Is America A Christian Nation ???

[I AM ALL I AM]

"The proportion of the [American] population that can be classified as Christian has declined from 86% in 1990 to 77% in 2001." ARIS Study. 4
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm

Main religious preferences of Americans

According to the CIA,[6] the following is the order of religious preferences in the United States:

* Christian: (78.5%)
o Protestant (51.3%)
o Roman Catholic (23.9%)
o Mormon (1.7%)
o other Christian (1.6%)
* unaffiliated (12.1%)
* none (4%)
* other or unspecified (2.5%)
* Jewish (1.7%)
* Buddhist (0.7%)
* Muslim (0.6%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_i ... ted_States

..... the actual number of overweight or obese people in America, according to the National Institutes of Health (NIH) is much larger - about 60% .....
http://www.center4research.org/wmnshlth ... esity.html

Gluttony (Latin, gula)

Derived from the Latin gluttire, meaning to gulp down or swallow, gluttony is the over-indulgence and over-consumption of anything to the point of waste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

The Seven Deadly Sins:
Lust
Gluttony
Greed
Sloth
Wrath
Envy
Pride

If the above statistics are correct, can America be called a 'christian nation' when there are 60% (some studies say more) of the population committing one of the 'seven deadly sins', that of gluttony ???

If so, would this mean that you can be a 'sinner' and still be considered christian ???

If not, does this mean that anyone claiming to be a christian that sins is not truly a christian ???

Or, is the claim of being christian enough to be considered a christian (as in George Bush claiming to be a christian) without having to follow the tenets of the faith ???

Or, is belief in 'Jesus Christ' all that is required to be considered a christian and not the actual following of the tenets of faith ???

[I AM ALL I AM]

i personally don't believe that america is a "christian" nation.
first, because there is freedom of religion here. we don't have a theocracy (thank god!) we can each choose our own religion, or lack of religion, and theres nothing illegal about it. just because the majority is christian doesn't mean that it's a christian nation. america is a melting pot of cultures, beliefs, and ideas. i think thats what makes america great!=)

G'day Indie_girl.

Thanks for your response.

Personally, I think that the claim from many christians that America is a christian nation is as false as their claims about 'God', 'Jesus', the bible, etc.

Further, I see it as an attempt to manipulate others into following their dogmatic beliefs and create a theocracy.

Considering that many of the 'founding fathers' were actually masons, there appears to be a concerted effort by christians to propagate a false belief as to the founding of the country and its current, in a religious context, role as a nation.

[I AM ALL I AM]

Hi I Am,

There is no such thing as a "Christian" nation. Jesus himself said "My kingdom is not of this world."

Also, to be saved one must repent of his sins and place his faith in Jesus. The "tenets of the faith" will follow if he/she is walking in the Spirit.

Skyler

G'day Skyler.

By the teachings of christianity, the bible, 'Jesus', as claimed by christians, that would also be my understanding. Which is one reason why I posed the question.

It also makes the claim of many apparent christians, that of America being a christian nation, false, which in itself is considered a sin - bearing false witness.

If repenting your "sins" is necessary, does this mean that it is an ongoing process that determines whether you are a christian or not ???

Would this also mean that the only time that you can actually be a christian is immediately after having repented of your sins and prior to committing the next sin ???

For surely, with the understanding that you can only be a christian if you have accepted 'Jesus' as your saviour and repented of your sins, then between the moment that you commit a sin and the moment that you repent of it, you could not be considered a christian because you have rejected the teachings of 'Jesus' by committing a sin.

Thus, at any given moment, the actual numbers of christians is in fluctuation determined by the committing of sin and the time it is the taken for the repenting of the sin.

Therefore, can it even be said with any accuracy that America is predominantly christian, when the 'membership' is in a constant state of fluctuation ???

Also, considering the statistic of obesity and its correlation with the sin of gluttony, then at any given time, 60+% of America is in a state of not being christian (as they are in a state of sinning) and therefore christianity is not the predominant religion of the country.

Further, any apparent christian claiming otherwise would be bearing false witness, thus further reducing those that could honestly claim to be considered christian (i.e. they had repented of their sins and not yet committed another).

