Male abortion?

[Evales]

This question is directed to people who think that abortion is a right of a woman. That she should have a choice.

If you are going to debate in this topic I would like you to debate within the hypothetical world where the woman has a choice of abortion.

So to continue
If a woman has the right to abort then why does the man not? If a woman chooses to have the baby who are we to force the man to pay child support. To people created this child. How come only one person has the right to remove it?

I propose that men should have the right to abort from a pregnancy. When having sex both partners should know that should they conceive the other has the right of removal just as much as them.

Question for debate:
Should men have the right to abortion?
Why/ Why not?

[Evales]

I meant that if a man chooses to have no contact, responsibility for, or interaction with his child, he can sign his paternal rights over the mother, at least in Washington State. Granted he has no say in weather or not said child can be born, until men endure pregnancy and labor this will be solely the right of the mother, but after the birth he always has a choice in his level of involvement.

Does this mean that he does not have to pay child support? Are their other signatures that are needed to be had such as the woman's or someone of higher power. Do you know the name of this type of document so I can find out more?

[ravenssong]

I meant that if a man chooses to have no contact, responsibility for, or interaction with his child, he can sign his paternal rights over the mother, at least in Washington State. Granted he has no say in weather or not said child can be born, until men endure pregnancy and labor this will be solely the right of the mother, but after the birth he always has a choice in his level of involvement.

Does this mean that he does not have to pay child support? Are their other signatures that are needed to be had such as the woman's or someone of higher power. Do you know the name of this type of document so I can find out more?

The mother has to sign also (agreeing that she wants to be a single parent). After a father signs over his right he does not pay child support.
It's a court issue so I imagine that before it is finalized the judge has to sign it to.
I'm not sure what the WAC (Washington Administrative Code) number is, but I know people who have been involved in cases like this. I will look around for you and see if I can find a link to the law.

[Evales]

See that's the problem with it. The woman has to sign. Whereas a man has absolutely no say in an abortion. Whilst I think that the right to abort is the woman's only. I think that she should understand that if the man doesn't want to be there he shouldn't have to be. The way it is at the moment the man doesn't really have his own choice.

[ravenssong]

See that's the problem with it. The woman has to sign. Whereas a man has absolutely no say in an abortion. Whilst I think that the right to abort is the woman's only. I think that she should understand that if the man doesn't want to be there he shouldn't have to be. The way it is at the moment the man doesn't really have his own choice.

good point! I shoulda've seen that coming *LOL*

[Greatest I Am]

This question is directed to people who think that abortion is a right of a woman. That she should have a choice.

If you are going to debate in this topic I would like you to debate within the hypothetical world where the woman has a choice of abortion.

So to continue
If a woman has the right to abort then why does the man not? If a woman chooses to have the baby who are we to force the man to pay child support. To people created this child. How come only one person has the right to remove it?

I propose that men should have the right to abort from a pregnancy. When having sex both partners should know that should they conceive the other has the right of removal just as much as them.

Question for debate:
Should men have the right to abortion?
Why/ Why not?

No. Men should not have that right.

Why. Because they are the cause of the pregnancy. They are in control of their reproductive systems. If they think that there is no responsibility attached to their actions then they are stupid and wrong. At one time men were proud of any and all offspring. Unfortunately that is not the case today.

Men, the proud responsible men of the past, no longer exist except in some of us. Most now run from responsibility. Unfortunate.

Humans have always paid for their pleasure. They should in this case as well. When my boys were growing up, I would tell them that the price they would pay for a mistake was about $100,000 and to keep both their peker and their money in their pocket.

Be a good human, support your children with pride. Do not expect others to carry the load for you. Be a MAN.

Regards
DL

[Zzyzx]

.

No. Men should not have that right.

I agree that men should not have a right to control abortions. That should be the woman's decision in consultation with her physician (and perhaps with consideration of the father's wishes to an extent determined by the woman). It is her body that bears the pregnancy – and the right of decision in my opinion.

I do not recognize any right of any person to decide what the woman is to do regarding ANYTHING inside her body.

Why. Because they are the cause of the pregnancy.

It is my observation that pregnancy results from the actions of TWO people – each of which should be responsible for the outcome.

They are in control of their reproductive systems.

Males and females CAN be in control of their reproductive systems by decision and action. Many choose to do so, many choose to not do so. Such is life.

If they think that there is no responsibility attached to their actions then they are stupid and wrong.

I agree (for both parties)

At one time men were proud of any and all offspring.

I question this claim. Can you cite evidence that this is true?

I observe no major change in my lifetime. On what evidence do you base this statement? Is it just a "feeling" or something that "everybody knows"? How do you measure accurately the amount of "pride" to which you refer? If it cannot be measured one cannot confidently claim that it increases or decreases. Do you agree?

