American Heritage Dictionary
mo·ral·i·ty
1.) The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.
2.) A system of ideas of right and wrong conduct: religious morality; Christian morality.
WordNet
morality
noun
1.) concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct [ant: immorality]
2.) motivation based on ideas of right and wrong [syn: ethical motive]
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That said, morality seems to be the attribution/judgement of things and people as 'good' and 'evil/bad'.
Was not, according to the mythology, the first 'sin' disobedience in 'consuming' the (fruits of the tree of the) "Knowledge of Good and Evil" to "Be like us" ('God')?
Is not the practice of those 'ill gotten gains' a sin?
Is this 'judgement' of 'god's' creation an abominable act of Pride? Another 'sin'? After all, who are we to sit in judgement of god's creation?
"Vanity, vanity.."
It would seem that Xtians especially would avoid being judgemental on these grounds, yet, it often seems that quite the opposite is true.
Generally, it appears that hypocrisy only hurts the hypocrite.
Is Morality not a Sin?
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Greatest I Am
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Post #11
Nameless
How can you say that knowledge is prohibited when it is all around us?
How can it be ignored? Impossible. God for His good reasons has left it here for us to gorge on. We all eat of it. As we should.
I do not create God in my image. I recognize that I have some of the same attributes of God but just a minute version. If God made me in His image then I must have some of His attributes. If not whose attributes am I to have, a dogs, a cats? Allow me and yourself these attributes otherwise provide the model we are to follow.
“ There is nothing that can be 'dithered out' about 'god'.”
Then why are we here? Why do we read the Bible? Why search?
You make many references to pride. I understand that it can be negative but you are forgetting that like all else you can name, it has a positive nature as well. Do not throw out the baby with the bath water. Pride drives us to do better as well as pride in our children as we try to bring them up in a good way. Should we take pride in their as well as our accomplishments. Yes. The negative aspect of pride is thinking the job is finished.
This speaks to aptitudes. If I did not have the aptitude I have I would not likely have had my short moment with the Godhead. This was internally generated. Look and ye shall find. My aptitude is what allowed my to look as hard as I did. I will gladly live with my God given aptitude even if some see it as negative. It after all is what revealed the truth of God’s reality to me.
“And part of that Perfection is people judging that Perfection as good and judging that Perfection as evil according to our nature, also Perfect. So, your so called 'evil' is as Perfect as your 'good'. Then what would be to point of the whole game of 'judging', but for ego strokes, Pride?”
Judging is what brings us more in tune with God.
If God were displeased with Eve in the beginning then I am sure He would have ended a fruitless experiment at that time when He only had to adjust two. He would not accumulate His mistakes and have to adjust many latter. In this there would be no profit. Thos e who read literally point to the flood as God adjusting the millions with death. Notice though that we are exactly the same after this genocidal effort.
No flood. No adjustment required thanks.
“ Truth is not 'comfortable', perhaps that is enough reason for you to 'judge it as 'evil'?”
Where did I judge truth as evil?
Truth is very comfortable if it agrees with what I think. It is when it does not that it is uncomfortable. We all have some of each in our thinking. We hang on to our mistaken thinking just as hard as our right thinking. Confirmation from a trusted source brings tears of joy when we are right and tears of unhappiness and shame when we are wrong.
“You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute.”
Where am I supposed to get support that has not been rendered by another human and why would you believe him any more than me?
“You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute.”
Now it is you that lies. Your laughter and labels and names refute my words without enlightening me. Critics usually give reasons for their stance. Not you though.
One never knows where a bit of enlightenment may come. This is why I have bothered with you so far. I also try to help anyone that I can to a certain point. You included but I must tell you that you have not to date earned much of anything.
This will not change if I do not get to see what you think as different to what I say.
The easiest thing to do is criticize.
Much harder to show why that criticism refutes the speaker.
Try it and we may make progress. Stop hiding.
Regards
DL
How can you say that knowledge is prohibited when it is all around us?
How can it be ignored? Impossible. God for His good reasons has left it here for us to gorge on. We all eat of it. As we should.
I do not create God in my image. I recognize that I have some of the same attributes of God but just a minute version. If God made me in His image then I must have some of His attributes. If not whose attributes am I to have, a dogs, a cats? Allow me and yourself these attributes otherwise provide the model we are to follow.
“ There is nothing that can be 'dithered out' about 'god'.”
Then why are we here? Why do we read the Bible? Why search?
You make many references to pride. I understand that it can be negative but you are forgetting that like all else you can name, it has a positive nature as well. Do not throw out the baby with the bath water. Pride drives us to do better as well as pride in our children as we try to bring them up in a good way. Should we take pride in their as well as our accomplishments. Yes. The negative aspect of pride is thinking the job is finished.
