberate misrepresentation of the teachings of Judaism as containing the unspeakable horrors alleged here?

Do you think those allegations are true?

If not, what exactly is your objection to my proving them false and showing their presentation here to be a matter of misrepresentation and falsehood as well?

Should I have remained silent?

If so - why?

[cnorman18]

Bump for RND's benefit.

Are you denying that you copied that entire list of quotations from Sherry Shriner's site, or some equally vicious pile of dung? Are you actually claiming that you found them yourself?

Yes, I'm denying that.

Let's be clear; you are denying that you copied those "quotations" from any hate site, and you are claiming, here and below, that you found them yourself.

Why are they word-for-word and letter-for-letter identical, down to parenthetical remarks and punctuation, and in precisely the same order, as on Sherry's bigoted nutcase website?

Because Sherry Shriner knows how to cut n paste?

That is an implicit admission that you know how to cut and paste, too.

Prove it.

You're not a Semite.

That is a non sequitur, of course.

Below, this has been corrected to its original form from a clumsy attempt to dodge the question.

Prove it. Give a link to your source. Let us all see it and judge whether you're telling the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

I was obviously asking for the source of your "Talmud quotes."

Show us some [evil from the Talmud], that I can't Google and prove you got it from a hate site. Go ahead.

Done, did it already.

No. You didn't. And when you finally claim to do so below, you do not give your actual source for those quotes.

And best of all, show us a site - any site - where that material can be found, a site that isn't antisemitic.

That's rather subjective isn't? Isn't true that you'd consider any web site not run by jews to be anti-semtic?

That is both ludicrous and an insult, of course; but that's why I challenged you to give your source for these spurious "quotes." Post it - and let EVERYONE look at it and decide for themselves whether or not it's antisemitic.

I note for the record that you are unwilling to do that. Again: The site you give below was not the source for these quotes.

While you're at it, give us the publisher, the name, the ISBN number, and the memory required for that "Talmud on your computer."

www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

That reference is proof positive that statements you have made here are not true; I will demonstrate that beyond doubt in a moment.

Explain why your post is absolutely identical to, and even titled the same as, a page on a despicable looney-tunes neo-Nazi website.

Because the neo-nazi website copied it from another website?

What other website? The one where you supposedly found this excrement? If that's not a neo-Nazi website, why won't you tell what it is? The site you give is absolutely not your source.

Keep in mind the Talmud isn't copyrighted.

In English translation, it most certainly is. The site you gave is in the public domain, but as will be seen, it is nowhere near complete. The entire Talmud is not, to my knowledge, available on the Internet anywhere.

That material was the absolute essence of antisemitism, and can be found nowhere else - except, of course, on Jewish sites that expose it as a pack of UNGODLY lies.

Maybe that's where I got it?

You went to a site that exposed these statements as false and proved them false, copied the parts proven to be lies, and pasted them into your post in order to claim that they are all true?

That's ridiculous. Further, if you HAD actually done that, which you didn't, it would be proof positive of dishonesty and deception.

I leave it to our readers to consider those issues in regard to what you have already posted, anyway. Let's get to the proof of what is and is not true in what you have posted here:

The site you gave above, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm, is an abridgement of about a third of the Talmud. It is not complete, nor does it claim to be.

I invite everyone who reads this to go there and see this for themselves: Not a single one of the "quotations" which you claim to have found on this site can actually be found there. Not one.

Further proof? Okay: in your post, you "quote" from tractates Kerithoth, Berakoth, Yebamuth, Kethuboth, and Gittin.

Those tractates are not even among those translated on this site, and nothing from them can be found there.

Want more? Something really, totally conclusive and unanswerable? No problem.

Of particular interest in that regard is this "quotation":

Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly. "

This is, as it happens, a complete fabrication. There is no such tractate in the Talmud, and in fact, there is no such book and no such quotation in all the vast corpus of Jewish literature.

This quote exists nowhere but in antisemitic books and on antisemitic websites.

Ergo, there is nowhere else that you could have gotten it.

I have now proven, beyond doubt, the following FACTS:

(1) You absolutely did get this material from an antisemitic hate site. You could have not have found it anywhere else.

(2) You absolutely did NOT find this material in the Talmud yourself.

(3) You absolutely could NOT have gotten this material from the Talmud site to which you gave a link. That site does not contain a word of it.

I leave it to our readers to draw their own conclusions about your truthfulness, your motivations, the depth of your commitment to the principles of your religion, and your character.

[I AM ALL I AM]

G'day Cnorman18.

What I am doing is offering a balance to your one sidedness.

