Quranic contradictions?

[Abdullah]

None,

I challenge every person here to find any, you won't succeed.

[muhammad rasullah]

Why wouldn't you help him out the man again?

What point do you think you’ll prove with this? I wouldn’t help him out because I would fear he’d betray me again. BUT… as I’ve pointed out, I say this as a weak and fallible human. Allah supposedly epitomises Infinite Mercy and Forgiveness. That makes allah utterly different from a mere human and should also forgive infinitely .

Okay we agree that allah is most forgiving most merciful. But Allah tells us that he will only help those who help themselves. Just as you would do for the person who constantly played you for a fool everytime you helped him with money. If you saw that this person was desperately striving and making efforts to refrain from his old ways you would help him. This is another reason why Allah has given us an appointed term to live in this life, everyone will die some day and nobody knows when but Allah. So Allah encourages us and repeatedly tells us to remain steadfast and repent. The time to ask for forgiveness is now and not when your life has ended and you can see the punishment coming to you. This is why no mercy is given then when the judgement is come but is given now before that day. This is the point I am making and if you know this or have been exposed to the words of Allah, Allah says that this world is but a short amusement and illusion, but the hereafter is eternal. Why would you risk being thrown into this eternal fire for the illusion of this world? It is binding upon Allah that this judgement must come to pass. Those who play with it as sport only hurt themselves!

[muhammad rasullah]

Religions should be judged by the actions of its adherents and not by it's Bible.

Most Bibles have self serving scripture and are often more interested in exclusion than inclusion. They do love to discriminate and denigrate.

If you are not in Jesus you go to hell.
If you are not bowing to Allah you go to hell.
If you are not of my God your burn is the cry of almost all religions. They are all wrong.

If there is a God, and there is, then He creates all souls with the same intent, to get them into Heaven at the end of their lives on earth.

He does not play favorites. He began owning the complete universe and will end the same way.

Now speaking to the last issue of giving to someone who wastes our efforts to help by giving him more and more.

Let me say that if you want to help some one, there are those who will not throw help back into your face. These are the ones who deserve your help. The others should be told to go find help elsewhere. If they continually have to seek new help then perhaps they will learn to appreciate it.

I see no need to waste good help after bad. If the offending person is that stupid then perhaps freezing in the ditch is his destiny. Let us send flowers to his grave instead of worrying about someone who spits at us after taking our help. This may be all he deserves and we should all be able to stand proudly and say so.
This applies to any but the mentally ill. These we should forgive.

Regards
DL

He does not play favorites. He began owning the complete universe and will end the same way.

God does not play favorites in terms of loving everyone but some more than others, but God loves more those who strive in his cause and will than those who disgrace him those are dearer to God because their hearts are with Him.

If there is a God, and there is, then He creates all souls with the same intent, to get them into Heaven at the end of their lives on earth.

This is not the purpose of God creating the soul or man. The purpose is for them to worship him alone having no partners and submit to him whole heartedly and willingly.

Th issue was not the giving part of the scenario but someone questioning God's mercy of letting them go into an eternal fire when he is most forgiving and most merciful. The former was explained in my previous post.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

Let me quote from Ebon Musings on this topic:

Why can't you repent in Hell and be released? What happens if one of the damned says, "I can't take this anymore. I understand now that I sinned and I'm sorry. God, please forgive me and let me out of here"? Will this work? If not, why not? If there's a rule that says it's too late to repent once you're in Hell, who made that rule and why?

Some theists might say that God does not allow this because, in this case, people would be repenting just to escape further punishment, not because they were genuinely sorry. If this is the case, then shouldn't he also condemn people who repented on Earth only because they were afraid of Hell? Shouldn't he also condemn people who repented on Earth because of some personal tragedy or catastrophe that befell them? Yet no religions I am aware of teach that God will do this; if anything, most monotheistic religions teach that such occurrences are very salutary in bringing people closer to God and making them realize their dependence on him. If God wants everyone to be saved, if he accepts repentance motivated by personal catastrophe on Earth, and if he accepts repentance motivated by fear of Hell while on Earth, then a declaration that God will not forgive anyone once they are in Hell cannot be seen as anything other than arbitrary and irrational. Such a declaration would be motivated not by any real reason or logical necessity, but by the desire of that religion to secure earthly power by coercing and frightening people into allegiance.

