Hello all, I'm new.

[Reflectionist]

Hey, I'm Reflectionist. You can call me Ref, or Jake. I've been looking for a forum that I can discuss ideals of Christianity and learn some things at the same time, while staying under an 'umbrella of mercy.' I'm at a point in life right now where I'm trying to find stuff out for myself, regarding God... I've been a Christian for a while, but now it's not quite working for me, and I'm trying to figure out why.

I need this place, I think... my Christian friends and mentors think I'm abandoning them and creating my own theology, and my Atheist friends and mentors think I'm too stupid and indoctrinated to be of any use to them, so I haven't been getting any help anywhere. Even from other forums online, they're all waaaaaaay biased.

I hope this is not Waaaaaaaaaaaay biased.

Anyway, enough ranting. That's me. See ya around.

-- Jake --

[Reflectionist]

...I'm sorry, but that's not how it is at all. I've tried those things. They don't work. When I do them, I feel stupid at best. I've even thought the very same thoughts that you've posted. They don't work. I've been up and down and side to side debating for the existence of God, and I can't believe it at all. I know all of the arguments front to back. They're silly, and there are many more explanations to the contrary that are actually testable, actually palpable, visible.

God? There's nothing there for that. Just... other people's word. And other people are susceptible to lying, and being manipulative, and mental disorders. And being extremely gullible.

Don't give up, the Bible says...

7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

Prayer is the most that you can do for now. Believing in God is not something that a person can do on their own, it has to be given to you by God. And I know that one day he will give it you. Jesus said...

65 He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 "You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."

Even people who were with Jesus himself felt the way you do, there is just some things you have to go through before you believe.
You are very intelligent and rational, and those qualities can become road blocks when trying to know God.
Remember the movie "The Karate Kid" in it Ralph Macchio's character was going to learn karate from the expert Miyagi, but instead Miyagi put him to work doing all the chores around the house, in order to build his character and only then was he ready to learn karate.
To know God we need to develop a day to day relationship with him, God is not a theory that we need to defend, he can defend himself just fine. It is more important to share our relationship with God to others, we must learn to love others then we will find God and ourselves.
Here is a site that may help you in debating those pesky atheists.

I asked; didn't receive. I knocked; no one was home. The Bible may very well be a work of mythological fiction. There's no proof that says it's valuable for anything at all either. Just other fallible people. Not to mention there are bazillions of directly contradictory statements.

Deuteronomy 23:1 and Matthew 19:12.... are we allowed to have genitalia or not? The Bible isn't clear.

[olavisjo]

Deuteronomy 23:1 and Matthew 19:12.... are we allowed to have genitalia or not? The Bible isn't clear.

The Deuteronomy verse has been used to exclude transgendered people, but I say "all are welcome to the Kingdom of God". Come as you are, God will not reject anyone.
What you are doing is similar to what the religious leaders did back when Jesus was in the world. They got so detailed about the wording of the Bible that they missed what it was saying. They caught Jesus healing people on the Sabbath, which was technically a violation of the 4th commandment. And Jesus kept doing it just p.o. the Pharisees.

I asked; didn't receive. I knocked; no one was home. The Bible may very well be a work of mythological fiction. There's no proof that says it's valuable for anything at all either. Just other fallible people. Not to mention there are bazillions of directly contradictory statements.

Becoming a Christian is not just changing an opinion in your mind like becoming a Democrat or Republican. But rather you are born again and you become a new creature.

5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You[c] must be born again.'

After you are born again, the Spirit of God will come and live inside you and communicate to you in mysterious ways.

13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

If after all that you still find the Bible to be a work of mythological fiction. Then you may want to look for something else, but you may agree with Peter.

68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

There are a lot of lifestyles out there, you may want to dedicate yourself to your work and raise a family and save up for a comfortable retirement, or explore Eastern religions, or alter your mind with drugs and end up homeless, or study science and try to find the next big thing like a cure for cancer.
You are at the age that all roads are open to you, just be true to yourself.
My advice is, do the hard and unpleasant things first and the easy fun stuff last.
But whatever you do, it is best if you do it with God.