You state, "the murder of innocent Jewish men, women and children by Islamist terrorists", thus claiming Islamic people (followers of the Islamic religion and thus the religion itself) to be terrorists. The actual fact though (which you would have known if you had watched the documentary) is that Israel has illegally occupied Palestinian territory in contravention to international law and the UN charter since 1967.

These so called "Islamist terrorists" are freedom fighters !!!

They live in their own land and have to defend themselves against Jewish soldiers that demolish their homes and kill their families. This is why there are Jewish people protesting their own state (Israel, fully supported by America both financially and with free military equipment) funded ethnic cleansing program against the Palestinians.

"As I have said elsewhere and often, the policies and practices of the state of Israel are irrelevant to a discussion of the Jewish faith."

You can repeat yourself as loudly and as often as you like.

The state of Israel was apparently (there are other reasons) set up as a home for Jewish people.

Do you claim that Jewish people do not make up the population of Israel and thus Israel is some sort of entity separate from the beliefs and practices of the Jewish people that live there ?

The first video that I posted shows Jews that hold a completely different viewpoint to that. They aren't the only ones, as the sites below clearly show (Rabbi Arik W. Ascherman from the 2nd link is in the documentary that I posted) .....

http://www.couragetorefuse.org/English/default.asp

Courage to Refuse > Combatants Letter

* We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, self-sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.

* We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty in the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people.

* We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides,

* We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Occupied Territories destroy all the values that we were raised upon,

* We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society,

* We, who know that the Territories are not a part of Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated,

* We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.

* We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.

* We hereby declare that we shall continue serving the Israel Defense Force in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.

The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.


Rabbis For Human Rights
http://rhr.israel.net/

"Are you defending the deliberate misrepresentation of the teachings of Judaism as containing the unspeakable horrors alleged here? "

I pointed out your bias of stating "Islamist terrorists" and made no reference to any other post or what it contained.

You attempting to dramatise ("unspeakable horrors") what has gone on elsewhere on this thread and somehow link me to it is an avoidance of what I was pointing out with the comment that you posted in reply to Cathar1950.

No where did I state "evil Jews" or "evil state of Israel", which is simply more dramatisation on your part. Are you going to call me anti-semetic next ?

[cnorman18]

G'day Cnorman18.

What I am doing is offering a balance to your one sidedness.

You state, "the murder of innocent Jewish men, women and children by Islamist terrorists", thus claiming Islamic people (followers of the Islamic religion and thus the religion itself) to be terrorists.

That is false. "Islamism" is not the same as Islam. I am on the record here many times saying that Islam is an ancient and honorable religion which has been shamed and damaged by terrorism and that Muslims ought not be judged by the actions of extremists.

The actual fact though (which you would have known if you had watched the documentary) is that Israel...

For the record, I do not own a PC; I post from a BlackBerry and am unable to watch videos.

ETA: It occurs to me to point out that I did not mention Israel here. These attacks have taken place worldwide; and also for the record, I do not necessarily consider Palestinians to be either Islamists nor terrorists.

And to repeat; I choose not to discuss or debate the policies or actions of Israel here. I come here to discuss religion, not politics.

My only point in mentioning Islamist (not Islamic) terrorism was to demonstrate that the false characterizations of the Talmud posted my RND are still in circulation and are not benign. Period.

If you wish to argue about terrorism, feel free, but that is not my topic here, and without expressing an opinion either way, I decline to engage. I should not have mentioned terrorism, and I withdraw those remarks.

This is why there are Jewish people protesting their own state..

.
Which demonstrates that, as I have stated, Israeli policy is not identical to Judaism - as do the documents you posted from Jewish soldiers and rabbis.

'Nuff said.

"Are you defending the deliberate misrepresentation of the teachings of Judaism as containing the unspeakable horrors alleged here? "

I pointed out your bias of stating "Islamist terrorists" and made no reference to any other post or what it contained.

Fine. I hereby retract all my remarks (one passing allusion) about "Islamist terrorism" as offtopic. I also retract my allusions to "evil Jews" and "the evil state of Israel," though I think the reference to your remarks about Jews financing the Nazi regime and Israel brutalizing Palestinians might explain those shorthand phrases (You surely weren't talking about GOOD Jews or the benevolent state of Israel). In any case, as I say, I withdraw those remarks as offtopic too. I withdraw any remarks I have made about Islam, terrorism, Israeli policies, and so on. I said little enough, but I withdraw it.

Now, without reference to any other people or group, perhaps we can deal with the single issue that IS the intended point of these posts.

To repeat:

Are you defending the deliberate misrepresentations of the teachings of Judaism posted by RND on this thread?

If not, what exactly is your objection to my proving them false and showing their presentation here to be a matter of misrepresentation and falsehood as well (which is all I have intended to do)?