Unfortunately that is not the case today.

Can you show evidence that men are less proud of their offspring today?

Men, the proud responsible men of the past, no longer exist

Document?

except in some of us.

I see . . . . you are proud and responsible . . . but most(?) others are not? (At least that seems to be what you are implying). I am not so sure about the absence of pride and responsibility in the masses OR that you represent an exception.

Most now run from responsibility. Unfortunate.

Are you SURE that is different today? Is that a worldwide phenomena?

Humans have always paid for their pleasure.

Oh? Can one not take pleasure in things that do not require payment?

They should in this case as well. When my boys were growing up, I would tell them that the price they would pay for a mistake was about $100,000 and to keep both their peker and their money in their pocket.

When my son and daughter were young I advised BOTH of them to avoid unwanted pregnancies and to be responsible for their actions. I, also, emphasized the monetary cost of mistakes (but used higher figures). However, I stressed even more the personal cost of parenthood.

I might add a little here to give perspective. My children were born within a marriage but against my wishes. My wife and I had agreed that we would avoid having children for five years (to allow time for me to go to college). She agreed to be responsible for using a diaphragm (in earliest times) then birth control pills when they became available (a few months after we were married).

Our daughter was born a year after we married and our son eighteen months after that – nearly as quickly as possible. At first I was told that these were "accidents" but years later she acknowledged that they were, instead, "insurance for the marriage" (and a "gift" to her mother who longed to become a grandmother).

In spite of that deception and the difficulty it presented in my pursuit of an education, I took full responsibility for the children as best I knew for a father to act. Those people are nearing fifty years old now and have offspring nearing thirty who probably have offspring nearing puberty (I don't keep up with such matters).

Did my son and daughter heed my advice to avoid unwanted pregnancy? Heck no. They did what humans do – and had sexual relations. They were not careful enough to avoid pregnancy and BOTH of them made "mistakes". They both seemed to accept their responsibility and to be "proud parents".

Be a good human, support your children with pride. Do not expect others to carry the load for you. Be a MAN.

I am surprised and disappointed, GIA, to witness you attempting to be macho and emotional. One can discuss responsibility without such emotionalism.

[Flail]

In most States,the Court will not bastardize a child...ie,remove a father and his obligations of support unless there is another to take his place by adoption....the Court may limit his contact with the child if he is abusive or unfit,but will not punish a child by taking away the child right to recieve support from the parents that were involved in creating him......it is typically handled on a case by case basis...but the short answer is that if you plant your seed or if seed is planted within you ..and if a born child results,you will be obligated to support that child thru minority until age 18.

child support judgements agaist a father or mother typically do not go away and may be collected as delinquent jugements by the child within a reasonable time after gaining majority....for all past due court ordered child support.

[Evales]

No. Men should not have that right.

Why. Because they are the cause of the pregnancy.

Two people cause a pregnancy and yet (for the purposes of this debate) one has the chance to remove it after the fact while the other does not, I'm not proposing that the man is allowed to abort the child rather abort himself from responsibility. Ie. Not paying child support or seeing the child.

They are in control of their reproductive systems. If they think that there is no responsibility attached to their actions then they are stupid and wrong.

Both people are responsible, not just the man.

Be a good human, support your children with pride. Do not expect others to carry the load for you. Be a MAN.

Why is this allowance not sexism?

[guy fawkes]

No. Men should not have that right.

Why. Because they are the cause of the pregnancy.

Two people cause a pregnancy and yet (for the purposes of this debate) one has the chance to remove it after the fact while the other does not, I'm not proposing that the man is allowed to abort the child rather abort himself from responsibility. Ie. Not paying child support or seeing the child.

They are in control of their reproductive systems. If they think that there is no responsibility attached to their actions then they are stupid and wrong.

Both people are responsible, not just the man.

Be a good human, support your children with pride. Do not expect others to carry the load for you. Be a MAN.

Why is this allowance not sexism?

HAIL TO THE KING!!!!
I am with Evales 110%, THIS IS JUST COMMON SENSE.

If the man wants no responsobility but the woman want to keep it, FINE, AS LONG AS THE MAN NO LONGER HAS TO PAY THE CHILD SUPPORT. THIS IS A FAIR TRADE.


Thank you Evales for showing some common sense. Sweet mother of God...

[Flail]

It is wrong headed,IMO,for a father to disclaim responsibility for his offspring simply because the female in the dance has decided to keep the child. It is not about the man and the woman from the point of birth, but about the child and the child's right and the man's obligation to take care of his mess. The man knew or should have known of the possibility of birth when he carelessly deposited his seed. I am pro choice,but once the choice is made and we have a child, the duty flows to both parents.