Are Jews going to Hell if they do not accept Jesus?

[cnorman18]

Are Jews going to Hell if they do not accept Jesus as Savior and Lord?

[Easyrider]

I'd say move it. I'm interested in the non-Christians' opinions too.

Thanks.

That wouldn't be me, but Moses and Elijah were on the Mt. of Transfiguration with Jesus, weren't they?

I would assume that Moses and Elijah would get a pass even from antisemites, let alone ordinary goodhearted Christians.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but what about me?

Well, we don't agree. I can point you to verses in the NT that basically say without Christ as your Savior for the remission of your sins (John 8:24; John 3:36; John 14:6; Acts 4:12, etc.), you're going to be in a bad position in the end. It's not that I / Christians are any better than Jews (we all sin), but that we have the Savior that we believe was prophesied in the Tanakh for the remission of our sins.

p.s. And I do hope you make it to heaven. I wish that other place on no one.

[cnorman18]

Well, we don't agree. I can point you to verses in the NT that basically say without Christ as your Savior for the remission of your sins (John 8:24; John 3:36; John 14:6; Acts 4:12, etc.), you're going to be in a bad position in the end. It's not that I / Christians are any better than Jews (we all sin), but that we have the Savior that we believe was prophesied in the Tanakh for the remission of our sins.

p.s. And I do hope you make it to heaven. I wish that other place on no one.

I appreciate that last, and I don't hold your beliefs against you.

Let me ask you this, though: Given that my people in Eastern Europe were surrounded by the likes of Smersh, and were routinely beaten, raped, robbed, falsely accused of crimes, and murdered with impunity by Christians for explicitly religious reasons, what chance do you really think there was that they would embrace the faith of those who persecuted them? The question then begs to be asked: Are the millions of Jews murdered in the name of Christ over the centuries also to be condemned to Hell as further punishment by the God to Whom they strove so hard to be faithful--the same God that you and I both worship?

I believe in a God of justice and mercy.
Can you explain this to me?

I don't ask this to be argumentative or in order to score points in a meaningless Internet debate. This is a real-life question for me, and one of the chief reasons that I left the Christian church and became a Jew. I truly don't think that Christians are bigoted when they profess these beliefs; I just think they have never really thought about them from the viewpoint of Jews.

[Assent]

I sometimes like to think of Jews as the eternally unconquered race.

When the Hebrews were conquered by Babylon, did they assimilate? Did they adjust their gods to place Marduk at the top? No; instead, they formed communities in exile, maintaining their traditions until the Persians came and gave them the freedom to be Hebrews again.

When the Romans conquered Israel and Judah, did they join the Imperial Cult? No; instead they rebelled, and rebelled again, causing the Romans to disperse them, a thing they had (iirc) only done previously to their greatest rivals, the Carthaginians.

In Medieval Europe, they were cursed by the natives as forever being outsiders, forever belonging only to themselves. When the locals turned on them, did they repent? Did they adopt Christianity and blend into the crowd? No; instead they left for another country, refusing to change themselves for the sake of others.

The Hebrew race is still alive, though the genetics have been mixed, and some of the customs have been changed. It is alive because the Jewish religion is alive. They generate anger by refusing to submit to those who demand submission. They generate hatred by refusing to assimilate when those around them demand assimilation. They are forever a country in exile, even though their country has returned.

In the fable about the oak and the reed, they are the oak, though no amount of wind has blown them down.

And for this, I admire them.

[arayhay]

Well, we don't agree. I can point you to verses in the NT that basically say without Christ as your Savior for the remission of your sins (John 8:24; John 3:36; John 14:6; Acts 4:12, etc.), you're going to be in a bad position in the end. It's not that I / Christians are any better than Jews (we all sin), but that we have the Savior that we believe was prophesied in the Tanakh for the remission of our sins.

p.s. And I do hope you make it to heaven. I wish that other place on no one.

I appreciate that last, and I don't hold your beliefs against you.