[Ogar]

Wow, I AM, I really appreciate and agree with your logic. Unfortunately, in my experience, Christians do not tend to apply logic and reason to their beliefs or their labels. Maybe my experience has been misleading and there are a lot of Christians out there who use logic when deciding what they believe and how to define themselves, but I think that if they were using logic they'd stop being Christians in a pretty big hurry.

[Avariel]

If repenting your "sins" is necessary, does this mean that it is an ongoing process that determines whether you are a christian or not ???

Would this also mean that the only time that you can actually be a christian is immediately after having repented of your sins and prior to committing the next sin ???

For surely, with the understanding that you can only be a christian if you have accepted 'Jesus' as your saviour and repented of your sins, then between the moment that you commit a sin and the moment that you repent of it, you could not be considered a christian because you have rejected the teachings of 'Jesus' by committing a sin.

Thus, at any given moment, the actual numbers of christians is in fluctuation determined by the committing of sin and the time it is the taken for the repenting of the sin.

This is an interesting concept and I've rarely seen it brought up this way before, although it's not uncommon amongst theologians. But I think John 3:16 sets out the clarification for being "saved."

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

I think a lot of Christians argue about this topic, but the prerequisites, at least for salvation, are simply belief. The repentence of sin is nonetheless necessary, but it would be a little ridiculous (notwithstanding that the entire thing seems a bit ridiculous to me, but that's not the point) to constantly have people fluctuating in and out of states of grace and salvation and sin and mayhem and chaos so your status as "saved" or "not saved" is constantly changing every second like some mad roller coaster of holiness and you're essentially playing Russian Roulette with death, hopefully getting the cycle right so that you're "saved" right as you die and you slip into heaven with no one the wiser! Now that would take some mad skills.

When I was a Christian, my idea of what a Christian was was someone who had been redeemed in the manner stated in the Bible verse above. I think repentence is supposed to be looked at as an ongoing process, as a method of changing one's life from a careless one to a self-reflecting and purposeful one, and this is not a process that happens overnight, in any religion. So while you do bring up a decent argumentative point, as far as Christians are concerned I doubt that it was meant that you must be repented of every single sin you've committed up to the tenths of the second or else you're not truly a Christian.

Also, considering the statistic of obesity and its correlation with the sin of gluttony, then at any given time, 60+% of America is in a state of not being christian (as they are in a state of sinning) and therefore christianity is not the predominant religion of the country.

It's interesting, though, that obesity is brought up; because I know a lot of people who have genetically gifted metabolisms that allow them to still partake in "gluttony" (and trust me, it's gluttony to it's most exalted sense; my best friend is vietnamese, she weighs about 112 pounds, and we tracked her caloric intake one week; she eats between 3000 and 4000 calories a day!!!) I think again you need to look at the spirit of the law and not just the letter, for people can partake in overindulgence without vast physical ramifications; and there are also those that are very much overweight , and gluttony isn't the culprit. In fact the latter group of people could be the very essence of self-restraint and moderation, but sadly their bodies can blow up to 215 pounds on an 1800 calorie a day diet.

[I AM ALL I AM]

Wow, I AM, I really appreciate and agree with your logic. Unfortunately, in my experience, Christians do not tend to apply logic and reason to their beliefs or their labels. Maybe my experience has been misleading and there are a lot of Christians out there who use logic when deciding what they believe and how to define themselves, but I think that if they were using logic they'd stop being Christians in a pretty big hurry.

G'day Ogar.

You have it correct. If logic was applied by said christians, they would stop being christians. Which means that we can safely say that anyone claiming to be a christian does not comprehend logic, or comprehends logic but suspends the application of logic to their beliefs.

Obviously this has arisen previously and is why it is considered a matter of 'faith'. It is also why there is the saying "blind faith". Faith obviously blinds the christian follower to logic.

[I AM ALL I AM]

G'day Avariel.

For me, this is a question of applying simple logic to the equation. By simple logic, I mean that it is uncomplicated with extraneous issues. For instance, a progression of whole numbers, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, can easily be seen and recognised. Each movement from one number to the next displays a logical progression. The progression of understanding of the belief system of christianity (as many fully understand) does not follow simple logic.

Now, if salvation is aquired simply by believing in Jesus, then all of the churches, rituals, interpretations of the bible, etc, etc, are complications of an extraneous nature. That is, they are not logical for they do not fit into the progression that leads to salvation.