This speaks to aptitudes. If I did not have the aptitude I have I would not likely have had my short moment with the Godhead. This was internally generated. Look and ye shall find. My aptitude is what allowed my to look as hard as I did. I will gladly live with my God given aptitude even if some see it as negative. It after all is what revealed the truth of God’s reality to me.
“And part of that Perfection is people judging that Perfection as good and judging that Perfection as evil according to our nature, also Perfect. So, your so called 'evil' is as Perfect as your 'good'. Then what would be to point of the whole game of 'judging', but for ego strokes, Pride?”
Judging is what brings us more in tune with God.
If God were displeased with Eve in the beginning then I am sure He would have ended a fruitless experiment at that time when He only had to adjust two. He would not accumulate His mistakes and have to adjust many latter. In this there would be no profit. Thos e who read literally point to the flood as God adjusting the millions with death. Notice though that we are exactly the same after this genocidal effort.
No flood. No adjustment required thanks.
“ Truth is not 'comfortable', perhaps that is enough reason for you to 'judge it as 'evil'?”
Where did I judge truth as evil?
Truth is very comfortable if it agrees with what I think. It is when it does not that it is uncomfortable. We all have some of each in our thinking. We hang on to our mistaken thinking just as hard as our right thinking. Confirmation from a trusted source brings tears of joy when we are right and tears of unhappiness and shame when we are wrong.
“You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute.”
Where am I supposed to get support that has not been rendered by another human and why would you believe him any more than me?
“You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute.”
Now it is you that lies. Your laughter and labels and names refute my words without enlightening me. Critics usually give reasons for their stance. Not you though.
One never knows where a bit of enlightenment may come. This is why I have bothered with you so far. I also try to help anyone that I can to a certain point. You included but I must tell you that you have not to date earned much of anything.
This will not change if I do not get to see what you think as different to what I say.
The easiest thing to do is criticize.
Much harder to show why that criticism refutes the speaker.
Try it and we may make progress. Stop hiding.
Regards
DL
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Nameless
Post #12
Did you read the OP? I am referring to the biblical story as earlier mentioned. That is the context of this discussion.Greatest I Am wrote:Nameless
How can you say that knowledge is prohibited when it is all around us?
Before we go wandering off onto the mist, let me focus us here. The only 'knowledge' to which I refer is the 'knowledge' acquired from disobeying god and stealing the fruit of the 'tree'.. the 'Knowledge of 'Good and 'Evil', which is sinful to exercise or posess...How can it be ignored? Impossible.
You make excuses for your 'sinning'..
No, we stole it. Are you pulling my leg here? Are you serious? Have you ever read the bible? Are you supposed to be a Xtian?God for His good reasons has left it here for us to gorge on.
Some don't. 'Good and evil' do not exist in my world, and I do not 'judge' god's creation. When I see 'Pride' rear it's ugly head, I decapitate it immediately. Constant vigilance is required.We all eat of it.
"Get thee behind me, satan."As we should.
THAT is creating god in your image. Exactly.I do not create God in my image. I recognize that I have some of the same attributes of God but just a minute version.
Vain and prideful.. What makes you think, in the first place, that 'god' makes you in 'his' image? Is that a 'rule'? Are you Xtian after all? It is simply some words from a book tha, once vainly 'believed' have been the cause of much 'weeping and gnashing of teeth!"If God made me in His image then I must have some of His attributes.
Perhaps.. your's?If not whose attributes am I to have, a dogs, a cats?
I just did. You are your attributes, I am mine, a rock is a rock's and all together is the perfection of the tapestry of existence.Allow me and yourself these attributes otherwise provide the model we are to follow.
Direction. Most people are programed to 'seek 'Truth/Reality'. It is by us that god can know 'Itself'.“ There is nothing that can be 'dithered out' about 'god'.”
Then why are we here? Why do we read the Bible? Why search?
Meister Eckhart; " God cannot know himself without me."
I am not judging it as negative or positive (those 'forbidden fruits, again), I am pointing that it is a sin, probably the only real one, as it 'distances' you from 'god'. Perhaps god makes prideful people so he 'can' experience himself from a 'distance', which cannot be done without 'existence'.You make many references to pride. I understand that it can be negative but you are forgetting that like all else you can name, it has a positive nature as well.
You take credit for that which is not your doing. Yeah, that is a 'positive, uplifting' thing. They keep calling call it plagiarism, though.. theft..Do not throw out the baby with the bath water. Pride drives us to do better as well as pride in our children as we try to bring them up in a good way. Should we take pride in their as well as our accomplishments. Yes. The negative aspect of pride is thinking the job is finished.
