What if I was killed?

[scorpia]

Come up with your own method; burnt in lava slowly and painfully, drowned, slammed in the head, strangled, whatever.

But say if I was killed by someone, and I was a murder victim,

Does this make me innocent?

[scorpia]

In other words, the Pharisee's way of salvation is to follow all those weird rules in the Old Testament, but he's here to tell you that those rules don't mean anything.

No, Jesus was there to be the sacrifice. So while there was no "pigeon sacrifice", yes, he was not there to abolish the laws. "Love thy God and thy neighbour" is what the OT laws hang upon after all.

No pigeon sacrifice is needed, no ablutions are required. And, by extension, no acts at all are required for salvation -- the burden shall be light. The beauty of this is that True Christians are willing to take on the burden even without this requirement. When James speaks of a dead faith, he does not mean that the lack of works will disqualify you from Heaven, he means that the fruits of a dead faith are no works.

Demons believe in God. They do not get into heaven.

[Goat]

In other words, the Pharisee's way of salvation is to follow all those weird rules in the Old Testament, but he's here to tell you that those rules don't mean anything.

No, Jesus was there to be the sacrifice. So while there was no "pigeon sacrifice", yes, he was not there to abolish the laws. "Love thy God and thy neighbour" is what the OT laws hang upon after all.

No pigeon sacrifice is needed, no ablutions are required. And, by extension, no acts at all are required for salvation -- the burden shall be light. The beauty of this is that True Christians are willing to take on the burden even without this requirement. When James speaks of a dead faith, he does not mean that the lack of works will disqualify you from Heaven, he means that the fruits of a dead faith are no works.

Demons believe in God. They do not get into heaven.

Never met a demon.

And, much of the Philosphy about religion that is attributed to Jesus is straight from the Pharisee's.

[ST88]

In other words, the Pharisee's way of salvation is to follow all those weird rules in the Old Testament, but he's here to tell you that those rules don't mean anything.

No, Jesus was there to be the sacrifice. So while there was no "pigeon sacrifice", yes, he was not there to abolish the laws. "Love thy God and thy neighbour" is what the OT laws hang upon after all.

Hate to disagree with a Christian about Christianity, but Jesus's sacrifice was only part of his purpose. You think he just showed up and asked to be killed? He had a message, and that message was that putting God in your hearts is enough for you to have happiness in this life and the next. His sacrifice was just a dramatic demonstration of love, sort of to put an exclamation point on his sermonizing. He was indeed there to abolish the diet restrictions, the offerings, and all that mindless ritual crap and replace it with a doctrine of smiling at everyone. He spouted off about that stuff for at least 400-500 pages in my NSV bible.

No pigeon sacrifice is needed, no ablutions are required. And, by extension, no acts at all are required for salvation -- the burden shall be light. The beauty of this is that True Christians are willing to take on the burden even without this requirement. When James speaks of a dead faith, he does not mean that the lack of works will disqualify you from Heaven, he means that the fruits of a dead faith are no works.

Demons believe in God. They do not get into heaven.

Demons are not people; as far as I can recall, they are fallen angels, who were -- please correct my Theognomy -- either dead people who rose as angels or were created as angels and displeased the Master.

[Cathar1950]

Demons are not people

I am almost picturing a Geico Neanderthal commercial here.

Come up with your own method; burnt in lava slowly and painfully, drowned, slammed in the head, strangled, whatever.

But say if I was killed by someone, and I was a murder victim,

Does this make me innocent?

What did you eat before you went to bed?

[scorpia]

Hate to disagree with a Christian about Christianity,

Nah, for all I know you know more than me. Besides I don't consider myself a Christian

but Jesus's sacrifice was only part of his purpose. You think he just showed up and asked to be killed? He had a message, and that message was that putting God in your hearts

And just what is putting God in your heart mean?

is enough for you to have happiness in this life and the next. His sacrifice was just a dramatic demonstration of love, sort of to put an exclamation point on his sermonizing. He was indeed there to abolish the diet restrictions, the offerings, and all that mindless ritual crap and replace it with a doctrine of smiling at everyone. He spouted off about that stuff for at least 400-500 pages in my NSV bible.