Should I have remained silent?

If so - why?

[cnorman18]

As I did with a post to Easyrider on the subject of Deuteronomy 28 and 30, I shall keep this post at the top of the subforum for a week or so to make sure that RND has an opportunity to respond - and to underline the fact that he has not.

Are you denying that you copied that entire list of quotations from Sherry Shriner's site, or some equally vicious pile of dung? Are you actually claiming that you found them yourself?

Yes, I'm denying that.

Let's be clear; you are denying that you copied those "quotations" from any hate site, and you are claiming, here and below, that you found them yourself.

Why are they word-for-word and letter-for-letter identical, down to parenthetical remarks and punctuation, and in precisely the same order, as on Sherry's bigoted nutcase website?

Because Sherry Shriner knows how to cut n paste?

That is an implicit admission that you know how to cut and paste, too.

Prove it.

You're not a Semite.

That is a non sequitur, of course.

Below, this has been corrected to its original form from a clumsy attempt to dodge the question.

Prove it. Give a link to your source. Let us all see it and judge whether you're telling the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

I was obviously asking for the source of your "Talmud quotes."

Show us some [evil from the Talmud], that I can't Google and prove you got it from a hate site. Go ahead.

Done, did it already.

No. You didn't. And when you finally claim to do so below, you do not give your actual source for those quotes.

And best of all, show us a site - any site - where that material can be found, a site that isn't antisemitic.

That's rather subjective isn't? Isn't true that you'd consider any web site not run by jews to be anti-semtic?

That is both ludicrous and an insult, of course; but that's why I challenged you to give your source for these spurious "quotes." Post it - and let EVERYONE look at it and decide for themselves whether or not it's antisemitic.

I note for the record that you are unwilling to do that. Again: The site you give below was not the source for these quotes.

While you're at it, give us the publisher, the name, the ISBN number, and the memory required for that "Talmud on your computer."

www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

That reference is proof positive that statements you have made here are not true; I will demonstrate that beyond doubt in a moment.

Explain why your post is absolutely identical to, and even titled the same as, a page on a despicable looney-tunes neo-Nazi website.

Because the neo-nazi website copied it from another website?

What other website? The one where you supposedly found this excrement? If that's not a neo-Nazi website, why won't you tell what it is? The site you give is absolutely not your source.

Keep in mind the Talmud isn't copyrighted.

In English translation, it most certainly is. The site you gave is in the public domain, but as will be seen, it is nowhere near complete. The entire Talmud is not, to my knowledge, available on the Internet anywhere.

That material was the absolute essence of antisemitism, and can be found nowhere else - except, of course, on Jewish sites that expose it as a pack of UNGODLY lies.

Maybe that's where I got it?

You went to a site that exposed these statements as false and proved them false, copied the parts proven to be lies, and pasted them into your post in order to claim that they are all true?

That's ridiculous. Further, if you HAD actually done that, which you didn't, it would be proof positive of dishonesty and deception.

I leave it to our readers to consider those issues in regard to what you have already posted, anyway. Let's get to the proof of what is and is not true in what you have posted here:

The site you gave above, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm, is an abridgement of about a third of the Talmud. It is not complete, nor does it claim to be.

I invite everyone who reads this to go there and see this for themselves: Not a single one of the "quotations" which you claim to have found on this site can actually be found there. Not one.

Further proof? Okay: in your post, you "quote" from tractates Kerithoth, Berakoth, Yebamuth, Kethuboth, and Gittin.

Those tractates are not even among those translated on this site, and nothing from them can be found there.

Want more? Something really, totally conclusive and unanswerable? No problem.

Of particular interest in that regard is this "quotation":

Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly. "

This is, as it happens, a complete fabrication. There is no such tractate in the Talmud, and in fact, there is no such book and no such quotation in all the vast corpus of Jewish literature.

This quote exists nowhere but in antisemitic books and on antisemitic websites.

Ergo, there is nowhere else that you could have gotten it.

I have now proven, beyond doubt, the following FACTS:

(1) You absolutely did get this material from an antisemitic hate site. You could have not have found it anywhere else.

(2) You absolutely did NOT find this material in the Talmud yourself.

(3) You absolutely could NOT have gotten this material from the Talmud site to which you gave a link. That site does not contain a word of it.

I leave it to our readers to draw their own conclusions about your truthfulness, your motivations, the depth of your commitment to the principles of your religion, and your character.

[cnorman18]

There has been no response to this post. I predict that none will be offered.

And that fact, like the facts presented here, speaks for itself.

(Another note: Someone keeps reporting this post. One wonders on what grounds....)