If god did not grace you with that moment.. create you in that moment with that something special. You even take credit for that! I am just showing your 'enemy' to you. It is disturbing because it is YOU!This speaks to aptitudes. If I did not have the aptitude I have I would not likely have had my short moment with the Godhead.
God alone reveals and hides.It after all is what revealed the truth of God’s reality to me.
With all respect, I can't take much more of this insanity.Judging is what brings us more in tune with God.
It is your prideful judgement that is behind most of the horrors committed one upon the other on this planet.
You are defending your sinful Pride too intensely. It is obviously not for you to get past the sin (which your Jesus commanded you to do), yet. Perhaps someday.. or not.. As god creates you is fine for me. I am just made to share what I am sharing for whatever reason, perhaps someone reading this and not participating? Perhaps someone finding it a hundred years from now and it might be just the thing he needs? Whatever..
Pride=belief.. judgement..
"I judge you as not as good (worthy to possess this nice car) as I, so, bye bye! BLAM!!!"
You judged gods 'truthful' prohibition as 'evil' and that it is 'good' to disobey his prohibition. I think that suffices to illustrate my point.Where did I judge truth as evil?
Beyond pathetic and shallow, there is no 'Truth' that "agrees with what you think".Truth is very comfortable if it agrees with what I think.
And that would be al the time. But, as you tend to avoid the discomfort, you also avoid Truth. It is certainly not for everyone. No problem there either.It is when it does not that it is uncomfortable.
I don't seek 'celebrity endorcements, just a bit of a logical foundation would work. Notice I didn't just say that 'morality is a sin' and leave it at that" I supported my 'claim' with enough evidence for an observer to examine and come to their own understandings. Supportive logic, refferences, experience, etc.. Something that doesn't leave that poor lonely assertion out there in the wind to dry! If you are simply repeating something that you have read and 'believe' without understanding the logic, or without personal experience, then it stands to reason why you would be unable to support those assertions, and get into these 'fixes'! Belief is fine, but there is no place for 'belief' in a rational, logical discussion, unless on the level with other 'believers'. The basic idea of this whole forum, 'debating belief' is an error that bears ill fruit. It can certainly be intense, passionate, frustrating, .. in other words, 'entertaining', but 'belief' has no truck with logic, or experience.“You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute.”
Where am I supposed to get support that has not been rendered by another human and why would you believe him any more than me?
My dear Greatest, Nowhere here have I laughed at you, nor have I called you names nor labeled you. Show me where? If I call you ignorant, it is because not knowing something is ignorance. I am ignorant of much. It is not a bad place to be, it allows us to learn. Pride HATES to be accused if being 'ignorant'. Perhaps that is why you have taken it that way, if that is what you are talking about. If you refer to my calling your Pride out on the carpet, that is a labor of love, my friend! It, your sin, is harming you. I see it, god sees it, and now is pointing it out to you. Compassion, love...“You would have to make a 'supported claim' before I would have anything to refute.”
Now it is you that lies. Your laughter and labels and names refute my words without enlightening me.
I do battle with this pride all the time, every day of my life. Nothing knows our weaknesses to exploit like our egoic pride! And it does. Some people think that once winning a battle with Pride, the war has been fought and won. As they now calmly and self riteously sink deep into the delusions of a believed and conquering Pride.
I have supported my 'post', read the thread from the beginning, carefully, like you WANTED TO UNDERSTAND what I have been saying. Understanding is not = to accepting, just understanding what you, perhaps, don't accept. Now, at least, you'd know why.Critics usually give reasons for their stance. Not you though.
I think that your pride considers you, with your little flash, to be in a position to now 'enlighten' others. I suggest that you "remove the beam from your own eye, before worrying about the speck in the eye of others." Conquer your own ego and sin and perhaps then you will have something, some experience, of true valus to share. That 'flash' escaped into your awareness through the tightly fastened shutters of your Pride!One never knows where a bit of enlightenment may come. This is why I have bothered with you so far. I also try to help anyone that I can to a certain point.
'Knowledge', 'Truth', 'Reality' refute that which is false. Do the work yourself. The journey is solitary and cannot be given like a tenth grade 'education'.Much harder to show why that criticism refutes the speaker.
I am pointing in the 'correct' direction.. What you do is not up to me.
Peace
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Greatest I Am
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Post #13
Nameless
You are making me laugh now. Thanks. I seldom laugh when in debate mode.
Quote:
We all eat of it.
“Some don't. 'Good and evil' do not exist in my world, and I do not 'judge' god's creation. When I see 'Pride' rear it's ugly head, I decapitate it immediately. Constant vigilance is required.”
You are contradicting yourself.
You have done a whole lot of judging since we started this.