I would say more liking fixing up the priorities.

Eg. Luke 11: 42 "Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You shouldhave practiced the latter without leaving the former undone."

Then again Mark 10: 5 "It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law."

So maybe you are right. Or maybe it's something in between.

Demons are not people; as far as I can recall, they are fallen angels, who were -- please correct my Theognomy -- either dead people who rose as angels or were created as angels and displeased the Master.

Does it matter if they aren't people? Point being that simply believing in God doesn't get one into heaven. If you want another example take the pharisees or those people Jesus preached against. They believed in God. And what about Abraham, he lived before Jesus but he's going to heaven. Yet there were many Isrealites wandering the desert who saw god right in front of them but God was still angry with them.

What did you eat before you went to bed?

Absolutely nothing. I didn't have anything since breakfast thank you.

[Cathar1950]

Come up with your own method; burnt in lava slowly and painfully, drowned, slammed in the head, strangled, whatever...

But say if I was killed by someone, and I was a murder victim,

Well eat something. Don't make me come feed you chicken soup unless your a veggie then tofu or whatever soup. Yucky.
I mean these are not good things to imagine...lol

I think we tend to have a violent desire to punish and blame in our culture even if we blame everyone else. It is not so much the issue of innocence as the lack of justice and the promotion of injustice we need to overcome.
I wonder how man innocent people are in jail do to because of plea bargaining?
Or how many guilty are free?
If you are killed it should be a loss. The world should be a better place because you are here and a worse place when you gone even if it is better when you were here.

[WelshBoy]

Incorrect

James 2 :14-27 for one points out that faith without deeds is useless. If the only requirement was to believe, then demons would be the ones going to heaven

The thief on the cross went to heaven, even though he wasn't REALLY in a position to do any good deeds.

[McCulloch]

The thief on the cross went to heaven, even though he wasn't REALLY in a position to do any good deeds.

He did what he could. He spoke and admitted his faith out loud.

[ST88]

And just what is putting God in your heart mean?

I have no idea. I've always wondered what that meant. But whatever it is, it's an internal, personal action that has to be a decision and that requires no good works.

Demons are not people; as far as I can recall, they are fallen angels, who were -- please correct my Theognomy -- either dead people who rose as angels or were created as angels and displeased the Master.

Does it matter if they aren't people? Point being that simply believing in God doesn't get one into heaven. If you want another example take the pharisees or those people Jesus preached against. They believed in God. And what about Abraham, he lived before Jesus but he's going to heaven. Yet there were many Isrealites wandering the desert who saw god right in front of them but God was still angry with them.

I would say that it does matter if they're people or not. People still have the opportunity to mull over their faith. If you're a demon, the existence of God has already been proven to you, so faith is irrelevant.

1) As far as I can tell, Jesus was angry with the Pharisees not because they believed in God, which they did, but because they were leading their followers astray with insufficient information. 2) Any personanages that came before Jesus were judged differently and separately. 3) God can get angry with someone he loves and still salvate them later

[Confused]

Come up with your own method; burnt in lava slowly and painfully, drowned, slammed in the head, strangled, whatever.

But say if I was killed by someone, and I was a murder victim,

Does this make me innocent?

There are many ways to approach such a simple but complex question.

First, if you died in lava from a volcano eruption, then you weren't murdered.

If you were murdered by someone, you would be a victim by mans law, but not necessarily innocent. Were you murdered by a co-conspirator to a kidnapping or an armed robber?

If you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or saw something you weren't suppose to see and were killed as a result, then yes you are considered innocent by mans law. But that doesn't matter in regards to the laws of God. Even if you were completely innocent before your death, if you didn't live a Christian life and accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, then I will be seeing you in hell.