---

Are you denying that you copied that entire list of quotations from Sherry Shriner's site, or some equally vicious pile of dung? Are you actually claiming that you found them yourself?

Yes, I'm denying that.

Let's be clear; you are denying that you copied those "quotations" from any hate site, and you are claiming, here and below, that you found them yourself.

Why are they word-for-word and letter-for-letter identical, down to parenthetical remarks and punctuation, and in precisely the same order, as on Sherry's bigoted nutcase website?

Because Sherry Shriner knows how to cut n paste?

That is an implicit admission that you know how to cut and paste, too.

Prove it.

You're not a Semite.

That is a non sequitur, of course.

Below, this has been corrected to its original form from a clumsy attempt to dodge the question.

Prove it. Give a link to your source. Let us all see it and judge whether you're telling the truth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic

I was obviously asking for the source of your "Talmud quotes."

Show us some [evil from the Talmud], that I can't Google and prove you got it from a hate site. Go ahead.

Done, did it already.

No. You didn't. And when you finally claim to do so below, you do not give your actual source for those quotes.

And best of all, show us a site - any site - where that material can be found, a site that isn't antisemitic.

That's rather subjective isn't? Isn't true that you'd consider any web site not run by jews to be anti-semtic?

That is both ludicrous and an insult, of course; but that's why I challenged you to give your source for these spurious "quotes." Post it - and let EVERYONE look at it and decide for themselves whether or not it's antisemitic.

I note for the record that you are unwilling to do that. Again: The site you give below was not the source for these quotes.

While you're at it, give us the publisher, the name, the ISBN number, and the memory required for that "Talmud on your computer."

www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm

That reference is proof positive that statements you have made here are not true; I will demonstrate that beyond doubt in a moment.

Explain why your post is absolutely identical to, and even titled the same as, a page on a despicable looney-tunes neo-Nazi website.

Because the neo-nazi website copied it from another website?

What other website? The one where you supposedly found this excrement? If that's not a neo-Nazi website, why won't you tell what it is? The site you give is absolutely not your source.

Keep in mind the Talmud isn't copyrighted.

In English translation, it most certainly is. The site you gave is in the public domain, but as will be seen, it is nowhere near complete. The entire Talmud is not, to my knowledge, available on the Internet anywhere.

That material was the absolute essence of antisemitism, and can be found nowhere else - except, of course, on Jewish sites that expose it as a pack of UNGODLY lies.

Maybe that's where I got it?

You went to a site that exposed these statements as false and proved them false, copied the parts proven to be lies, and pasted them into your post in order to claim that they are all true?

That's ridiculous. Further, if you HAD actually done that, which you didn't, it would be proof positive of dishonesty and deception.

I leave it to our readers to consider those issues in regard to what you have already posted, anyway. Let's get to the proof of what is and is not true in what you have posted here:

The site you gave above, www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm, is an abridgement of about a third of the Talmud. It is not complete, nor does it claim to be.

I invite everyone who reads this to go there and see this for themselves: Not a single one of the "quotations" which you claim to have found on this site can actually be found there. Not one.

Further proof? Okay: in your post, you "quote" from tractates Kerithoth, Berakoth, Yebamuth, Kethuboth, and Gittin.

Those tractates are not even among those translated on this site, and nothing from them can be found there.

Want more? Something really, totally conclusive and unanswerable? No problem.

Of particular interest in that regard is this "quotation":

Libbre David 37: "To communicate anything with a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly. "

This is, as it happens, a complete fabrication. There is no such tractate in the Talmud, and in fact, there is no such book and no such quotation in all the vast corpus of Jewish literature.

This quote exists nowhere but in antisemitic books and on antisemitic websites.

Ergo, there is nowhere else that you could have gotten it.

I have now proven, beyond doubt, the following FACTS:

(1) You absolutely did get this material from an antisemitic hate site. You could have not have found it anywhere else.

(2) You absolutely did NOT find this material in the Talmud yourself.

(3) You absolutely could NOT have gotten this material from the Talmud site to which you gave a link. That site does not contain a word of it.

I leave it to our readers to draw their own conclusions about your truthfulness, your motivations, the depth of your commitment to the principles of your religion, and your character.

[Cathar1950]

I have now proven, beyond doubt, the following FACTS:

(1) You absolutely did get this material from an antisemitic hate site. You could have not have found it anywhere else.

(2) You absolutely did NOT find this material in the Talmud yourself.

(3) You absolutely could NOT have gotten this material from the Talmud site to which you gave a link. That site does not contain a word of it.

I leave it to our readers to draw their own conclusions about your truthfulness, your motivations, the depth of your commitment to the principles of your religion, and your character.

I agree and all he had to do is post his real sourse.
He got caught.