Jesus Camp Documentary

[Lionspoint]

People argue both ways for this movie. The religious right can see it as a positive tool to bring moderates to becoming "real" Christians. Atheists such as myself can find it somewhere between humorous and tragic. I can't help but laugh at certain points but I feel so bad for those kids throughout most of the movie.

So the questions to everyone out there are:

Does Jesus Camp show evangelical and charismatic Christianity in a positive light?

Does this documentary show phsychological abuse against children?

[Confused]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim? Credible ones preferably. And please, define what "mindless indoctrination" actually encompasses.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim?

Doesn't the inherent subjectivity of that statement make that pointless? It is clearly a representation of his viewpoint, and, as such, does not require someone else agreeing with him to be valid.

[Confused]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim?

Doesn't the inherent subjectivity of that statement make that pointless? It is clearly a representation of his viewpoint, and, as such, does not require someone else agreeing with him to be valid.

If this was in the discussion forum, then opinions are fine. It, however, is in the debate forum. Therefore declarations of what constitutes child abuse should have some validity to it and should by rights, be verifiable as fact or as close to fact as reasoning and evidence would allow us to reach.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim?

Doesn't the inherent subjectivity of that statement make that pointless? It is clearly a representation of his viewpoint, and, as such, does not require someone else agreeing with him to be valid.

If this was in the discussion forum, then opinions are fine. It, however, is in the debate forum. Therefore declarations of what constitutes child abuse should have some validity to it and should by rights, be verifiable as fact or as close to fact as reasoning and evidence would allow us to reach.

True, but why must he cite some outside resource? Justification can, and probably should be asked for given that this is a debate forum, but it seems to me that the justification could come simply from whatever thought process lead him to this conclusion.

Anyways, I feel I'm on the verge of hijacking this topic, so I'll try to limit my responses on the topic, or save them for a more appropriate time and place.

[McCulloch]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim? Credible ones preferably. And please, define what "mindless indoctrination" actually encompasses.

I agree with Flail. "Mindless indoctrination" without actually giving any examples, of children is abuse of their freedom to grow into thinking responsible adults.

[Lionspoint]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Daniel Dennett has given the best advice I have heard so far with regards to teaching children about religion. Provide the facts of all the religions, the history, the beliefs and so on without invoking any one of them to being superior, in an unbiased manner and let the children evaluate them and decide for themselves what they think is true. He says that all children should learn this, in public schools, private schools, homeschooling, in primary and high schools.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim? Credible ones preferably. And please, define what "mindless indoctrination" actually encompasses.

Telling a child they are going to hell forever if they don't get right with god is psychological abuse to the point of evil lunacy. A credible resource for this claim is that I was taught that and it took me several YEARS to finally get over it. And as a child it was quite terrifying.

Mindless indoctrination for me would be using faith, something which by definition is belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof and using that to bully small children into obedience.

[Cathar1950]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Daniel Dennett has given the best advice I have heard so far with regards to teaching children about religion. Provide the facts of all the religions, the history, the beliefs and so on without invoking any one of them to being superior, in an unbiased manner and let the children evaluate them and decide for themselves what they think is true. He says that all children should learn this, in public schools, private schools, homeschooling, in primary and high schools.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim? Credible ones preferably. And please, define what "mindless indoctrination" actually encompasses.

Telling a child they are going to hell forever if they don't get right with god is psychological abuse to the point of evil lunacy. A credible resource for this claim is that I was taught that and it took me several YEARS to finally get over it. And as a child it was quite terrifying.

Mindless indoctrination for me would be using faith, something which by definition is belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof and using that to bully small children into obedience.

I remember when I was 7 or 8 dreaming that I was sent to hell and woke up in a hot sleeping bag.
I don't recall ever using threats of Hell on my children.
Many believers fell doubt is enough to send them to hell where God has prepared a place for those that question the unbelievable.

[Lionspoint]

I don't recall ever using threats of Hell on my children.

If you ever sent your children to a Christian church, they almost certainly heard of hell.

Many believers feel doubt is enough to send them to hell where God has prepared a place for those that question the unbelievable.

This assumption is the foundation of my total lack of belief in the biblical god. Inifinite punishment for finite crimes is devoid of rational thought, let alone compassion and forgiveness.

[Confused]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim? Credible ones preferably. And please, define what "mindless indoctrination" actually encompasses.

I agree with Flail. "Mindless indoctrination" without actually giving any examples, of children is abuse of their freedom to grow into thinking responsible adults.

Great, then can you please describe "mindless indoctrination"? Since you agree with him, I would assume you can tell me what this encompasses so I can understand whether it is a subjective or objective criteria being used to quantify child abuse.

[Confused]

Any mindless indoctrination with spiritual dogma of children is child abuse.

Daniel Dennett has given the best advice I have heard so far with regards to teaching children about religion. Provide the facts of all the religions, the history, the beliefs and so on without invoking any one of them to being superior, in an unbiased manner and let the children evaluate them and decide for themselves what they think is true. He says that all children should learn this, in public schools, private schools, homeschooling, in primary and high schools.

I would agree with you here. But that isn't mindless indoctrination.

Can you please cite your resources for this claim? Credible ones preferably. And please, define what "mindless indoctrination" actually encompasses.

Telling a child they are going to hell forever if they don't get right with god is psychological abuse to the point of evil lunacy. A credible resource for this claim is that I was taught that and it took me several YEARS to finally get over it. And as a child it was quite terrifying.

This I would agree with and it could very well be seen as negative reinforcement.

Mindless indoctrination for me would be using faith, something which by definition is belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof and using that to bully small children into obedience.

Ok, I see what you are saying here. Using it as a tool to control someone in a negative way can be a form of abuse, yes.