[Reflectionist]

Please don't Bible thump me. It does me no good if I don't believe in the validity of it. Quoting pages and pages of scripture, is like quoting the Cat in the Hat to get someone to change their paradigm on life. And it's just more effort for you. I don't care about what the Bible says, I once did. I don't anymore. I know the so-called path to salvation, there's no need to preach it into my face. That will only cause dissent, and anger, and really won't be productive at all.

[bernee51]

[quote="olavisjo
But whatever you do, it is best if you do it with God.[/quote]

Yes - but which god?

So many gods- so little time.

[justifyothers]

Hey, I'm Reflectionist. You can call me Ref, or Jake. I've been looking for a forum that I can discuss ideals of Christianity and learn some things at the same time, while staying under an 'umbrella of mercy.' I'm at a point in life right now where I'm trying to find stuff out for myself, regarding God... I've been a Christian for a while, but now it's not quite working for me, and I'm trying to figure out why.

I need this place, I think... my Christian friends and mentors think I'm abandoning them and creating my own theology, and my Atheist friends and mentors think I'm too stupid and indoctrinated to be of any use to them, so I haven't been getting any help anywhere. Even from other forums online, they're all waaaaaaay biased.

I hope this is not Waaaaaaaaaaaay biased.

Anyway, enough ranting. That's me. See ya around.

-- Jake --

Glad you're here!! This has been a good place to learn & discuss for me - hope it's the same for you
Karen

[olavisjo]

Please don't Bible thump me. It does me no good if I don't believe in the validity of it. Quoting pages and pages of scripture, is like quoting the Cat in the Hat to get someone to change their paradigm on life. And it's just more effort for you. I don't care about what the Bible says, I once did. I don't anymore. I know the so-called path to salvation, there's no need to preach it into my face. That will only cause dissent, and anger, and really won't be productive at all.

Are you so easily offended by the Bible? You are not alone, most people are.
Can I ask you how long you have been a Christian and how you became one?
I will tell you my story. It was not at all dramatic as some are, it was about November 15, 1978. I was 19 and a hard core atheist, I believed that science was the answer to all our problems, or the only hope for an answer. I used to make fun of Christians and their silly superstition and them reading a little too much into their Bibles. I was in the US Navy and our ship was in dry dock to be totally refurbished, my job was to remove the old paint from the walls and ceilings (bulkheads and overheads). It was hard work to hold heavy needle guns and disk sanders up all day long for 11 hours a day in the 100 plus heat of a Long Beach summer.
I had been very good in science and math at school and I had wanted to go to college and become a scientist or computer engineer, but out of anger towards my father I joined the Navy and I was now trapped in a place I could not get out of.
Some of my friends had introduced me to drugs mostly pot and I found that the drugs could relive me of the depression that I was in due to my Navy prison sentence. I did understand that drugs were only a temporary solution, and I wanted to find a real and permanent solution to the basic problem of my misery, and I found a book that promised to do just that, I don't remember the book but it was about Eastern Religions, I did not really believe that it would work and seemed like it would be a lot of study and devotion to self brainwash myself into finding Nirvana, it just opened my mind to the idea that there may be more to life than what science can provide.
So, on that Wednesday in 1978 I woke up an atheist and before I went to bed I was a Christian. I don't remember what caused the change, I just know that I did change. From that day on I knew that God is, and my life has not been the same.
That was the greatest moment in my life, and when I ask why it happened to me, I can only look back to a moment 5 years before. I wanted to study math over the summer so I talked my father into enrolling me in a private school called "The King's Academy" in Palm Beach Florida. I wanted to study math but the reason I chose that school was because I saw the girls from there in the public library, wearing the plaid skirts that private schools are known for, they were hot.
At the Academy we had to sit through a half hour of indoctrination and Bible thumping every morning, it did not bother me all that much it was just plain boring, but school is supposed to be boring.
Then one day I was in the back of the school bus talking to a young Japanese kid named David and we got into a conversation about how a person becomes a Christian and he just told me that I can become one right now by just repeating some words that he said. I did not think that it would change me but I did it anyway, I don't remember the exact words but it had to do with admitting I was a sinner and asking God to forgive me and inviting Jesus to come and live in me. It was all pretty corny stuff and if anybody else had been in that bus, I don't think that I could have gone through with it.
And that was it, that is all I had to do to become a Christian, now I know that I will live with God forever.