(All emphases mine, and not in the original)

[muhammad rasullah]

Let me quote from Ebon Musings on this topic:

Why can't you repent in Hell and be released? What happens if one of the damned says, "I can't take this anymore. I understand now that I sinned and I'm sorry. God, please forgive me and let me out of here"? Will this work? If not, why not? If there's a rule that says it's too late to repent once you're in Hell, who made that rule and why?

Some theists might say that God does not allow this because, in this case, people would be repenting just to escape further punishment, not because they were genuinely sorry. If this is the case, then shouldn't he also condemn people who repented on Earth only because they were afraid of Hell? Shouldn't he also condemn people who repented on Earth because of some personal tragedy or catastrophe that befell them? Yet no religions I am aware of teach that God will do this; if anything, most monotheistic religions teach that such occurrences are very salutary in bringing people closer to God and making them realize their dependence on him. If God wants everyone to be saved, if he accepts repentance motivated by personal catastrophe on Earth, and if he accepts repentance motivated by fear of Hell while on Earth, then a declaration that God will not forgive anyone once they are in Hell cannot be seen as anything other than arbitrary and irrational. Such a declaration would be motivated not by any real reason or logical necessity, but by the desire of that religion to secure earthly power by coercing and frightening people into allegiance.

(All emphases mine, and not in the original)

Why can't you repent in Hell and be released? What happens if one of the damned says, "I can't take this anymore. I understand now that I sinned and I'm sorry. God, please forgive me and let me out of here"? Will this work? If not, why not? If there's a rule that says it's too late to repent once you're in Hell, who made that rule and why?

The reason it would be too late for someone to repent is as the person said that they would only be repenting because the punishment had come to them already not because they were sincere. 67:6 For those who reject their Lord (and Cherisher) is the Penalty of Hell: and evil is (such), Destination 67:7 When they are cast therein, they will hear the (terrible) drawing in of its breath even as it blazes forth, 67:8 Almost bursting with fury: Every time a Group is cast therein, its Keepers will ask, "Did no Warner come to you?" 67:9 They will say: "Yes indeed; a Warner did come to us, but we rejected him and said, '(Allah) never sent down any (Message): ye are nothing but an egregious delusion!'" 67:10 They will further say: "Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we should not (now) be among the Companions of the Blazing Fire!" 67:11 They will then confess their sins: but far will be (Forgiveness) from the Companions of the Blazing Fire! -

Repentance is too late now Allah further says surely if we were to restore them again they behave the same. Allah knows this so would why would he forgive them. The time to repent is now and it is Allah who has set it this way is this unfair that he gives time to reoent now and sent them guidance and prophets to warn them of this punishment if they did not repent. Allah has given them everything they need to repent to him all he ask is that you try and show effort and he will help the rest of the way.

If this is the case, then shouldn't he also condemn people who repented on Earth only because they were afraid of Hell? Shouldn't he also condemn people who repented on Earth because of some personal tragedy or catastrophe that befell them? Yet no religions I am aware of teach that God will do this;

Allah will do this to fear the punisment while alive is better to have fear wen your time to be punished has come. The difference is that fear of allah and his punishment is also belief in Allah as well. And it is better to have this alive. You act as if this is unfair like Allah owes this to them after they have felt the punishment Allah has given them time to repent on earth and warned them of this punishmnet repeatedly wouldn't you listen?

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

Did you read the quote from Ebon Musings fully? Because, as I even emphasised, why — if too late when in Hell — does god allow people on earth to repent IF THEY ONLY DO SO BECAUSE THEY FEAR GOING TO HELL?