Thus all other questions arising about whose denomination is correct, which bible is the true bible, who has authority to speak on behalf of 'Jesus'/'God', etc, etc, are not only NOT logical, they are obviously an attempt to control individual thoughts, actions, words and the interaction of each and every individual. Therefore, it becomes obvious, through simple logic, that the christian religion/cult is a fascist institution intent on controlling individuals for the benefit of those that claim to be in charge of the religion/cult, with the purpose of maintaining that control to the detriment of those following the religion/cult.

Below is some documentation logically showing the cult aspects that christianity so obviously displays .....

According to the Grolier Encyclopedia, brainwashing involves two aspects: the confession of past crimes or errors, and re-education to new beliefs. Victims of brainwashing are "brought to confess" by "isolation from familiar surroundings", and a "routine requiring absolute obedience and humility", and "social pressure" from other victims with whom they are in contact. "The last includes mutual criticism and self-criticism sessions, which play particularly on the generalized guilt feeling that all people have to some extent. At the same time regular indoctrination sessions are conducted. The acceptance of the new ideas is again fostered by group pressure and the anticipated reward of freedom."

These are the methods of Christianity.

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/cult_of_christianity.html

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".

9. The group/leader is always right.

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.

2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.

3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".

4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.

5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.

6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.

7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.

9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.

10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html

So, the extraneous beliefs spouted by christians are merely attempts to indoctrinate others into the cult that the ones sputing those beliefs find themselves entrapped within. For if it only requires a belief in 'Jesus' to have salvation, then all other aspects of the christian religion/cult are null and void.

Hence, if it is that only a belief in 'Jesus' is required, then the enslaved have become the enslavers when they attempt to convert others to the christian religion/cult.

Further, claims of being a "good christian" would obviously be a claim of being an enslaver of others.

[Skyler]

You have it correct. If logic was applied by said christians, they would stop being christians. Which means that we can safely say that anyone claiming to be a christian does not comprehend logic, or comprehends logic but suspends the application of logic to their beliefs.

Obviously this has arisen previously and is why it is considered a matter of 'faith'. It is also why there is the saying "blind faith". Faith obviously blinds the christian follower to logic.

Christians aren't the only ones susceptible to blind faith. See our thread on logic in the Philosophy thread.

If logic was applied to non-theists, they would be forced to concede that their position is illogical. Unfortunately they resort to blind faith and say "it just works".

[ChristianGuy]

Is this about "logic" or is it about the U.S. being a Christian Nation? I think that the term "Christian Nation" is probably a reference to the overall religions in the U.S. Out of all of them, the larger part of them claim to be Christian. I say claim because not all who "claim" to be something are truly that. Out of all of the different religions in this nation, and based on the claims of those specific people of the different churches, I would say that the U.S. could be described as a "Christian" Nation. When I watch the news, I feel differently as it appears that this nation has lost sight of morality (the Christian standard, that is) which would indicate to me that we are becoming less and less of a “Christian� Nation. I would say that only part of the "Christians" are true Christians, so that percentage may not be very accurate. Now, considering that the belief in nothing is not in itself a "belief," there are probably a lot more non-theist out there than one might think.

[I AM ALL I AM]

You have it correct. If logic was applied by said christians, they would stop being christians. Which means that we can safely say that anyone claiming to be a christian does not comprehend logic, or comprehends logic but suspends the application of logic to their beliefs.

Obviously this has arisen previously and is why it is considered a matter of 'faith'. It is also why there is the saying "blind faith". Faith obviously blinds the christian follower to logic.

Christians aren't the only ones susceptible to blind faith. See our thread on logic in the Philosophy thread.

If logic was applied to non-theists, they would be forced to concede that their position is illogical. Unfortunately they resort to blind faith and say "it just works".

G'day Skyler.

Once again I would agree with you.

I'll have a look for that thread and have a read of it.

[I AM ALL I AM]

... I would say that the U.S. could be described as a "Christian" Nation.

G'day ChristianGuy.

Not only "would" you say it, you have.

Now, it "could" be called anything, which doesn't mean that it IS actually what it is being called.

Do you have any reasoning as to why you "would" and have called America a christian nation ???

Or are you simply repeating a term that you have heard bandied about by others without contemplating the implications of the term and what it actually means ???