David, if you read this "Thank You" I will see you in Heaven, if not sooner.

[zepper899]

Before Reflectionist runs away thinking this site is another dittytalk.com, just know that there are many atheists here as well. You can learn a lot through reading the threads, so don't run away if some posters make the forum seem more biased. It is surprisingly even.

[Reflectionist]

Before Reflectionist runs away thinking this site is another dittytalk.com, just know that there are many atheists here as well. You can learn a lot through reading the threads, so don't run away if some posters make the forum seem more biased. It is surprisingly even.

Well, yeah, I know this. I was merely regarding on the ineffectiveness of using the Bible as a source to present a point to me when I'm questioning the validity of the Bible at all.

[Zzyzx]

.

I will tell you my story. . . .

I had been very good in science and math at school and I had wanted to go to college and become a scientist or computer engineer, but out of anger towards my father I joined the Navy . . . . .

Some of my friends had introduced me to drugs mostly pot and I found that the drugs could relive me of the depression that I was in due to my Navy prison sentence. . . . . .

So, on that Wednesday in 1978 I woke up an atheist and before I went to bed I was a Christian. I don't remember what caused the change, I just know that I did change. From that day on I knew that God is, and my life has not been the same. . . . .

I wanted to study math over the summer so I talked my father into enrolling me in a private school called "The King's Academy" in Palm Beach Florida. I wanted to study math but the reason I chose that school was because I saw the girls from there in the public library, wearing the plaid skirts that private schools are known for, they were hot. . . . .

Then one day I was in the back of the school bus talking to a young Japanese kid named David and we got into a conversation about how a person becomes a Christian and he just told me that I can become one right now by just repeating some words that he said. I did not think that it would change me but I did it anyway, I don't remember the exact words but it had to do with admitting I was a sinner and asking God to forgive me and inviting Jesus to come and live in me. It was all pretty corny stuff and if anybody else had been in that bus, I don't think that I could have gone through with it. . . . .

The story related demonstrates a series of decisions made on the basis of emotion rather than reason.

1. Career decision (entering military rather than pursuing math and engineering) based on anger toward one’s father.

2. Choosing a place to study math based upon the “hot” girls.

3. Entering the Navy as an enlisted person rather than qualifying to be an officer (and thus encountering the hard work of chipping paint and the “prison sentence”).

4. Being persuaded by friends and environment to escape real life problems by using recreational drugs.

5. And, a magical conversion to Christianity without any reason – just repeating some words.

6. Being convinced that god exists while acknowledging a lack of reason

I am not surprised.

[Vanguard]

Hey, I'm Reflectionist. You can call me Ref, or Jake. I've been looking for a forum that I can discuss ideals of Christianity and learn some things at the same time, while staying under an 'umbrella of mercy.' I'm at a point in life right now where I'm trying to find stuff out for myself, regarding God... I've been a Christian for a while, but now it's not quite working for me, and I'm trying to figure out why.

I need this place, I think... my Christian friends and mentors think I'm abandoning them and creating my own theology, and my Atheist friends and mentors think I'm too stupid and indoctrinated to be of any use to them, so I haven't been getting any help anywhere. Even from other forums online, they're all waaaaaaay biased.

I hope this is not Waaaaaaaaaaaay biased.

Anyway, enough ranting. That's me. See ya around.

-- Jake --

Hello, Reflectionist. Are you questioning the veracity of the Bible or the existence of the supernatural? I'm not clear what your struggle is.