How else would you know when anything rears it’s ugly head. Was your criticism not a judgment. Are you not judging when you decide that you see pride. Give your head a shake.
“Get thee behind me, Satan."
Do I detect another judgment?
“THAT is creating god in your image. Exactly.“
Ye of little understanding. Check out this equation.
Man = the image of God.
God = the image of man.
We are supposed to look alike.
“Vain and prideful.”
For someone who does not judge you certainly label me often.
“ You are your attributes, I am mine,”
If you are created in the image of God then yours must resemble God’s or are you somehow unique?
“Direction. Most people are programmed to 'seek 'Truth/Reality'. It is by us that god can know 'Itself'.
Meister Eckhart; " God cannot know himself without me."
This would mean that God had to wait for man to be before He could know Himself.
A strange concept. Even as I say that He justifies us and we justify Him. A slightly different thing.
If God came first then He could know Himself without man.
“I am not judging it as negative or positive (those 'forbidden fruits, again), I am pointing that it is a sin”
If you cannot see yourself judging here, I will soon loose respect for your thinking ability.
“It is disturbing because it is YOU!”
Another judgment, or is it my wrong interpretation again.
“You judged gods 'truthful' prohibition as 'evil' and that it is 'good' to disobey his prohibition. I think that suffices to illustrate my point.”
Judging again eh.
If you have faith in God then you must believe that He creates souls Perfect. How then can Eve, a Perfect soul make a mistake or imperfect choice?
“ Beyond pathetic and shallow, there is no 'Truth' that "agrees with what you think".
I will ignore this judgment on your part.
“I am ignorant of much. It is not a bad place to be, it allows us to learn. “
I thought that we were not to look for knowledge?
“ I do battle with this pride all the time, every day of my life.”
You are loosing or not fighting very hard.
“I am pointing in the 'correct' direction.”
Is this another judgment on your part. Is this not vanity to think that you know the right direction. Exactly what you accuse me of.
So far you have been good for a laugh. You have contributed nothing else of value as you do what you accuse me of doing. At least I include information showing why I think the way I do . You do not.
Please get better at debate or few here will bother with you.
I enjoyed the chuckle but even I have finite patience with fools.
Regards
DL
You are making me laugh now. Thanks. I seldom laugh when in debate mode.
Quote:
We all eat of it.
“Some don't. 'Good and evil' do not exist in my world, and I do not 'judge' god's creation. When I see 'Pride' rear it's ugly head, I decapitate it immediately. Constant vigilance is required.”
You are contradicting yourself.
You have done a whole lot of judging since we started this.
How else would you know when anything rears it’s ugly head. Was your criticism not a judgment. Are you not judging when you decide that you see pride. Give your head a shake.
“Get thee behind me, Satan."
Do I detect another judgment?
“THAT is creating god in your image. Exactly.“
Ye of little understanding. Check out this equation.
Man = the image of God.
God = the image of man.
We are supposed to look alike.
“Vain and prideful.”
For someone who does not judge you certainly label me often.
“ You are your attributes, I am mine,”
If you are created in the image of God then yours must resemble God’s or are you somehow unique?
“Direction. Most people are programmed to 'seek 'Truth/Reality'. It is by us that god can know 'Itself'.
Meister Eckhart; " God cannot know himself without me."
This would mean that God had to wait for man to be before He could know Himself.
A strange concept. Even as I say that He justifies us and we justify Him. A slightly different thing.
If God came first then He could know Himself without man.
“I am not judging it as negative or positive (those 'forbidden fruits, again), I am pointing that it is a sin”
If you cannot see yourself judging here, I will soon loose respect for your thinking ability.
“It is disturbing because it is YOU!”
Another judgment, or is it my wrong interpretation again.
“You judged gods 'truthful' prohibition as 'evil' and that it is 'good' to disobey his prohibition. I think that suffices to illustrate my point.”
Judging again eh.
If you have faith in God then you must believe that He creates souls Perfect. How then can Eve, a Perfect soul make a mistake or imperfect choice?
“ Beyond pathetic and shallow, there is no 'Truth' that "agrees with what you think".
I will ignore this judgment on your part.
“I am ignorant of much. It is not a bad place to be, it allows us to learn. “
I thought that we were not to look for knowledge?
“ I do battle with this pride all the time, every day of my life.”
You are loosing or not fighting very hard.
“I am pointing in the 'correct' direction.”
Is this another judgment on your part. Is this not vanity to think that you know the right direction. Exactly what you accuse me of.
So far you have been good for a laugh. You have contributed nothing else of value as you do what you accuse me of doing. At least I include information showing why I think the way I do . You do not.
Please get better at debate or few here will bother with you.
I enjoyed the chuckle but even I have finite patience with fools.
Regards
DL