Let me ask you this, though: Given that my people in Eastern Europe were surrounded by the likes of Smersh, and were routinely beaten, raped, robbed, falsely accused of crimes, and murdered with impunity by Christians for explicitly religious reasons, what chance do you really think there was that they would embrace the faith of those who persecuted them? The question then begs to be asked: Are the millions of Jews murdered in the name of Christ over the centuries also to be condemned to Hell as further punishment by the God to Whom they strove so hard to be faithful--the same God that you and I both worship?

I believe in a God of justice and mercy.
Can you explain this to me?

I don't ask this to be argumentative or in order to score points in a meaningless Internet debate. This is a real-life question for me, and one of the chief reasons that I left the Christian church and became a Jew. I truly don't think that Christians are bigoted when they profess these beliefs; I just think they have never really thought about them from the viewpoint of Jews.

All of the Covenants that God made are with the hebrews/Jews. God blesses the EARTH through these covenants.


Jer 31:27 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and the seed of beast.
Jer 31:28 And it shall come to pass that as I have watched over them to pluck up and break down, to overthrow, destroy, and bring harm, so I will watch over them to build and to plant, declares the LORD.
Jer 31:29 In those days they shall no longer say: "'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.'
Jer 31:30 But everyone shall die for his own sin. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Jer 31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
Jer 31:32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD.
Jer 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
Jer 31:35 Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the LORD of hosts is his name:
Jer 31:36 "If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever."
Jer 31:37 Thus says the LORD: "If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD."
Jer 31:38 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when the city shall be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
Jer 31:39 And the measuring line shall go out farther, straight to the hill Gareb, and shall then turn to Goah.
Jer 31:40 The whole valley of the dead bodies and the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be sacred to the LORD. It shall not be uprooted or overthrown anymore forever."

Some of this has yet to happen. When ALL Israel Knows Yah, when Israel's boarders are as described, when the Torah is written on their hearts, and God dwells with them, then this Covenant with have reached its fullest implication.

[cnorman18]

All of the Covenants that God made are with the hebrews/Jews. God blesses the EARTH through these covenants....


Some of this has yet to happen. When ALL Israel Knows Yah, when Israel's boarders are as described, when the Torah is written on their hearts, and God dwells with them, then this Covenant with have reached its fullest implication.

In Jewish tradition, this will occur at the beginning of the seventh, or Sabbath, millenium, in the Hebrew year 6001. Since this is 5768 on the Hebrew calendar, we have 233 years to go.

This tradition is not well known even to Jews. Like the afterlife, we don't spend a lot of time worrying about the End of Days either. God's business, not ours.

[ken1burton]

God blinded the Jewish Nation from seeing Jesus is the Messiah, So they could not all come if they wanted to:

Isaiah 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

Jesus made a Covenant based on Belief, God voided that Covenant, and concluded all in Unbelief.

Psalms 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
38 But thou hast cast off and abhorred, thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
39 Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.

God likened Jesus to a Woman, To His wife allowing God to void the Covenant or vow Jesus made.

Isaiah 62:5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.

Now as a Covenant based on belief of Jesus, God voided, But God put upon Jesus the iniquity of us all, and Jesus rendered to man, His righteousness seen in Job 33:26. So we do all come to the Father Through Jesus. With all sin removed, and His righteousness on us.

Also hell ended the third day when Jesus with them, were all set free.

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

The day of the Cross is the 1,000 year reign of Christ, the rest of the dead lived not again till the 1,000 years was over, or when Jesus was in hell on the Second day.

Hosea 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.

These are not believers, they do not know Christ, They will follow on to Know Him.

Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sins, Then they had to wait till the third day to be raised up, Hell ceased to exist, seen as Dissolved in Isaiah 14:31. The Chapter that looks at hell.

Isaiah 14:31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

So the Gates of hell did not prevail against Jesus, and the Believers are all IN CHRIST.

Hell did not have to be a physical place, God speaks in Similitudes.

Ken

[alaa_kalala]

Are Jews going to Hell if they do not accept Jesus as Savior and Lord?

Each one who doesn't believe in God will go to Hell forever.

Each one who doesn't believe in Muhammad (or any of the prophets) will go to Hell forever.