[muhammad rasullah]

Did you read the quote from Ebon Musings fully? Because, as I even emphasised, why — if too late when in Hell — does god allow people on earth to repent IF THEY ONLY DO SO BECAUSE THEY FEAR GOING TO HELL?

It is too late to repent for this reason. Because the punishment which they are about to receive is about to be put on them by allah. that is why allah gives us this appointed lifetime to live so that we can seek his forgiveness while we still have the time. It's like children when they get a beating because they may have stole something and you knew they did it but gave them time to ask for forgiveness but they never did and when they are about to get punished they'll say sorry a million times just so they won't get that beating, but they'll go right back sooner or later to doing what they did in the first place. but if I stole from you and came to you for forgiveness before you approached me about it you would forgive me because I was sorry for what I did not waiting til the last minute just to escape the punishment.

[Pazuzu bin Hanbi]

Did you read the quote from Ebon Musings fully? Because, as I even emphasised, why — if too late when in Hell — does god allow people on earth to repent IF THEY ONLY DO SO BECAUSE THEY FEAR GOING TO HELL?

It is too late to repent for this reason. Because the punishment which they are about to receive is about to be put on them by allah. that is why allah gives us this appointed lifetime to live so that we can seek his forgiveness while we still have the time. It's like children when they get a beating because they may have stole something and you knew they did it but gave them time to ask for forgiveness but they never did and when they are about to get punished they'll say sorry a million times just so they won't get that beating, but they'll go right back sooner or later to doing what they did in the first place. but if I stole from you and came to you for forgiveness before you approached me about it you would forgive me because I was sorry for what I did not waiting til the last minute just to escape the punishment.

And what if you only confessed because you feared that I was going to beat you?

That’s a crass analogy, anyway. Why would a god beat on someone? And literally for all eternity? Please note that in Islâm it doesn’t come down to reprehensible and immoral acts that land you in Hell (around 4% of references have anything to do with immorality like killing, greed, etc.), but the BIGGEST Hell–winner consists of not believing in allâh. In other words, disagreeing with Muhammad. That makes the Islâmic Hell naught but a political prison which punishes thoughts and beliefs.

[Smorb]

It is not a misfortune to be born into Islam it is a blessing to live a path of righteousness for the pleasure of allah and your own soul.

How's that working out for Muslims?

In the big picture, how do you explain the complete and almost universal failure of Muslim States? including official "Islamic States" such as Iran, Afghanistan and also including countries with Islam as a "State Religion", such as Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

If you break down each country in the world to its GDP as measures by any current systems, you will find a striking correlation between countries with a significantly high percentage as practicing Muslims, and an extremely low ranking in many areas. If you cross reference GDP by percentage of Muslim population, you can see the obvious detriment that most of these countries face.

here is the Break Down for you.

Countries ranked by percent of Muslim population and add to the list their Rank globally as determined by the World Banks figures on Nominal GDP per capita.


COUNTRY %MUSLIM RANK

1. Maldives 99.98% 160
2. Mauritania 99.9% 145
3. Somalia 99.89% Not Ranked
4. Afghanistan 99% 114
5. Algeria 99% 47*
6. Yemen 99% 85
7. Zanzibar 99% Not Ranked
8. Morocco 98% 58*
9. Iran 98% 29*
10. Tunisia 98% 74

Now, of course there are rich Muslim countries, right? Saudi Arabia is rich, they have all that oil. Oil is not a religion and religion can not be sold to America, so Religion is definately not the source of their wealth. I have marked Algeria and Iran as they too are oil-rich and Petroleum constitutes a huge percent of their Exports. This may account for some of their GDP increase. I will stress though, that with most oil-rich Islamic countries, the wealth of that country is not shared across the country evenly and you end up with ridiculously super-rich sultans in Saudi Arabia and extremely poor absolutely forgotten peasants in Iran.