Each one who doesn't believe in the Quran which God has revealed to Muhammad by His angel Gabriel will go to Hell forever.

Each one who doesn't believe in the Day of Judgement will go to Hell forever.

Each one who doesn't believe in Angels will go to Hell forever.

Each one who doesn't believe in Fate will go to Hell forever.

These rules are written in Quran, and the Quran is the last holy book God has sent to humanity.

[spiritletter]

No. The idea that Christians have a monopoly on salvation is absurd. And this is without a discussion of exactly what salvation might be.....

[ken1burton]

Alaa_kalala.

All those are going to Hell FOREVER? That is no problem at all. It will not even ruin their day. God speaks in Similitudes, Allah speaks in Similitudes, God hides things, Allah hides things.

Part of what God asks of us is to “Seek My Face, Seek My Name.” This is more then just that, It is for us to search out God till we know what He is like, How He deals with things, What we can expect from a loving God.

God laid upon Jesus the iniquity of us all:

Isaiah 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Those things you spoke of were iniquities, which caused them to go to Hell FOREVER.

God does a strange thing with time, He speaks of “FOR EVER AND EVER” which should be impossible. How can there be a “For Ever” and then have Ever after that?

But God does the same thing with the Word “Everlasting”. And has written “From Everlasting “To” Everlasting. Two everlastings?

This is how God set it up, God makes a lot of prophecies of what He would do. Then God takes One day, in which all would be fulfilled. God already has it set to take that day out of time (needed to break the Covenant with the Levites or Jewish Priesthood which was an “EVERLASTING COVENANT”

So before this day, God has “Everlasting past” Go back a thousand years, a million years, a billion years, You will not find a beginning. The Beginning spoken of in Genesis is a Similitude and applies to the day of the Cross when the New World begins.

Then God has after this day, “Everlasting Future” So you can go ahead a thousand years, a million years, a billion years, and you will never come to an end. This New World after the day of the Cross is “World without end.”

Now the day of the Cross, Which started at Sunset when the Last Supper began, and ended at Sunset just after Jesus was put in the Sepulchre is Called “FOR EVER”, So that the day of the Cross and Everlasting Future is called “For ever and ever.”

The day of the Cross, Jesus is in Hell, when all Scripture is fulfilled. So Jesus with all the Jew’s iniquity, all Christian’s iniquity, all Moslem’s Iniquity, and all the rest of the People’s Iniquity was in HELL FOR EVER.

The Birth of the Body of Christ was born the day of the Cross. With mankind in that Body.

Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Jesus given the Heathen also, they are also in the Body of Christ by God’s word.

Psalms 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Zion is just outside Jerusalem’s wall, it was the Castle of Zion where David dwelt, it was destroyed when Jerusalem was broken down. What we now call Mount Calvary or Golgotha.

Job 3:3 Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
4 Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
5 Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
6 As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.

So this day, seen as “For ever” is taken out of time, so it can be as a day, a week, a thousand years, it can fulfill any time period God used in the prophecy, it is a space between Everlasting past, and Everlasting future.

Jesus said (God speaking through Jesus) Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise another, not built with hands. The Temple is the Priesthood. The priest seen as stones thrown down. Taking the day out of time, destroyed the temple, and in three day God raised up Jesus as High Priest. Or Jesus is our Temple wherein we worship God.

Jesus said if the Disciples were to hold their peace, (Priests telling Jesus to quiet the Disciples as He rode into Jerusalem on what is called Palm Sunday, or the Sunday before Easter.) The stones would cry out. The day of the Cross the Disciples did hold their peace, and the Stones (Priests) Cried out “Crucify Him.”

God made the day of the Cross as 7 days, only the day of the Cross will fit this verse, and all prophecies are for the day of the Cross.

Isaiah 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

God does this by making the day seen as three different pictures. First seen as 4 6-hour periods seen as 4 beasts with 6-wings in the Book of Revelation, Second looked at as 2 12-hour period seen as 2 witnesses, Third seen as 1 24-hour period seen as 24 Elders in Revelation. This is to Double twice which God uses to ESTABLISH His Words.