If GDP is to your liking not a great indicator of how "successful" a country is, or a base for how well the country has developed, lets take a look at the UNs Human Development Reports. This shows a ranking of all countries based on:

Life Expectancy
Literacy
Education
Standard of Living
GDP per capita.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_H ... 282%29.svg

this is a chart of the world with the countries colored according to their Human Development index. Reds are very low, greens are very high.

compare that to a map showing the Muslim population by countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Muslim_World.png

Notice the striking similarities between Muslim populations and really poor or underdeveloped nations.

[Smorb]

muhammad rasullah wrote:

It is not a misfortune to be born into Islam it is a blessing to live a path of righteousness for the pleasure of allah and your own soul.

How's that working out for Muslims?

In the big picture, how do you explain the complete and almost universal failure of Muslim States? including official "Islamic States" such as Iran, Afghanistan and also including countries with Islam as a "State Religion", such as Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

If you break down each country in the world to its GDP as measures by any current systems, you will find a striking correlation between countries with a significantly high percentage as practicing Muslims, and an extremely low ranking in many areas. If you cross reference GDP by percentage of Muslim population, you can see the obvious detriment that most of these countries face.

here is the Break Down for you.

Countries ranked by percent of Muslim population and add to the list their Rank globally as determined by the World Banks figures on Nominal GDP per capita.


COUNTRY | %MUSLIM | RANK

1. Maldives | 99.98% | 160
2. Mauritania | 99.9% | 145
3. Somalia | 99.89% | Not Ranked
4. Afghanistan | 99% | 114
5. Algeria | 99% | 47*
6. Yemen | 99% | 85
7. Zanzibar | 99% | Not Ranked
8. Morocco | 98% | 58*
9. Iran | 98% | 29*
10. Tunisia | 98% | 74

Now, of course there are rich Muslim countries, right? Saudi Arabia is rich, they have all that oil. Oil is not a religion and religion can not be sold to America, so Religion is definately not the source of their wealth. I have marked Algeria and Iran as they too are oil-rich and Petroleum constitutes a huge percent of their Exports. This may account for some of their GDP increase. I will stress though, that with most oil-rich Islamic countries, the wealth of that country is not shared across the country evenly and you end up with ridiculously super-rich sultans in Saudi Arabia and extremely poor absolutely forgotten peasants in Iran.

If GDP is to your liking not a great indicator of how "successful" a country is, or a base for how well the country has developed, lets take a look at the UNs Human Development Reports. This shows a ranking of all countries based on:

Life Expectancy
Literacy
Education
Standard of Living
GDP per capita.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_H ... 282%29.svg

this is a chart of the world with the countries colored according to their Human Development index. Reds are very low, greens are very high.

compare that to a map showing the Muslim population by countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Muslim_World.png

Notice the striking similarities between Muslim populations and really poor or underdeveloped nations.

Sorry, but I think that for the majority of Muslims, you are dealt the severely short straw if born into your religion. Chances are your life sucks if you are born into this. You, the person I am quoting may not feel this way, but you obviously have money to afford an internet connection, a computer and time to spend debating the finer points about what you believe in.

Good for you. Bad for the children in Somalia who don't care about Allah or Muhammad and would trade every Koran in existence for a loaf of Bread. Guaranteed.

I'm not saying that its much more fortunate to be born into a Christian family, the majority of Christians are still in Africa and other horrendous places with terrible standards of living as well.

On the opposite sides of this scale, you will find that the most successful and highest rated countries are also the ones that enjoy the least religious populations.

So, a blessing to be born a Muslim? No thanks, id rather be born in Finland and have a much bigger head start.

PS: Do not try and pull the "BUT its your AFTERlife that counts." nobody buys that. If you weren't indoctrinated by the people entrusted with your well-being to believe in an afterlife, you wouldn't buy it either. If I told you everyday for a thousand years that you were a lemon, you would believe that too. Sorry.

[carolineislands]

There is one thing that the Muslim internet proselytizers, the videos of prayer time at the mosques, and the people talking about what a blessing it is to be born in Islam all have in common.

Can you guess what it is?