Genesis 41:32 And for that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

God uses the words “TWO OR THREE” for the things of the day of the Cross, or seen two times, then as a third witness bringing it to pass.

So it is not two and it is not Three, but always seen as “TWO OR THREE” You can put something before you, it can not be “Two or three” but it has to be one or the other. But God’s word in these cases can be seen as either at the same time.

It can be seen as His spoken words, Or seen as His spoken words with fulfillment.

So Sunset to Midnight is the first day. They are all the Sevens in the Book of Revelation, they are also the Creation story. Let there be light as Jesus is pouring out the Light to the Disciples at the Last Supper. I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, In My Father’s House are many mansions, Etc as the Light is poured out.

Jesus has told them He goes to prepare a place for them, So the Rider on the White Hose goes forth conquering and to conquer, as Jesus will defeat Sin, death and hell this day. The White Horse coming in Clouds is Jesus taking sin during this time period.

Isaiah 44:22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

At Midnight, God has placed all iniquity on Jesus, He is spiritually dead as is anyone with iniquity, So the Second day from Midnight to sunrise is a Similitude for dead or in Hell. The Second physical day is a future similitude for what was fulfilled the day of the Cross.

The third day which is Sunrise to noon. “With His stripes we are healed.” or now Spiritually risen from the Dead. Spiritually alive by being healed, So the Third physical day, is a future similitude for what was fulfilled the day of the Cross.

This goes on and on. Every prophecy was fulfilled:

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

God said He would make an end of sin, Bring in everlasting righteousness, which is done the day of the Cross, the SEAL in this verse kept the Disciples, and Paul, Even Jesus Himself from seeing God did this, The seventy weeks is a diversion, As this is One day, the days are shortened. Daniel’s vision of the Evening and morning was for many days, in this case as 70 weeks.

Sunset to Midnight, is Old Heaven, Midnight to Sunrise is Old Earth, When God starts to shorten the day back to one day, the first two 6-hour periods are removed, or Heaven and Earth flee from His Face, The Third beast with 6-wings has the Face of a Man, this is the Face they flee from.

Sunrise to noon is New Earth, Noon to Sunset is New Heaven.

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

So the day of the Cross, Heaven and earth do pass with the Similitudes God uses. Every one of them.

John 19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

Jesus is fulfilling all of the prophecies, ALL OF THEM. He has just to drink of the Fruit of the Vine, new with them in the Kingdom, which is then. (VINEgar will suffice.) And allow Himself to die.



29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

It is Finished.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

This is the Beginning seen in Genesis, The Old World had no beginning, New world has no end. This is when John 1:1 applies, The day of the Cross, Jesus who is David’s physical Child raise or accepted by God as His Own, is AS GOD, He can save Himself or the World. Because He will be dead part of the day, He is also seen as the Angel of the Lord:

Zechariah 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

Because of sin, God had to turn His back, And then Jesus AS GOD this day, fulfills the Prophecy, bringing in, or seen in similitude as Creating the world.

So the day of the Cross, Not in everlasting past, Not in everlasting future, but this space made between the two, Jesus is AS GOD.

Psalms 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Everything has to be fulfilled, then all made truth together, So the New World is established as truth when all is fulfilled or the Mountains now are brought forth. Notice ONLY during this SPACE is He seen AS GOD.

So Jesus was in Hell “FOR EVER” And hell ended the third day.

Zechariah 9:11 As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

And what the Bible shows, So does the Quran, But God hides it. And God hid it in the Quran also, So seek with your whole heart. A little hint, If part of your heart is being used for Hate, You are not seeking Allah with your whole heart are you?

Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.



Spiritletter

God had the Monopoly on Salvation, and using Jesus Christ He saved all mankind. You do not have to believe, be good or anything else, all are saved by the Grace of God, and He is more then able to deal with each of us when we go to Heaven when this earthly body is shed. But we all get to live with our memories of what we did no earth, So be kind to yourself and do not hurt others, You will have Eternity to regret it.

Ken

[spiritletter]

Ken: that's a nice vision. That means we are responsible for what we do, and we have to live with the consequences. Many of us already do that.